VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, [5], 6 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 20:47:33 03/24/03 Mon
Author: Cheri
Subject: A New Week. Daily inspirations and horse facts...


[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> Monday's inspiration... -- Cheri, 20:50:58 03/24/03 Mon



GOD'S GIFTS

_________________________

Job 12:7-10 (NRSV)

But ask the animals, and they will teach you;   the birds of the air, and they will tell you;
ask the plants of the earth, and they will teach you;   and the fish of the sea will declare to you.
Who among all these does not know
      that the hand of the LORD has done this? In his hand is the life of every living thing
      and the breath of every human being.

_________________________

It is good to give thanks to the LORD, to sing praises to your name, O Most High; to declare your steadfast love in the morning, and your faithfulness by night.

- Psalm 92:1-2 (NRSV)

_________________________

I recently had foot surgery, after which I was off work for two weeks. I had to lie or sit with my foot elevated all day and all night. Trying to fill the days with activities, I armed myself with books, magazines, videos, and needlework.

The spring weather was beautiful. As I recuperated, I would open my bedroom window and let the breeze blow through the room. My cat would come upstairs and lie in the sun or stare out the window at the birds and animals in the yard. Soon I found myself propped up next to her, enjoying the sun on my face and noticing all the wondrous life happening in my own yard. Instead of spending my days closed up in my room, trying to make time go by as quickly as possible, I relished the opportunity to enjoy the gifts God had put right outside my window.

How many times have I gone about my daily tasks with my head down, rushing to get things done, all the while ignoring the glorious things God has put in my life? In a world moving quickly, it is important to slow down in order to appreciate the precious gifts that God has given.


Prayer: Dear God, help us to notice and appreciate all the beautiful
gifts you have given us and to take the time to share these gifts with others. Amen.

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:
Stop. Look. Appreciate.

-- Kathy S. Gupton (Tennessee, U.S.A.)

PRAYER FOCUS: Those recovering after surgery
_________________________


[ Edit | View ]





[> Monday's horse fact.. -- Cheri, 21:00:46 03/24/03 Mon



Shaping up your overweight horse...


Part 9...


Managing Overweight Horses..


The first step in management of overweight or obese horses is to establish the current body condition score (and, if possible, body weight) and set a goal for weight loss. For example, let's assume that you have a horse with a body condition score of 8 and his ideal score is around 5. Based on height and breed, this horse has an ideal body weight of 450 kg (1,000 pounds). As one unit of body condition is about 20 kg (44 pounds), this horse is overweight by 60 kg (about 130 pounds).

Next, accurately assess the horse's current feeding and exercise program. Although it is common to feed using convenient units such as a "flake" or section of hay and a coffee can full of grain, this system is very inaccurate for assessment of actual feed intake. For example, alfalfa hay weighs more than grass hay per unit volume. Therefore, it is important to weigh amounts fed--you could use kitchen scales. If possible, send a sample of your hay for laboratory analysis. The data will give you a better idea regarding overall nutrient intake.

A few rules of thumb are useful here. Most horses will consume somewhere between 1.5-3% of their body weight per day in feed. For the overweight and "easy keeper" horse, about 1.5% of body weight is a reasonable ballpark figure. About two-thirds of this amount should be in the form of fiber--grass, hay, or other sources of forage and fiber (e.g., hay cubes or beet pulp). Regardless of body condition, fiber always should be the main component of a horse's diet. At the absolute minimum, a horse should eat 1% of his body weight per day in the form of forage and other fiber sources.

So, our fictitious fat horse for the past six months has been receiving 7 kg of grass hay and 3 kg of a typical sweet feed each day that contains added minerals and vitamins. He is ridden two or three times per week, usually 45 to 60 minutes of gentle trail exercise, and has some drylot turnout at other times. The amount of hay fed is appropriate--about 1.4% of his body weight (again, 1% is considered the safe minimum).

The diet is supplying 20.5 Mcal (or 20,000 calories) of digestible energy, which probably is 25% higher than this horse needs even considering activity level (see figures on page 90). This excess energy intake is certainly enough to explain weight gain. Assuming no change in feeding and activity level, we might expect this horse to gain a further 20 kg (or 44 pounds) over the next three months.

Tomorrows fact .. Clearly, this horse needs to go on a diet.


[ Edit | View ]





[> Tuesday's inspiration.. -- Cheri, 20:08:21 03/26/03 Wed



AT ANY MOMENT

_________________________

Proverbs 3:1-12 (NRSV)

My child, do not forget my teaching,
      but let your heart keep my commandments; for length of days and years of life
      and abundant welfare they will give you. Do not let loyalty and faithfulness forsake you;
      bind them around your neck,
   write them on the tablet of your heart.
So you will find favor and good repute
   in the sight of God and of people.
Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
   and do not rely on your own insight.
In all your ways acknowledge him,
   and he will make straight your paths.
Do not be wise in your own eyes;
   fear the LORD, and turn away from evil.
It will be a healing for your flesh
   and a refreshment for your body.
Honor the LORD with your substance
      and with the first fruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty,
      and your vats will be bursting with wine. My child, do not despise the LORD's discipline
      or be weary of his reproof,
for the LORD reproves the one he loves,
      as a father the son in whom he delights.

_________________________

The psalmist wrote, "Hear, O LORD, when I cry aloud, be gracious to me and answer me!"

- Psalm 27:7 (NRSV)

_________________________

OUR twin daughters are just learning to walk and are at a stage where they will come to us and cry to be picked up. Almost immediately after being picked up, they will begin to cry because they want to be set back down. They want us to be available at any moment they might happen to need us, but they want their independence too.

Their desire for independence is a good thing. We want them to grow up and eventually have their own homes. This means they will become more and more independent and need us less and less. But for us, as children of God, our growth increases our dependence. Mature saints are those who realize most deeply their total dependence on God.

Too often we find it easier to trust our own judgment than to admit we need God's help, and we yield control to God reluctantly. But we need God's help all the time, no matter how mature we become.


Prayer: O God, help us to trust in you more than in our own strength
and abilities. Amen.


THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:
Lifelong dependence on God is a good thing.

-- Norman Styers (Oklahoma, U.S.A.)

PRAYER FOCUS: Families with young children
________________________


[ Edit | View ]





[> Tuesday's horse fact... -- Cheri, 20:16:29 03/26/03 Wed




Shaping Up Your Overweight Horse...


Part 10, and end of series...


Clearly, this horse needs to go on a diet. One approach would be to set the energy intake at 70% of his maintenance needs (at the ideal weight of 450 kg or 1,000 pounds) or about 12 Mcal (12,000 calories) per day. However, we must be careful to maintain the intake of other nutrients at the maintenance level. For example, the simplest approach to a reduction in energy intake would be removal of sweet feed from the diet. However, as shown in the figure on page 90, a diet of only grass hay will not provide adequate protein, minerals, or vitamins. The lack of protein will encourage a loss of muscle mass rather than fat. This situation can be remedied by feeding a small amount of a protein/mineral/vitamin supplement.

The second important step in a weight loss program is an increase in energy expenditure through exercise. For several reasons, an increase in activity level will facilitate weight loss and an improvement in body condition. With physical conditioning, there are metabolic adaptations that encourage fat burning. As well, there will be conservation or even an increase in muscle mass. Over a period of weeks, the horse will become more "athletic" in appearance. As lean tissues such as muscle have a higher rate of metabolism than fat tissue, this change in body composition will raise the horse's resting metabolism.

There are two ways to increase activity level. First, you could provide more turnout time, thus allowing the horse more opportunity for voluntary exercise. Regardless of body condition, adequate turnout is important for the horse's overall well-being.

Unfortunately, access to pasture is not an option for overweight horses as you will lose control of calorie intake. So, turnout must be restricted to drylots, at least until the weight problem is under control.

The second option is to increase the amount of formal exercise, such as longeing and riding. Any increase in exercise must be done slowly, probably no more than a 5% increase in duration or intensity every week or so. If the horse is already ridden two to three times per week, one option is to add one or two sessions per week. Alternatively, if time is a limitation, you might consider an increase in exercise intensity--more trotting and, with time, a little canter work.

As mentioned, overweight horses can be more prone to leg injuries, so close monitoring is required, particularly for the first few weeks of the conditioning program.

You also must be realistic in terms of how long it will take for the horse's ideal weight to be attained. Think months rather than weeks!

In the above example, a five- to six-month time frame is reasonable. Your horse will be unhappy for the lack of grain in his diet, and you might bemoan the extra time required for conditioning, but there is no "quick fix" for this problem. Periodic evaluations also are necessary; perhaps you should assess body condition score (and weight) monthly. Adjustments in feeding can be made once the ideal weight/body condition has been reached. For example, an increase in energy intake might be needed. In the long term, it always will be important to adjust feeding in relation to current activity level. If there are periods of reduced exercise (e.g., because of an injury), energy intake must be reduced accordingly.


[ Edit | View ]





[> Wednesday's inspiration.. -- Cheri, 20:25:00 03/26/03 Wed



Psalm 34:6-9

"I cried out to the Lord in my suffering, and He heard me. He set me free from all my fears. For the angel of the Lord guards all who fear Him, and he rescues them. Taste and see that the Lord is good. Oh, the joys of those who trust in Him! Let the Lord's people show Him reverence, for those who honor Him will have all they need."



Joshua 1:9

"I command you-be strong and courageous! Do not be afraid or discouraged. For the LORD your God is with you wherever you go."



Psalm 28:6-8

"Praise the Lord! For He has heard my cry for mercy. The Lord is my strength, my shield from every danger. I trust in Him with all my heart. He helps me, and my heart is filled with joy. I burst out in songs of thanksgiving. The Lord protects His people and gives victory to His anointed king."



Psalm 30:1-5

"I will praise you, Lord, for you have rescued me. You refused to let my enemies triumph over me. O Lord my God, I cried out to you for help, and you restored my health. You brought me up from the grave, O Lord. You kept me from falling into the pit of death. Sing to the Lord, all you godly ones! Praise His holy name. His anger lasts for a moment, but His favor lasts a lifetime! Weeping may go on all night, but joy comes with the morning."


[ Edit | View ]





[> Wednesday's horse fact... -- Cheri, 20:31:18 03/26/03 Wed



Capped Hocks



Capped hock, also known as bursitis of the hock, is a fairly common ailment that affects all breeds and disciplines of horses equally. This is an acquired bursitis of the hock caused by trauma, which can result from a trailer accident, bumping against a stall wall with the hocks, or any other instance where the hock is bumped and aggravated. The condition is typically noticed as a firm swelling at the point of the hock, and if lameness does occur, it's usually mild, but the blemish may be permanent. The swelling can be extensive and accompanied by an edema, depending on the severity of the trauma.


Due to the nature of the disease, the condition tends to recur and become worse every time it occurs if it's not treated aggressively the first time. If accumulation of the fluid is not reduced in a reasonable period of time, then a subcutaneous bursa or "false" bursa will develop. At this point, once the fluid accumulation has been there for a long period of time, the lining of the subcutaneous sac of the bursa becomes more or less a permanent fixture.


In order to avoid this permanent disfiguration, aggressive treatment should be sought in the acute phase, or the first time a cap-
ped hock is diagnosed.


The treatment consists mainly of anti-inflammatory medication and rest. An injection of corticosteroids to reduce the swelling might also be of benefit at that time. Part of the corticoid solution should be injected into the cavity, and part into the surrounding tissue after the synovial content of the bursa is withdrawn. If necessary, these injections may be repeated several times a week. A pressure bandage should also be used at the point of the hock whenever possible. However, care must be taken when applying the bandage over this difficult area in order to avoid skin sloughing over the Achilles tendon. By treating the capped hock in the acute phase, you avoid the formation of a subcutaneous bursa, which will help prevent disfiguration of the hock.


However, if the condition becomes chronic, it will be very difficult to make the leg look normal. At this point, the only effective treatment is to create drainage. This is usually done with a penrose drain, or some other sort of drain, that is put in the affected area so that second intention healing can occur, which is healing by granulation tissue. When you put a drain in the sac, the sac deflates and that provides time for the skin to reattach in a normal fashion in the subcutaneous area. The skin is then allowed to reattach to the tissue underneath the capped hock, and the space created by the pseudo bursa is eliminated.


If the injury to the hock occurs only once, and the case is treated before extensive fibrosis occurs, the results are reasonably good. However, if the injury is repeated several times, which happens in many cases, and extensive fibrous tissue results, little can be done to correct it. At this point, surgery is an option to remove excess fibrous tissue. However, a larger blemish might be the end result.


It should also be noted that in the acute phase, the simple capped hock should be differentiated from an infectious process that might be associated with a capped hock, which is another issue altogether. For this reason, the horse should be seen by a qualified veterinarian to determine if it's a simple capped hock or a septic (infectious) capped hock, and proper treatment should follow.


[ Edit | View ]





[> Thursday's inspiration.. -- Cheri, 18:33:43 03/27/03 Thu



A CERTAIN FUTURE

_________________________

2 Corinthians 4:7-17 (NRSV)

But we have this treasure in clay jars, so that it may be made clear that this extraordinary power belongs to God and does not come from us. We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be made visible in our bodies. For while we live, we are always being given up to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus may be made visible in our mortal flesh. So death is at work in us, but life in you.


But just as we have the same spirit of faith that is in accordance with scripture--"I believed, and so I spoke"--we also believe, and so we speak, because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus, and will bring us with you into his presence. Yes, everything is for your sake, so that grace, as it extends to more and more people, may increase thanksgiving, to the glory of God. So we do not lose heart. Even though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed day by day. For this slight momentary affliction is preparing us for an eternal weight of glory beyond all measure.

_________________________

Even though our outer nature is wasting away, our inner nature is being renewed day by day.

- 2 Corinthians 4:16 (NRSV)

_________________________

BILL has cancer. Keep us in your prayers." The prayer chain was activated immediately. That was more than a year ago. With chemotherapy, the tumors were reduced, but after a while they began to grow again.

Bill's awareness of God's love never wavered. Bill retired from full-time ministry when he learned of the cancer, but he continued to spread the good news of the gospel, the message of salvation and hope. Bill welcomed opportunities to preach and teach. He gave time and energy to a prison ministry and to other ministries of the church.

Bill lost his battle with cancer. But Bill's battle with the disease never left him uncertain about his future as a child of God. Through Bill, we have learned that God is there for us when disease attacks the body, when we wrestle with grief, and when we cry out in anger, frustration, and pain.


Prayer: Thank you, God, that because you are with us and give us
hope, we can serve you even in difficult times. Amen.

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:
Living each day to the fullest is an affirmation of our faith.

-- Dinah Tanner (Texas, U.S.A.)

PRAYER FOCUS: Those living with serious illnesses
_________________________


[ Edit | View ]





[> Thursday's horse fact... -- Cheri, 18:44:26 03/27/03 Thu




Arab Racing...


The Arabian horse originated from the Arabian Peninsula where it has been raced for centuries. This breed is smaller in size and more one paced than the
Thoroughbred. It is very attractive and intelligent, generally noted for its ability to endure sustained effort over long distances. In January 2000 the Abu Dhabi one-day 100 mile race was won by a 10 year old Purebred Arab gelding, Ben Saloe, at an astonishing average speed of 12.71 mph!

The Arabian has been in Britain since the Romans conquered our shores. They raced them at Netherby (Yorkshire) long before the Thoroughbred was produced. James I kept Arabians, including the famous Markham Arabian, at Newmarket where he instituted a kind of steeplechase on Newmarket Heath. The Parliamentarians confiscated his Stud in 1648 and his horses were dispersed - most being lost from record.

The Darley Arabian, the Godolphin Arabian and the Byerly Turk from the 18th Century were to become the progenerators of the British Thoroughbred stock. Weatherby's Stud Book began in 1791 based on these three Arabians. Prior to this, the Jockey Club was founded in 1752.

By 1885 the speedy Thoroughbred had evolved to be so fast that the Purebred Arabian was no longer a match for it even when given a large allowance. So the racing of this smaller breed on official tracks was stopped. It was not until 1978 that they were returned to the tracks once more. A few racing enthusiasts from the Arab Horse Society, led by Ann Unwin, gained permission from the Jockey Club to organise Amateur flat races. Since then, for the past 22 seasons, the sport has flourished under Jockey Club Rules, on official courses and has grown to be the most active of its kind in Europe.


[ Edit | View ]





[> Friday's inspiration... -- Cheri, 05:19:33 03/29/03 Sat




WONDERFULLY MADE

_________________________

Psalm 139:13-18 (NRSV)

For it was you who formed my inward parts;   you knit me together in my mother's womb.
I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.   Wonderful are your works; that I know very well.
My frame was not hidden from you,
   when I was being made in secret,
      intricately woven in the depths of the earth. Your eyes beheld my unformed substance.
      In your book were written all the days that were formed for me,   when none of them as yet existed.
How weighty to me are your thoughts, O God!   How vast is the sum of them!
I try to count them--they are more than the sand;   I come to the end--I am still with you.

_________________________

O LORD, . . . I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.

- Psalm 139:1, 14 (NRSV)

_________________________

I'VE read this passage many times before, but recently it took on a more personal meaning. During our weekly Bible study, I had a sudden revelation. Looking around the room I realized there are two kinds of people in this world: wrinkled and polished. I am wrinkled - wrinkled from head to toe. And I wasn't sure if I liked this about myself.

My friends are godly, intelligent, and wise women who have a sense of style and the confidence to display it. But no matter how I try to "fit" in, I do not have a consistent style. I'm not polished but wrinkled. I am short, my hair is coarse and curly, and I am somewhat overweight. Even if I starched my clothes, straightened my hair, and stood all day, I would still be wrinkled.

Feeling a little on the outside of my small circle of friends, I heard God say softly in my heart, "Queenie, I made you; I love you, and it pleases me that you are who you are. For every smooth person there is a wrinkled person; you can learn from one another."
When I spoke of my revelation to my buddies, I didn't have to tell them which one I am; they knew. Like God, they love me just the way I was wonderfully made.


Prayer: O God, in your sovereign wisdom you made us just the way we
are - and we please you by being ourselves. Teach us to love others and ourselves. Amen.

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:
God proclaims each one of us "wonderfully made."

-- Queenie Bernard (Georgia, U.S.A.)

PRAYER FOCUS: To affirm each one I meet as wonderful
_________________________


[ Edit | View ]





[> Friday's horse fact... -- Cheri, 05:37:44 03/29/03 Sat




CONDITIONS ASSOCIATED WITH HIGH RISK NEWBORN FOALS
MATERNAL CONDITIONS:

Purulent vaginal discharge Fever
Hydrops allantois General anesthesia
Colic surgery Endotoxemia
Excessive medication History of previous abnormal foal
Premature lactation Poor nutritional status
Prolonged transport prior to foaling

CONDITIONS OF LABOR OR DELIVERY:

Premature parturition Abnormally long gestation
Prolonged labor Induction of labor
Dystocia Early umbilical cord rupture
C-section

NEONATAL CONDITIONS:

Meconium staining Placental abnormalities
Placentitis Twins
Orphan Inadequate colostral intake\
Immaturity/prematurity Exposure to infectious disease
Trauma

SPECIFIC DISEASES OF THE EQUINE NEONATE

It should be obvious to you that we can not possibly go every disease condition which constitutes an emergency in the time allotted to us. It is likely that the physical abnormalities associated with trauma constitute an emergency and need not be covered, except your initial management until the vet arrives.

Certainly there are going to be conditions which arise in which nothing can be done, except euthanasia. This is something veterinarians deal with on a day to day basis, and not something we take lightly. I will outline some conditions which I deem are not treatable medically or surgically, briefly, and then discuss some of the more common diseases seen.

Untreatable diseases:

Microphthalmia/Anophthalmia
Ventricular septal defect
Trilogy/Tetralogy/Pentalogy of Fallot (multiple cardiac defects)
Atresia coli*
Atresia ani*
Choanal atresia* Fractured spine
Fractured femur
Premature foal (less than 300 days into gestation)*

* Constitute diseases which may have a treatment
option, however, the prognosis going into treatment is grave.

Lacerations and long bone fractures can initially be managed with pressure wraps and support bandages until the vet arrives.


[ Edit | View ]





[> Saturday's inspiration... -- Cheri, 02:00:56 03/30/03 Sun




NEW LIFE
_________________________

2 Corinthians 5:14-21 (NRSV)

For the love of Christ urges us on, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died. And he died for all, so that those who live might live no longer for themselves, but for him who died and was raised for them. From now on, therefore, we regard no one from a human point of view; even though we once knew Christ from a human point of view, we know him no longer in that way. So if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new!

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us. So we are ambassadors for Christ, since God is making his appeal through us; we entreat you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

_________________________

If anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: everything old has passed away; see, everything has become new!

- 2 Corinthians 5:17 (NRSV)

_________________________

AS I sit in my office and look out the window, I can see green plants sprouting up from the soil. Spring is coming; winter is almost gone. New life is becoming visible as green plants rise from seeds that have lain dormant through the cold winter months. It seemed as if the seeds were dead, but now it is abundantly clear that the promise of life was there.

I remember periods when my life lay dormant through times of coldness brought about by the many mistakes I have made. I may have appeared to others as someone spiritually dead. But God, the author of new life, knew the promise of life was still there.

New beginnings come into our lives when we let God's light shine in. God brings us back to life with the power of reconciliation. God forgives our transgressions and allows us to rise above the cold world of sin. Praise God for new life!


Prayer: Loving God, we thank you for the promise of new life with
you. We thank you for providing us with new beginnings in our lives so that we can rise above the life of sin. Amen.

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY:
God offers each of us opportunities for new life.

-- B. J. Woods (Texas, U.S.A.)

PRAYER FOCUS: Someone seeking a new beginning
_________________________


[ Edit | View ]





[> Saturday's horse fact... -- Cheri, 02:10:49 03/30/03 Sun




Frequently Asked Questions About Equine Parasitism and Their Answers..


Part 1 ..


Q. How can internal parasites harm a horse and impair its performance?

A.Internal parasites are a serious threat to a horse's health. In large numbers, these internal opportunists can cause diarrhea, impaction, anemia, weight loss and colic—all conditions that affect how a horse feels and performs. The damage inflicted depends on the particular parasite. While a number of different parasites can infect a horse, the most damaging are strongyles and ascarids (roundworms). Each can cause sometimes permanent damage that can profoundly alter a horse's performance.

Strongyles inflame the intestinal wall during their migration, impairing nutrient absorption and reducing feed efficiency. If a horse is robbed of vital nutrients and energy, it can't perform to its potential.

Ascarids hatch in the intestines then migrate through the lungs before returning to the gut. The damage is permanent, because lung tissue doesn't regenerate as healthy tissue—it scars. If enough damage and scarring occurs, a horse's lung capacity and, ultimately, stamina, can be substantially reduced.

Tomorrows fact..Q. When are horses most likely to pick up parasites?


[ Edit | View ]






[ Contact Forum Admin ]



Forum timezone: GMT+1
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.