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Date Posted: 00:34:27 08/09/02 Fri
Author: Ìàêñèì
Subject: Re: Äîçâîëüòå ³ ìåí³ âñòðîìèòè ñâîãî íîñà
In reply to: Ëåì 's message, "Äîçâîëüòå ³ ìåí³ âñòðîìèòè ñâîãî íîñà" on 12:54:09 08/08/02 Thu

"Ùîäî ñâàñòèêè, òî ëþáèòåëÿì àð³éñòâà ÿ çàâæäè çàóâàæóþ, ùî ç óñ³õ "ñëîâ"ÿí" âîíà ïîøèðåíà íàéá³ëüøå ó óãðî-ô³í³â:)"

Äìèòð³ºâà ïðî öå çãàäóº :)

Ñêàçàëà À:
"Ñ þæíîðóññêèìè îáëàñòÿìè ñâÿçàíû ñâàñòè÷åñêèå ýëåìåíòû îðíàìåíòà, äîæèâøèå äî íàøèõ äíåé â èçäåëèÿõ ïðèêëàäíîãî èñêóóññòâà..." Äìèòðèåâà. "Ôîëüêëîð..." Ñ.230

Äàë³ êàæå íå Á, à çîâñ³ì ³íøó áóêâó:
"Ìû óæå îòìå÷àëè, ÷òî åãî ïîÿâëåíèå ó ðóññêèõ Ìåçåíè, ïî âñåé âåðîÿòíîñòè, íóæíî ñâÿçûâàòü ñ ôèííî-óãîðñêèìè ñîñåäÿìè.  ñâîþ î÷åðåäü Ñ.Ï.Òîëñòîâ ñ÷èòàåò ñâàñòè÷åñêèé çíàê îäíèì èç ìíîãèõ ñâèäåòåëüñòâ ñâÿçåé ôèííî-óãîðñêîãî, îñîáåííî óãîðñêîãî ñåâåðà Åâðàçèè ñ äîàðèéñêîé Èíäèåé (ïëåìåíàìè äðàâèäîâ è ìóíäà)." Òàì ñàìî.

À ïîò³ì âæå ³äå îá³öÿíà Á.
"... äðåâíîñòè ýòîò çíàê èçâåñòåí â ñêèôñêîé ñðåäå, â ïîãðàíè÷üå ñî ñòåïüþ... Á. Ðûáàêîâ îòìåòèë îñîáîå ðàñïðîñòðàíåíèå ýòîãî äðåâíåãî ñèìâîëà ïëîäîðîäèÿ â òåõ îáëàñòÿõ, ãäå íàðÿäó ñ çåìëåäåëèåì áîëüøóþ ðîëü èãðàëî ñêîòîâîäñòâî..." Òàì ñàìî.

² íàðåøò³ ôðàçà ïðî éìîâ³ðíå ïåðåì³ùåííÿ ñêîòîâîä÷èõ ïëåìåí ç ϳâäíÿ íà ϳâí³÷, òåïåð ç ï³äñâ³äîìîþ äóìêîþ ïðî ñòåïè Óêðà¿íè. Ö³ëêîì ëîã³÷íî, ÿêùî çàáóòè ôðàçó ïðî ô³í³â.

À ïðî ðåàðõà¿çàö³þ öå äóæå âëó÷íî. Ñàìå öüîãî ñëîâà ìåí³ áðàêóâàëî, êîëè ÿ ÷èòàâ ã³ïîòåçó Äìèòð³ºâî¿. Âîíà âåäå ïðî òå ñàìå, àëå ³íøèìè ñëîâàìè.


Òå ïîñèëàííÿ íà "âîñêðåñ" í³êîìó á íå ðàäèâ. Ïåðåêðó÷óþòü ïî-÷îðíîìó. Âèä³ëåííÿ - öå ïðîïóùåí³ ñëîâà.

Õàðàêòåðíà, íàïðèìåð, ññûëêà Ñ. È. Äìèòðèåâîé íà ñòàòüþ çíàìåíèòîãî ñîáèðàòåëÿ áûëèí À. Â. Ìàðêîâà, êîòîðûé óñòàíîâèë, ÷òî «áûëèíû ïîþò íà Òåðñêîì áåðåãó (îäíà èç ìåñòíîñòåé Ïîìîðüÿ.— Â. Ê.) âåçäå, êðîìå ñ. Ïîíîÿ». «Ýòî ìíå ïîêàçàëîñü çàãàäî÷íûì,— ïèøåò îí,— íî ïîòîì äåëî ñëó÷àéíî ðàçúÿñíèëîñü. Íà ïàðîõîäå ÿ âñòðåòèëñÿ ñ íåñêîëüêèìè ïîíîéñêèìè æèòåëÿìè, êîòîðûõ ïî îäåæäå íåëüçÿ áûëî îòëèñèòü îò áîãàòûõ ïîäìîñêîâíûõ êðåñòüÿí; ïðèñëóøèâàÿñü ê èõ ðàçãîâîðó, ÿ çàìåòèë, ÷òî ãîâîð èõ ïî÷òè íå îòëè÷àåòñÿ îò ìîñêîâñêîãî. Òóò æå îäèí êðåñòüÿíèí ìíå ñîîáùèë, ÷òî ïðåäêè ðóññêîãî íàñåëåíèÿ Ïîíîÿ ïåðåñåëèëèñü èç «Ìîñêâû», òî åñòü èç öåíòðàëüíîé Ðîññèè. Ìîñêîâñêèå âûõîäöû íå èçìåíèëè ñâîåé ýòíîãðàôè÷åñêîé ôèçèîíîìèè è äàæå íå íàó÷èëèñü ñòàðèíàì» (ñòîð. íå 49, à 48).

«Äðóãàÿ ëèíèÿ çàïàäíûõ ñâÿçåé êóëüòóðû ðóññêèõ Ìåçåíè îòêëîíÿåòñÿ ê þãó, â Ïîäíåïðîâüå» (ñ. 228); äàëåå ïðèâîäèòñÿ ðÿä ïðèìåðîâ áëèçîñòè èëè äàæå òîæäåñòâà ìåçåíñêèõ îáðÿäîâ ñ óêðàèíñêèìè (òî åñòü ïåðâîíà÷àëüíî äðåâíåêèåâñêèìè).


Ïðî â³äñèëêó äî ïîëüñüêèõ ðàéîí³â íà ò³é ñàì³é ñòîð³íö³ áðàòè-"ñëîâ'ÿíè" çàáóëè çãàäàòè, ÿê òèïîâî. Îñîáëèâî, äóìàþ, àâòîðàì õîò³ëîñÿ á çàáóòè ïðî "Þäó", ÿêà íà ï³âäí³ ìຠçîâñ³ì ïðîòèëåæíå çíà÷åííÿ, òîä³ ÿê íà ô³íñüêèõ çåìëÿõ - "Þä³" ïîêëîíÿþòüñÿ ÿê ñâî¿ì ïðåäêàì.
"Ïîêëîíåíèå Þäå ñâèäåòåëüñòâóåò î ìèðíîì ïðîöåññå àññèìèëÿöèè ÷óäñêîãî íàñåëåíèÿ, ñîõðàíèâøåãî ïàìÿòü î ñâîåì ïðåäêå" (ñ.228)

ß ïðîãëÿíóâ http://voskres.ru/kozhinov/slovo/3.htm ßêà ãíèëà ñòàòòÿ, íàðâàëè öèòàò çâ³äóñ³ëü, ÿê³ íà÷åáòî ìàþòü äîâîäèòè êîíöåïö³þ. ͳêîìó á íå ïîðàäèâ ÷èòàòè ¿¿ ïåðåä ¿æåþ.

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