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Date Posted: 14:16:30 07/11/01 Wed
Author: Ëåì
Subject: Re: Âñå ïîëàãîäèâ
In reply to: Òðåéòÿê 's message, "Âñå ïîëàãîäèâ" on 15:08:25 07/09/01 Mon

Íó à ÿê æå íàçâè äí³ïðîâèõ ïîðîã³â? Äåÿê³ çâè÷à¿, ùî çîâñ³ì íå ïîõîäÿòü íà ñëîâ"ÿíñüê³? Âçÿòè ñïîãàäè òîãî æ Àë-Ìàñóä³. Ùîïðàâäà, öå âñå 䳺 âèêëþ÷íî â òîìó âèïàäêó, êîëè îòîæíþâàòè ïîëÿí ³ç ðóñàìè.

Òàê îòîæ. À Íåñòîð âçàãàë³ àëêîãîë³ê ÿêèéñü. êðàùå âæå äîâ³ðÿòè ³íîçåìíèì äæåðåëàì, í³æ òèì ïðèäâîðíèì ëèçîáëþäàì. ×è ïîòð³áíî îòîòîæíþàòè ïîëÿí ç ðóñàìè? Òðóäíî ñêàçàòè. Ìàáóòü, í³. Íà òîé ÷àñ ïîëÿíè âòðàòèëè êîíòðîëü íàä ñèòóàö³ºþ, ³ âëàäó çàõîïèëè íîðìàíè, çâ³äêè ³ íàçâè ïîðîã³â. Àëå ÿ íå äóìàþ, ùî â³ä íèõ íàçâà Ðóñü ïåðåéøëà, âîíà ³ñíóâàëà ³ ðàí³øå ³ ïîâèííà áóòè ïîâ"ÿçàíîþ ç ³ðàíöÿìè. Íàçèâàëàñÿ òàê ÿêàñü ïðîâ³äíà â³éñüêîâà ñòðàòà, à êîëè öå ì³ñöå ïîñ³ëè íîðìàíè, òî ïåðåáðàëè ñîá³ ³ íàçâó. Öå ñîö³àëüíà íàçâà, íå åòí³÷íà, ïðîñòî îçíà÷ຠãîëîâíîãî "ïàõàíà", à ïàõàíîì òèì ìîæå áóòè õòî çàâãîäíî, áóäü-ÿêèé íàð³ä (àáî íàâ³òü çá³ãîâèñüêî áàíäèò³â ç óñ³õ ê³íö³â ñâ³òó, ÿê öå áóëî ó Êèºâ³). Ó öüîìó ñìèñë³ äóæå äîáðå âìîòèâîâàíîþ âèãëÿäຠñó÷àñíà íàçâà Ìîñêîâùèíè:)))

Òà é "äíàïðàñòàäñüêà" âåðñ³ÿ âàðòà óâàãè. Êè¿â ì³ã áóòè ñòîëèöåþ Ãåðìàíàð³êà. Íà öå âêàçóþòü çîêðåìà îïèñè Äíàïðàñòàäà, äî òîãî æ ì³ñòî º ðîçòàøîâàíå ÿêðàç ó öåíòð³ éîãî äåðæàâè. Îñíîâíà ìàñà ãîò³â í³áèòî îñåëèëàñÿ ï³âäåíí³øå, àëå íàâðÿä ÷è Ãåðìàíàð³ê çàñíóâàâ ñòîëèöþ ïîñåðåä ñòåïó, òà é çâàæèìî íà òàìòåøí³ ïðèðîäí³ óìîâè.

Íó äîáðå, íàé áóäóòü ³ ãîòè, ÿê òîá³ âæå òàê õî÷åòüñÿ:)  ïðèíöèï³, ìóøó âèçíàòè, ùî ó ïîëÿí ñòðóêòóðà ðîäèíè ³ òèï ïîõîâàííÿ áóëè ãåðìàíñüêèìè.

Îäèí ³ òîé ñàìèé òóñíÿê òî çâè÷àéíî, ö³êàâî. :) Äî ðå÷³, ìàïà í³áè ï³äòâåðäæóº òàêó âåðñ³þ. Òîáòî ðîêñîëÿí³â çíàõîäèìî ñàìå òàì, äå çà ê³ëüêà ñòîð³÷ ïåðåä òèì áóëè öàðñüê³ ñêèòè. Îãëÿíü:

Òàì ³ öàðñüê³ ñàðìàòè òàêîæ ïðèñóòí³, ðàçîì ç ðîêñîëàíàìè. Òîáòî ñîö³àëüíà ñòðóêòóðà ó ñêèò³â ³ ñàðìàò³â òîòîæíÿ. À àëàíè - ïðîâ³äíå ñàðìàòñüêå ïëåì"ÿ, ðîêñîëàíè òàêèì ÷èíîì - öàðñüê³ àëàíè, ÿê ðàí³øå áóëè öàðñüê³ ñêèòè, òîáòî ïàí³âí³: ðîêñ - á³ëèé, ñâ³òëèé, â³ëüíèé, áëàãîðîäíèé ³ íàðåøò³ öàðñüêèé. À òàêîæ ó ãåîãðàô³÷íîìó çíà÷åíí³: á³ë³ - íèæí³, òîáòî ï³âäåíí³, ÷îðí³ - ï³âí³÷í³, ñêèòè-îðà÷³, àáî çàëåæíå â³ä öàðñüêèõ íàñåëåííÿ. Òàê ñàìî áóëî ³ â àëàí³â (Ñòðàáîí ïîä³ëÿº àëàí³â-àîðñ³â íà âåðõí³õ (àëàíè-äîíö³, ó äîíñüêîìó ñòåïó), ³ íèæí³õ (Öåíòð.Ïåðåäêàâêàççÿ), ³ òàê ñàìî ùå é äîñ³ ó îñåòèí³â. Âåðõí³ çàéìàþòüñÿ ïåðåâàæíî ñ³ëüñüêèì ãîñïîäàðñòâîì (îðà÷³), à íèæí³ - ïàñòóõè, òîáòî êî÷óþòü çà ñòàäàìè çà çâè÷êîþ ñâî¿õ äàëåêèõ ïðàùóð³â. ßêùî ï³òè ùå äàë³ ó ö³é àíàëî㳿, òî â Óêðà¿í³ áóâ òàêèé ñàìèé ðîçïîä³ë íà ï³âäåííèõ, íèæí³õ, â³ëüíèõ êîçàê³â, ³ ï³âí³÷íå çàëåæíå íàñåëåííÿ, îðà÷³â.
Ñòðàáîí ïèøå, ùî ðîêñîëàíè - îñòàíí³ ç â³äîìèõ éîìó ñêèò³â, ùî ìåøêàþòü çà Áîðèñôåíîì ²íø³ äæåðåëà òàêîæ ó âóçüêîìó ñìèñë³ â³äíîñÿòü ðîêñîëàí äî ñàðìàò³â, à ó øèðøîìó - äî ñêèò³â (Ïòîëåìåé, Ôëàâ³é, Ïëèí³é Ñòàðøèé). Ôëàâ³é íàçèâຠàëàí³â ÷àñòèíîþ ñêèò³â, ùî æèâóòü íàâêîëîÒàíà¿ñà ³ Ìåîòèäè. Ñòåôàí ³çàíò³éñüêèé: "àîðñè - íàð³ä ñêèòñüêèé". Åâñòàô³é: ñàâðîìàòè - ñêèòñüêå ïëåì"ÿ. Ëóê³àí: òîòîæí³ñòü îäÿãó ³ ìîâè ó ñêèò³â ³ àëàí, ò³ëüêè ó àëàí³â âîëîññÿ êîðîòøå.² îñü ùå ïåðåêîíëèâå ñâ³ä÷åííÿ Îâ³ä³ÿ Íàñîíà, ÿêèé çìóøåíèé áóâ æèòè íà ÷îðíîìîðñüêîìó óçáåðåææ³ ó ðàéîí³ ñó÷àñíî¿ Ðóìóí³¿ ³ íàâ³òü âèâ÷èâ, çà éîãî ïîâ³äîìëåííÿì, ñàðìàòñüêó ìîâó, ÿêó â³í ó ³íøîìó ì³ñö³ íàçèâຠñêèòñüêîþ. Âîíè æ íå ìîæóòü âñ³ ïîìèëÿòèñÿ.
À ùîäî Ãåðîäîòà ç àìàçîíêàìè, òî íå ò³ëüêè â³í ïðî öå ïèñàâ. Òè ñóìí³âàºøñÿ ó ðåàëüíîñòè àìàçîíîê? Òàê îò, íå ò³ëüêè ³ñíóâàëè, à éìîâ³ðíî áóëè íàøèìè ïðàáàáöÿìè: ó 30% ñêèòñüêèõ æ³íî÷èõ ïîõîâàííÿõ ñòåïîâîãî Ïîäí³ïðîâ"ÿ çíàéäåíî çáðîþ, à â äåÿêèõ âèïàäêàõ íàâ³òü ðåøòêè êîíÿ (ϳâí³÷íèé Êàâêàç).

Ñþäè ìàáóòü ñë³ä â³äíåñòè áàãàòî ñë³â:
îêð³ì âæå çãàäàíèõ Rex òà ðîêñ-
àíãë³éñüê³ Royal, Red (îñü òîá³ ñîö³àëüíà ïðèíàëåæí³ñòü òà êîë³ð îäðàçó) òà, ìîæëèâî, óêðà¿íñüê³ ðóäèé òà ðîæåâèé.

À ðóñèé? Îçíà÷ຠñâ³òëèé â³äò³íîê. Äî ðå÷³, ó ôðàíöóçüêèõ äæåðåëàõ Ãàííó ßðîñëàâíó êëè÷óòü ÷åðåç ðàç òî Ãàííîþ Ðóñüêîþ, òî Ãàííîþ Ðóäîþ. ² ùå ó ôð.ìîâ³ òîãî ñàìîãî êîðåíÿ ñëîâî "õèòðèé".

Íåîáîâ"ÿçêîâî. Îñü òîá³ äâà ïðèêëàäè: ñëîâåíè (ôàêòè÷íî òðè íàðîäè çóñòð³÷àºìî ï³ä òàêîþ íàçâîþ: ñëîâåíö³, ñëîâàêè, ñëîâåíè ³ëüìåíñüê³, íàéï³âí³÷í³øå ç óñ³õ ñëîâ. ïëåìåí).

Àëå òóò åòèìîëîã³ÿ ïðîçîðà - öå åòí³÷íå, âîíè âñ³ ñëîâ"ÿíè.

Àáî æ âîëüñüêè â êåëüò³â. Çóñòð³÷àºìî òèõ âîëüñüê³â ïî ê³ëüêîõ äóæå â³ääàëåíèõ îäíå â³ä îäíîãî ì³ñöÿõ îäðàçó. Ó ï³âí³÷í³é Ôðàíö³¿, ó ñó÷àñí³é Þãîñëà⳿ òà Áîëãàð³¿, áà íàâ³òü ó ×åõ³¿.

À âîëèíÿíè?

Äî ðå÷³, ÷åðåç òå ìàáóòü, â áàãàòî ñòîë³òü ï³çí³øå, ãåðìàíö³ ìàëî íå âñ³õ êåëüò³â (ðîìàí³çîâàíèõ) îõðåñòèëè âåëüõàìè. ² ùå ö³êàâèíêà: ðîìàí³çîâàí³ ïðåäêè ðóìóí³â ïðîçâàëèñÿ ñâîãî ÷àñó âëîõàìè (â³äîì³ ï³ä òàêîþ íàçâîþ äåñü ç ê³íöÿ ²Õ ñò.), ï³çí³øå íàçâà òðàíñôîðìóâàëàñÿ ó "âàëàõè". ßêéè òóò ìîæå áóòè çâ"ÿçîê ç êåëüòàìè? Âåëèêå ïèòàííÿ...

Îñü äîêëàäíî íà öþ òåìó http://www.nestor.md/Russian/Ehrlich2.htm

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