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Friday, May 15, 09:10:54pm [ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, [4] ]

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Date Posted: 13:16:54 10/20/05 Thu
Author: Randy
Subject: Re: Rules
In reply to: Greg "FSTA" 's message, "Re: Rules" on 12:40:24 10/20/05 Thu

Ok, say the W/A intercoolers get voted in to the mix. What turbo size? I was on Turbonectics site and they have have a listing of several. I have heard a few numbers thrown around on sizes. Here is what they say..

80mm inducer; 3/8" quill; flow capacity capable of supporting up to 1,200 hp!

88mm inducer; 3/8" quill; flow capacity capable of supporting up to 1,500 hp!

91mm inducer; 7/16" quill; capable of supporting up to 1,600 hp!

Suggestions?

I would like to talk to a resource that is unbiased to FSTA or any power adder before I form my opinion. I just don't know enough about the forced induction power adders to make a call on this one.

I truly think if you make it wide open in the power plant aspect, it will kill the class.

YMMV

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Replies:

[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- Greg "FSTA", 13:46:31 10/20/05 Thu

Randy Quote:
"I would like to talk to a resource that is unbiased to FSTA or any power adder before I form my opinion. I just don't know enough about the forced induction power adders to make a call on this one."


OK, all in favor of Randy being charge of research say I !
No but really guys, this is whats it is going to take to make this work, so research and real world data. Not some 1 perfect pass in 30 degree temps but consistant data. Some rules will need tweaking and thats where the committe wil come in. Keeping the rule in tact but modifying to keep the playing field level. NHRA does it on a regular basis (ie: Fuel, Gears, Wing angle, even (safety issue)tire pressure.) Keep the idieas coming...Thanks for all of the support...


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- Shawn, 14:50:05 10/20/05 Thu

Here is my opinion again.I know everyone is scared of turbos, but there are lots of factors that go with turbo size. Most people size their turbo to their cubic inch if you put a 106 on a 302 it would not ever do a burnout because it is so hard to spool up. If you put an 80 mm on a large cubic inch motor you are pissing in the wind because it won't make boost. How is someone that knows nothing about turbos going to learn everything in a week to inform us? Lawrence Conelly has been running turbo's for 15 years and does not know everything about them. Keep it open Kyle and Chip want to run their 3 kits let them, if someone wants a blower let them get a 1471 and we should be able to run any single turbo just maybe not 2. What is the difference between turbo and nitrous? I have a nitrous express book in front of me that says 1 fogger will produce an extra 1000 hp. You nitrous guys run 2 of them so what is the difference in 2000hp worth of nitrous or a turbo that can support 2400hp? If your big block will make 1000 on motor and you spray 2 kits that is 3000HP. The largest 106mm turbo will support 2400 that don't mean it will make that much, the same thing with nitrous. If you limit turbo or blower size we need to limit nitrous to 2 cheater plates.Now fair is fair right? I bet you nitrous guys don't want to hear that do you? Well I am going to run a turbo so I don't want to hear it either. I went by the current rules and bought any size single turbo a 106. You never had even 1 turbo car so why would you change the rules before one comes in? Now don't it look like an open motor and power adder rule makes more sense? We could sit in the meeting for weeks arguing about rules and when it is all said and done you are going to loose cars. If its open anyone can race and if you can't compete step down to the slower class.I do not think we need anyone in the meeting talking about forced induction unless it is Jim Oddy or Kenny Duttweiler, everyone that knows nothing about it will get misled, especially if they are against forced induction anyway.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- Greg "FSTA", 15:19:53 10/20/05 Thu

Shawn Quote:
" I went by the current rules and bought any size single turbo a 106. You never had even 1 turbo car so why would you change the rules before one comes in?"

You are correct, under the current 2005 rules below any size was allowed provided it was A/A and on race Fuel. One of the things I keep hearing is make it unlimited motor combos so we can race anywhere. Under the current FSTA rules you can go anywhere, but there are many places you can't go with Tall Decks, Big Chief heads, 3 Kits, 2 Carbs, A/W IC, etc. A current FSTA car can run in The Clash, TTT5, Prescott, Clobberthon TT5, and many others so it is not a case of building a car to fit just one place, it is the case of exsisting cars that were built years ago to fit certain places having to step back and regroup while allowing cars being built, able to pick where they want to race. Just my opinion though...

* Any single turbo or centrifugal supercharger
* Air to air intercooler/aftercooler only. No other aux. cooling devices allowed to cool air charge
* Alcohol allowed only on carbureted, non turbo/blown entries


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- Shawn, 15:48:50 10/20/05 Thu

Those rules look great Greg. Just chance the alcohol carburetor part and I'll be ok. LOL
Yes we can race anywhere with the current rules but just not be competitive. Thats what I'm trying to get at.How about the conventional heads and any power adder? Thats the rules I like I just brought up any heads for those ford guys that want yates heads. Just consider me a guine pig on the alcohol carburated turbo thing. It was something different and really cheap to get into that should make good power, but not proven yet. Anyone in this class can go turbo if they want so think for others not just me. I thought turbos were really expensive like everyone else before I bought one.A new turbo and wastegate is cheaper than most people have in their nitrous, then you just need to build headers. You can ever run a junkie motor with a turbo and not blow it up. You don't need all the fancy parts like you do with blower or nitrous. Believe me I bought a 10 year old small block ford and freshened it up for this turbo change. Low dollar


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- Greg (FSTA), 18:45:03 10/20/05 Thu

Shawn Quote:
"Yes we can race anywhere with the current rules but just not be competitive."

I would say we do pretty well, Kyle has traveled more than most of us with his Short deck stock suspension camaro and made a lot of people think twice. Some rules and classes have been modified because of the Bad9er. Now you add Catdog, Kyle Box, Mike Kurtz, Chip, John Flores,etc and you have a pretty quick bunch.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- Shawn, 19:09:44 10/20/05 Thu

Lets set up a match race with all of them, David wolf and Justin Curry. Not competative in other classes.Not trying to be an ass and nothing against any of these guys just trying to show you my point. With more open rules all of these guys would be on Wolf and Currys door.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- Randy, 18:18:17 10/20/05 Thu

"I have a nitrous express book in front of me that says 1 fogger will produce an extra 1000 hp. You nitrous guys run 2 of them so what is the difference in 2000hp worth of nitrous or a turbo that can support 2400hp? If your big block will make 1000 on motor and you spray 2 kits that is 3000HP."

Your logic is flawed all the way around. If you could get that kind of true power out of 2 kits, you would not have swapped.

I think if you want an unlimited deal, jump back over to Outlaw 10.5 since you know everything about nitrous, turbos and blowers.. All those guys should be easy pickens for guy with your knowledge..


People in glass houses should not cast stones..


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- Shawn, 18:57:15 10/20/05 Thu

Read my post a little closer Randy. It basically says just because foggers are capable of making 2000hp don't mean they really do. Just because a turbo says it is capable of making 2400hp don't mean it really makes that much, its the same deal. I don't claim to know everything but I have ran nitrous for 10 years, blown alcohol for 3 years and I don't know shit about turbos but I'm learning more every day.I don't care what everyone votes, majority rules right? We just want to try and vote in some rules without being shut out. Try to vote in unlimited first, if nobody wants it then vote on something else right. I just don't understand what the second class is for if you want all kinds of limits on the first one? Hell just limit the first one to 5.50 and we will all index race thats how fast ya'll want it to be. You and Greg seem to have the rules made up before we go to a meeting so why even vote? All I am trying to get is a alcohol carb. with a turbo for cost and simplicity not to make 500 more hp. Everything else on my car fits the rules. My car is more street apearing than anything else in the class, I have conventional heads. I went with alcohol so I dont have to take my front seat out to run an intercooler or cut the front of my car all up to run an air to air. I guess noone did their homework before making the current rules. Brad Brand went 7.20 at 207mph with a single turbo on gas with an air to air intercooler at 3000lbs with regular o'l trickflow heads, but that was not on a true 10.5 with stock suspension.SEE I GOT YOU PEOPLE TALKING NOW! WHY WAS THIS BOARD SO DEAD UNTIL I SAID SOMETHING? MAYBE I SHOULD POST SOMETHING ON HERE EVERY DAY AND KEEP YA'LL ON YOUR FEET.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- prochargeds10, 20:01:55 10/20/05 Thu

shawn has a very good point about the hp levels of nirous+turbo,and blowers.

they say my blower is good to 1800hp, wish I could get all that!!!


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- prochargeds10, 21:10:07 10/20/05 Thu

"Your logic is flawed all the way around. If you could get that kind of true power out of 2 kits, you would not have swapped"

same goes for the force induction stuff..


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- Shawn, 02:18:48 10/21/05 Fri

Look at turbo Rob he has a single 106 fuel injected with a water intercooler and a 40,000 Bennet motor. He is in the 5 teen to 5.20 range.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- kenny, 05:15:04 10/21/05 Fri

all being said,it's not all about the tires and susp.anymore.it's about the ability to tune the msd digital boxs and boost controlers!do away with them and it puts it back to the original concept of the class,throwing all you got at a 10.9 tire and factory style susp.and HOPE IT HOLDS!!!


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Rules -- Randy, 06:04:41 10/21/05 Fri

Ok, I can see this is really going nowhere fast..

I am not trying to dictate rules, I am trying to get myself educated on other technology so that I can make my own conclusions.

I found some info on turbos and posted it to here. I know people that run all types of power adders and am aware of what it takes to make power from either.

In my humble opinion, if you blow all of the rules out, this class will die. If you want an unlimited deal, go run Limited Street or something that has no rules on suspension or power adders.
As they say about opinions, they are like azzholes, everybody has one and some stink worse than others..


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Did Shawn really say that a conventional headed rat makes 1000 on motor and 3000 on GAS??? -- questioning the call, 09:06:58 10/21/05 Fri

You guys are embarrassing us to the world.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Did Shawn really say that a conventional headed rat makes 1000 on motor and 3000 on GAS??? -- prochargeds10, 10:19:36 10/21/05 Fri

I think you missed the whole point.
questioning the call???
questioning your name,, leave it and join up!!


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