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Date Posted: 07:34:35 09/06/02 Fri
Author: Monaro Forever
Subject: Re: 2004 GTO
In reply to: Tom DiStasio 's message, "2004 GTO" on 13:26:08 08/20/02 Tue

>This is not a GTO, this is a Grand AM. Please go back
>to the 1999 concept GTO that I waited 20 years for.
>
>
>P.S. Does the 2004 version come with a matching
>bottle of nail Polish.

Only if you are that way inclined.

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Replies:

[> Re: 2004 GTO -- John LeChette, 12:14:19 09/07/02 Sat

>This is not a GTO, this is a Grand AM. Please go back
>to the 1999 concept GTO that I waited 20 years for.
>
>
>P.S. Does the 2004 version come with a matching
>bottle of nail Polish.
I am a little dismayed by Pontiac's plan to "import" a GTO. What a slap in the face for this division. The GTO is the American icon of the muscle car, and to pass off this foreign car with a warmed over chevy engine is a disgrace.
I think a company this large could have actually built one here in the U.S. and competed quite well with the Ford Mustang Cobra in the $35000 range. My .02

John

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[> [> Re: 'American icon' -- Monaro/GTO, 03:43:49 09/10/02 Tue

>I am a little dismayed by Pontiac's plan to "import" a
>GTO. What a slap in the face for this division. The
>GTO is the American icon of the muscle car, and to
>pass off this foreign car with a warmed over chevy
>engine is a disgrace.
>I think a company this large could have actually built
>one here in the U.S. and competed quite well with the
>Ford Mustang Cobra in the $35000 range. My .02
>
>John

Disgrace, eh?
I'll tell you what the REAL disgrace is!... It's the so-called 'Excitement Division' of Pontiac currently making/selling nothing better than boring V6 powered Front-drive cars!
NO V8 Pontiacs? ... boring
NO RWD Pontiacs? ... boring
NOT even a V6 stick shift Pontiac available? ... boring boring boring
Tin Indian sales are down fully 20% in 18 months, and Pontiac's in need of rescue - lucky for them at least Holden still makes genuine excitement machines, V8 6speed coupes with RWD

2002 F-Body > imported from Canada
2004 GTO > imported from Australia - no more 'foreign' than the 2002 model, eh John?

Please, try and control this misty-eyed 'American icon' GTO nostalgia crap. When the previous GTO finally died about a quarter-century ago, it was merely a thinly disguised (and boring) Chevy Nova econo-car clone. Wow, big deal

I've read a lot of nauseous posts regarding the new GTO, bitching on about the lack of hood scoops, lack of hood-mounted tach, lack of retro styling, doesn't deserve the GTO badge etc etc. Apart from the much-improved quality of the '04, most of you so-called enthusiasts forget to ask one simple question ...

How good is it to drive & own?

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[> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- QuickSilver, 11:35:52 01/04/03 Sat

>>I am a little dismayed by Pontiac's plan to "import" a
>>GTO. What a slap in the face for this division. The
>>GTO is the American icon of the muscle car, and to
>>pass off this foreign car with a warmed over chevy
>>engine is a disgrace.
>>I think a company this large could have actually built
>>one here in the U.S. and competed quite well with the
>>Ford Mustang Cobra in the $35000 range. My .02
>>
>>John
>
>Disgrace, eh?
>I'll tell you what the REAL disgrace is!... It's the
>so-called 'Excitement Division' of Pontiac currently
>making/selling nothing better than boring V6 powered
>Front-drive cars!
>NO V8 Pontiacs? ... boring
>NO RWD Pontiacs? ... boring
>NOT even a V6 stick shift Pontiac available? ...
>boring boring boring
>Tin Indian sales are down fully 20% in 18 months, and
>Pontiac's in need of rescue - lucky for them at least
>Holden still makes genuine excitement machines, V8
>6speed coupes with RWD
>
>2002 F-Body > imported from Canada
>2004 GTO > imported from Australia - no more 'foreign'
>than the 2002 model, eh John?
>
>Please, try and control this misty-eyed 'American
>icon' GTO nostalgia crap. When the previous GTO
>finally died about a quarter-century ago, it was
>merely a thinly disguised (and boring) Chevy Nova
>econo-car clone. Wow, big deal
>
>I've read a lot of nauseous posts regarding the new
>GTO, bitching on about the lack of hood scoops, lack
>of hood-mounted tach, lack of retro styling, doesn't
>deserve the GTO badge etc etc. Apart from the
>much-improved quality of the '04, most of you
>so-called enthusiasts forget to ask one simple
>question ...
>
>How good is it to drive & own?


Point well taken. Luckily the upcoming 2004 and 2005 line of Pontiacs will take care of a lot of your "boring" issues. The Prix will offer a steering wheel mounted TAPshift on its performance upgrade model. Most of line is going supercharged. And when the 2005 Grand Am hits everyone will forget the GTO even existed.

As far as the GTO styling, I would give it at least a year after release before Pontiac started introducing beefier styling packages. Remember how plain the first GTO looked?

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[> [> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- Jake, 17:13:11 01/11/03 Sat

I don't really have a problem with the car being an Australian import bue I do have a problem with the way this thing looks. The Holden is cool in it's own way but I personally wouldn't say it's "GTO". I would have introduced the car under another name and saved the GTO title for something else. It really dosen't look like a muscle car. Looks like a two door Caddy Catera or somethin'. Like I said, it's cool but it's not what I'd see as a GTO.

"it was merely a thinly disguised (and boring) Chevy Nova econo-car clone. Wow, big deal"

I'd say a Chevelle's more of it's counterpart than the Nova..

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- the Dogamus One, 02:02:51 01/21/03 Tue

How can a car that is going to be more expensive than the car it is replacing be an "econo-car clone"? Holden makes a fine automobile and if sales go well in the US, I'd imagine that they'd bring some of the aftermarket and specialty versions (there's like 30) over as well. So the name thing really does fit. You can't argue with a motor like the LS1. After all, it is pretty much the last of the pushrod powerhouses. How much more muscle car do you want?

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- Robert, 09:36:02 02/13/03 Thu

I think that you guys are missing the point. If you follow the original GTOs design and conception its point was to stop the decline of PMD. Pontiac just couldnt compete back then with GM saying no speedy cars no racing and such. but a genius named Delorean came up with the idea of putting a 389 in the body of a lemans and thus the great one was born.
now I dont like the GTO name appearing on what is basically a Neon (Per Se) on Steroids but pontiac is doing the same thing that they did in the creation of the great one. now while it is dismaying to think about, pontiac just cant compete these days. Kids want foreign and crap like that in not that many years the hobby of restoring old ponchos will die if we dont start putting the hobby in young peoples minds.


Robert

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[> [> [> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- Jon, 18:15:26 04/05/05 Tue

I think you're missing the point. The last year of the GTO WAS a chevy nova with different accents. It wasn't the same chassis like the GTO and Chevelles were at first.

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[> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- Andrew, 13:50:40 01/13/03 Mon

>>I am a little dismayed by Pontiac's plan to "import" a
>>GTO. What a slap in the face for this division. The
>>GTO is the American icon of the muscle car, and to
>>pass off this foreign car with a warmed over chevy
>>engine is a disgrace.
>>I think a company this large could have actually built
>>one here in the U.S. and competed quite well with the
>>Ford Mustang Cobra in the $35000 range. My .02
>>
>>John
>
>Disgrace, eh?
>I'll tell you what the REAL disgrace is!... It's the
>so-called 'Excitement Division' of Pontiac currently
>making/selling nothing better than boring V6 powered
>Front-drive cars!
>NO V8 Pontiacs? ... boring
>NO RWD Pontiacs? ... boring
>NOT even a V6 stick shift Pontiac available? ...
>boring boring boring
>Tin Indian sales are down fully 20% in 18 months, and
>Pontiac's in need of rescue - lucky for them at least
>Holden still makes genuine excitement machines, V8
>6speed coupes with RWD
>
>2002 F-Body > imported from Canada
>2004 GTO > imported from Australia - no more 'foreign'
>than the 2002 model, eh John?
>
>Please, try and control this misty-eyed 'American
>icon' GTO nostalgia crap. When the previous GTO
>finally died about a quarter-century ago, it was
>merely a thinly disguised (and boring) Chevy Nova
>econo-car clone. Wow, big deal
>
>I've read a lot of nauseous posts regarding the new
>GTO, bitching on about the lack of hood scoops, lack
>of hood-mounted tach, lack of retro styling, doesn't
>deserve the GTO badge etc etc. Apart from the
>much-improved quality of the '04, most of you
>so-called enthusiasts forget to ask one simple
>question ...
>
>How good is it to drive & own?

Your both right, its important to have a car that looks good(tunnel hood...) and have a car that drives good to. GTO does have a good name, and i was looking forward to the concept for a while now. PLEASE BRING IT BACK!!!

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[> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- Andrew, 14:02:56 01/13/03 Mon

>>I am a little dismayed by Pontiac's plan to "import" a
>>GTO. What a slap in the face for this division. The
>>GTO is the American icon of the muscle car, and to
>>pass off this foreign car with a warmed over chevy
>>engine is a disgrace.
>>I think a company this large could have actually built
>>one here in the U.S. and competed quite well with the
>>Ford Mustang Cobra in the $35000 range. My .02
>>
>>John
>
>Disgrace, eh?
>I'll tell you what the REAL disgrace is!... It's the
>so-called 'Excitement Division' of Pontiac currently
>making/selling nothing better than boring V6 powered
>Front-drive cars!
>NO V8 Pontiacs? ... boring
>NO RWD Pontiacs? ... boring
>NOT even a V6 stick shift Pontiac available? ...
>boring boring boring
>Tin Indian sales are down fully 20% in 18 months, and
>Pontiac's in need of rescue - lucky for them at least
>Holden still makes genuine excitement machines, V8
>6speed coupes with RWD
>
>2002 F-Body > imported from Canada
>2004 GTO > imported from Australia - no more 'foreign'
>than the 2002 model, eh John?
>
>Please, try and control this misty-eyed 'American
>icon' GTO nostalgia crap. When the previous GTO
>finally died about a quarter-century ago, it was
>merely a thinly disguised (and boring) Chevy Nova
>econo-car clone. Wow, big deal
>
>I've read a lot of nauseous posts regarding the new
>GTO, bitching on about the lack of hood scoops, lack
>of hood-mounted tach, lack of retro styling, doesn't
>deserve the GTO badge etc etc. Apart from the
>much-improved quality of the '04, most of you
>so-called enthusiasts forget to ask one simple
>question ...
>
>How good is it to drive & own?

Your both right, its important to have a car that looks good(tunnel hood...) and have a car that drives good to. GTO does have a good name, and i was looking forward to the concept for a while now. PLEASE BRING IT BACK!!!

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[> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- curtis wilson, 20:33:07 08/16/03 Sat

i,am going to buy this car because i think this is a car that will turn heads.i like the ideal because people will ask what it is.you all have to realize that new cars have to be built this way.many of you weren,t even old enough to have a gto when they first came out.so it is time to move on.this car is awesome.think about it.when that camero pull up beside that gto and look over at that v6 looking car and get there doors blown off,oh what a feeling

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[> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- Jon, 18:12:09 04/05/05 Tue

It's about damn time someone recognized this. I would have liked to have seen a little better styling myself, but come on,, this is a great car! All you so called enthusiasts need to take a look at the performance features of this car, not to mention the Aussie quality both interior, exterior and robust suspension/chassis that far surpasses anything that the so called "american" GM cars contain... Oh darn,, the new GTO doesn't have cheesy body panels that don't match up and where the hell did they put the nerf interior!!??? What's this?? rear seats with leg room and head room?? and what the hell is up with these buckets that are more comfortable than anything GM has ever produced??? The car is good looking,, maybe it isn't a nostalgic rip-off like every mustang produced in the last decade, but it's still handsome. And I'd rather have a somewhat boring look than all those fake assed plastic NON FUNCTIONAL scoops and ground effects hanging all over it.

Furthermore,, rattling on about putting a chevy engine in the Pontiac is a pretty stupid arguement. It's been since the early '80s that Pontiac even produced a V8.

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[> [> Re: 'American icon' -- Monaro/GTO, 03:48:03 09/10/02 Tue

>I am a little dismayed by Pontiac's plan to "import" a
>GTO. What a slap in the face for this division. The
>GTO is the American icon of the muscle car, and to
>pass off this foreign car with a warmed over chevy
>engine is a disgrace.
>I think a company this large could have actually built
>one here in the U.S. and competed quite well with the
>Ford Mustang Cobra in the $35000 range. My .02
>
>John

Disgrace, eh?
I'll tell you what the REAL disgrace is!... It's the so-called 'Excitement Division' of Pontiac currently making/selling nothing better than boring V6 powered Front-drive cars!
NO V8 Pontiacs? ... boring
NO RWD Pontiacs? ... boring
NOT even a V6 stick shift Pontiac available? ... boring boring boring
Tin Indian sales are down fully 20% in 18 months, and Pontiac's in need of rescue - lucky for them at least Holden still makes genuine excitement machines, V8 6speed coupes with RWD

2002 F-Body > imported from Canada
2004 GTO > imported from Australia - no more 'foreign' than the 2002 model, eh John?

Please, try and control this misty-eyed 'American icon' GTO nostalgia crap. When the previous GTO last appeared about a quarter-century ago, it was merely a thinly disguised (and boring) Chevy Nova econo-car clone. Hardly an item of worship

I've read a lot of nauseous posts regarding the new GTO, bitching on about the lack of hood scoops, lack of hood-mounted tach, lack of retro styling, doesn't deserve the GTO badge etc etc. Apart from the much-improved quality of the '04, most of you so-called enthusiasts forget to ask one simple question ...

How good is it to drive & own?

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[> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- American Muscle, 10:50:49 01/22/03 Wed

Most of you are missing the point. The new GTO styling looks a tad plain for the simple reason that it takes quite a bit of time to certify any changes in styling such as hood scoops, duel exhaust etc... Pontiac wanted to get this car out for the 2004 model year to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the GTO. The 2005 car will include far more of what you all had "hoped" for, mark my words.
As far as excitement? 340hp LS1, T56 6 speed, RWD in a car that is quite a bit lighter than the Corvette and 15 grand cheaper... I’m excited. The only car manufactured today that even comes close at the same price range is the SVT Cobra Mustang. Ford is not stifled by the (“Nothing is allowed to compete with the Corvette”) mindset that GM instituted way back in 1967 when tri- power was no longer allowed on any car other than the Corvette. Believe me, this Holden has a GTX version in AU that is producing over 400hp! When SLP or the like get their hands on it we will see what this GTO’s potential is. Lets not forget, most first generation GTO owners took their new GTO to speed shops like Royal Pontiac and had them tuned up. I see no reason why that will not be the case 40 years later. So slow down with the knee jerk reactions and get ready for the ride of your life.
In a final note calling the GTO an “import” is a tad of a stretch! Sure its made in AU, But Holden is a division of GM and in a sad testament of the truth, they have a far better quality control program that any US auto maker. As a result we may actually see a better manufactured vehicle from this GM division. If this program is a success, the car will eventually be moved over to US plants. Tooling up for a new model takes years. Like I said before, Pontiac wanted to get this car out for the 2004 model year to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the GTO.

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[> [> [> [> Re: 'American icon' -- ThirdPersonPlural, 17:39:26 09/18/03 Thu

How many think that anyone found the 1964 Tempest an exciting body style? Hey, the GTO legacy is a bigger than standard motor dropped into a run of the mill midsized sedan, which is exactly what we are seeing today.

When Can I Get A Convertible?

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[> [> 2004 gto -- jacob cisneros, 10:41:21 12/11/02 Wed

do they have speed

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[> [> [> Re: 2004 gto -- hsfhshsfhshhhhsfgf, 08:48:47 01/20/03 Mon

>do they have speed
YES MO FO

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[> [> Re: 2004 GTO -- Roger, 16:27:30 11/20/03 Thu

SAD, After reading the above I agree with some and disagree with others. It is true we are in a GLOBAL economy and I feel GM was looking for a fast means to get a fast buck. Two methods to their greed. 1. From the Yuppies who will run out and buy the Holden because in their minds they are going to own a MUSCLE CAR icon which they couldn't afford earlier in life. 2. They (GM) was (IS) being out sold by Ford and Chrysler both in STYLING and Performance. Pontiac always was the dominate performer in the GM Division. But, Chevy had the corporate pull and so Pontiac was told to back off, IE the 326 (330) Pontiac, Chevy was affrade that hot roders would purchase the 330 in place of the 327. Recently Pontiac pulled out of NASCAR. This tells me that the EXCITEMENT Div. is slowly being phased out like the oldest car in the GM line up, Oldsmobile. In time the only selection you will have from GM will be Cadilac and Chevy. Its all about the Bottom Line, $$$$ YOURS By the way this is a 3 year deal.

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[> [> Re: 2004 GTO :( -- Mike, 10:38:30 11/30/03 Sun

Pontiac had a chance to do something exciting for the
40th birthday of the GTO.
So what do they do, make it into another foreign car.
It's not a sign of the times or of a global crap economy,
it's a sign the American automobile industry is shooting
right down the crapper.
It is a true discrace what they have done to the GTO and
on the most important milestone of the AMERICAN GTO.
Global economy my fanny, how many Fords or Chevy's or
MOPAR's do you think the Jap's or anyone else for that
matter in the world drive...very few if any.
American's recently are true fool's giving away the
industry that made us great and a world power.
The export of the American GTO is just another sign
of true ignorence.

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