VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, [6] ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 17:26:02 10/24/01 Wed
Author: Òðåéòÿê
Subject: Re: ùîäî ïðèâàòèçàö³¿
In reply to: Åðíñò Çàãðàâà 's message, "Re: ùîäî ïðèâàòèçàö³¿" on 13:45:29 10/13/01 Sat

Íàö³îíàë³çóâàòè äîö³ëüíî ëèøå íàéá³ëüø ïðèáóòêîâ³ ï³äïðèºìñòâà, ³ çà òó æ ö³íó, çà ÿêó ¿õ ïðèâàòèçàòîðè êóïèëè êîëèñü. Òî áóëè äîñèòü ñì³øí³ ö³íè ³ äåðæàâà çäàòíà çà ò³ æ ãðîø³ âèêóïèòè ¿õ íàçàä. Çáèòêîâ³ çðîçóì³ëî íå ïîòð³áí³.

Íàñê³ëüêè ÿ çíàþ, á³ëüø³ñòü ï³äïðèºìñòâ (â ò.÷. âæå ïðèâàòèçîâàíèõ) â Óêðà¿í³ º ÿêðàç çáèòêîâèìè. Âò³ì, öå ìîæå áóòè ò³ëüêè îô³ö³éíà ñòàòèñòèêà, à íàñïðàâä³ âîíè ìîæóòü áóòè ïðèáóòêîâèìè, ò³ëüêè âñ³ íàäõîäæåííÿ éäóòü "ó ò³íü", äå âëàñíå, ïåðåáóâຠäóæå çíà÷íà ÷àñòèíà óêð. åêîíîì³êè. Îòæå ùîáè âèçíà÷èòè, ÷è âïðàâä³ º ÿêåñü ï³äïðèºìñòâî ïðèáóòêîâèì/çáèòêîâèì, äîâåäåòüñÿ ïðîâåñòè äîâãó ³ íå ïðîñòó ðîáîòó. Öå ïîòðåáóº äî òîãî æ ÷àñó ³ êîøò³â.

Çíîâ òàêè, ÿêùî ï³äïðèºìñòâî çà îñòíàíí³é ÷àñ ïîêàçàëî ñóòòºâå ïîë³ïøåííÿ ðîáîòè, òî íàö³îíàë³çàö³ÿ òåæ ìàáóòü íåäîö³ëüíà

² ùî æ ëèøàºòüñÿ ïîçà öèìè äâîìà âåëèêèìè ãðóïàìè? Ò³, ùî âòðèìóþòü "íóëü-áàëàíñ"?

Íà æàëü íå âòîðîïàâ, ùî âè ïèòàëè ñòîñîâíî 51%. ß ìàâ íà óâàç³, ùî ò³ ï³äïðèºìñòâà, ùî íå º ñòðàòåãè÷íèìè ³ ïîòðàïëÿþòü ó ñêðóòíå ñòàíîâèùå ìîæóòü çàëó÷àòè ïðèâàòí³ âêëàäè, àëå íå á³ëüøå í³æ íà 49%.

Òîáòî ñòðàòåã³÷í³ ï³äïðèºìòñâà º äåðæàâíèìè, à ðåøòà ìîæóòü çàëó÷àòè ïðèâàòíèõ àêö³îíåð³â, àëå íå á³ëüøå ÿê íà 49%. Äóæå
äîáðå. Çàðàç ïîÿñíþþ, ïðî ùî ïèòàâ. ß ìàâ íà óâàç³ äóæå íåâåëèê³ ï³äïðèºìñòâà, ñêàæèìî ç ñîòíåþ-ï³âñîòíåþ ÷è íàâ³òü òðîõè ìåíøå ïðàö³âíèê³â, àëå ÿêå çàéìàºòüñÿ ñàìå âèðîáíèöòâîì ïðîäóêö³¿, à íå º ÿêîþñü âåëèêîþ àãåíö³ºþ ç ñòðàõóâàííÿ ÷è ç ïðîäàæó íåðóõîìîñò³. ×è ìîæå áóòè òàêå ï³äïðèºìñòâî ïðèâàòíèì íà âñ³ 100%?

À ñàìà äåðæàâà ìóñèòü âêëàäàòè êàï³òàëè â óñï³øí³ íàðîäí³ (àêö³îíåðí³) ï³äïðèºìñòâà, ìàþ÷è ç íèõ ïðèáóòîê. ׳òêîãî ïîä³ëó âæå íå áóäå.

Ùå òàêå ïèòàííÿ: îñê³ëüêè, ÿê âæå áóëî âèçíà÷åíî, òàê³ ï³äïðèºìñòâà º äåðæàâíèìè ïðèíàéìí³ íà 51%, àëå ï³äïðèºìòñâî íà ïåâíèé â³äñîòîê âñå-òàêè ïðèâàòíèì, òî ÷è ìîæå áóòè îäèí ç âåëèêèõ ïðèâàòíèõ àêö³îíåð³â ãîëîâîþ Ðàäè äèðåêòîð³â?

À ÿê ñàìàì ä³ÿ íàçèâàòèìåòüñÿ – çì³íà âëàñíîñò³, ÷è ïðàâ êîðèñòóâàííÿ, òî òî º ³íòåðåñîì ëèøå ÷èñòî¿ íàóêè.

Ìåí³ óÿâëÿºòüñÿ, ùî òóò áàãàòî çàëåæèòü ùå é â³ä çàêîí³â â äåðæàâ³; çà òî¿ óìîâè, çâè÷àéíî, ùî ò³ çàêîíè âèêîíóþòüñÿ :)

Öå íå ìîæå áóòè ð³øåííÿì ïðèéíÿòèì ðàç ³ íàçàâæäè

³ðíî. Ðàç ³ íàçàâæäè âçàãàë³ í³÷îãî íå áóâຠ:). Àëå áóâຠÍÀÄÎÂÃÎ.

À ïðèâàòíèé ñåêòîð ïîòð³áíèé, îñîáëèâî äð³áíèé. Öå òîé âèïàäîê êîëè ³ ñïðàâä³ ïðîÿâëÿþòüñÿ ïåðåâàãè «õàçÿ¿íà» íàä óïðàâë³íöåì.

Çã³äíèé àáñîëþòíî. Öå áóëà äóæå âåëèêà ïîìèëêà â ÑÐÑÐ, ùî ïðàêòè÷íî çàáîðîíèëè ïðèâàòíèé ñåêòîð. Íà ì³é ïîãëÿä, ïðèâàòíèìè ìîæóòü áóòè ãîòåë³, êðàìíèö³, ìàéñòåðí³, ð³çí³ àãåíö³¿ òîùî, àëå â æîäíîìó ðàç³ íå âåëèêå âèðîáíèöòâî, ÿêå äî òîãî æ ìîæå áóòè äæåðåëîì íàäïðèáóòê³â.
Äî ðå÷³, ÿê íà âàøó äóìêó, ïðèâàòí³ áàíêè ìàþòü ïðàâî íà ³ñíóâàííÿ ÷è í³?


À êð³ì òîãî âàæëèâîþ º ìîæëèâ³ñòü âèáîðó. Âàñ íå âèçíàþòü íà âåëèêîìó ï³äïðèºìñòâ³. Ââàñ çàò³ðàþòü, âàøó ³äåþ íå ïðèéìàþòü – âè îðãàí³çóºòå âëàñíó êîìïàí³þ ³ ïðîøòîâõóºòå ñâî¿ ³äå¿. Öå âàæëèâå äæåðåëî íîâîââåäåíü ç îäíîãî áîêó, ³ ïî÷óòòÿ ñâîáîäè äëÿ ëþäèíè ç ³íøîãî.

Òóò, íà ìîþ äóìêó, òðåáà íàêëàñòè ïåâí³ îáìåæåííÿ, àáè íå îòðèìàòè ïîò³ì òå, â³ä ÷îãî õî÷åìî âòåêòè. Âëàñíå, íå òå ùîá ÿê³ñü ä³éñí³ îáìåæåííÿ, ùî çàâàæàòèìóòü ðîçâèòêîâ³, àëå ïîïåðåäíüî òðåáà äîáðå ïðîäóìàòè ïîë³òèêó â öüîìó ïèòàíí³.

Ìè ìîæåìî áóäóâàòè äóæå ñïðàâåäëèâå ³ ãàðíå ñóñï³ëüñòâî, àëå ÿêùî âîíî ïðîãðàâàòèìå â òåìïàõ çðîñòàííÿ, òî ãðîìàäÿíå äåðæàâè, ùî ñòàðàëàñÿ äëÿ íèõ, ïåðøèìè æ ³ ðîçòîï÷óòü ¿¿. Ðîçòîï÷óòü ÿê òàêó, ùî íå âïîðàëàñÿ, ùî íå â쳺, ùî íå çäàòíà.

Ùîäî òåìï³â çðîñòàííÿ, òî íèí³øí³ òåìïè íå â³÷í³. Ðàí³øå ÷è ï³çí³øå ñòàíåòüñÿ çàíåïàä. Ñòîñîâíî "íåâäÿ÷íèõ ëþäåé", òî ÿ òàê ãàäàþ, ùî ëþäå çàâæäè º íåçàäîâîëåí³. Âëàñíå, ñïðàâà ç "ðîçòîïòàííÿì" íå çà"ÿçàíà ò³ëüêè íà åêîíîì³ö³, ïðè÷èíè ìîæóòü áóòè é ÷èñòî ïîë³òè÷í³. À ëþäå, çíàºòå, òàê³, ùî ñüîãîäí³ òàê äóìàþòü, à çàâòðà çîâñ³ì ³íàêøå. Ïñèõîëîã³ÿ. Äîêîíàíèé ³ äîñë³äæåíèé ôàêò, ìåä³ÿ âïëèâຠíàâ³òü íà íàéñò³éê³øèõ äî ïðîïàãàíäè, à òàêèõ - ìåíø³ñòü. Òîé, õòî âîëî䳺 ³íôîðìàö³ºþ, òîé âîëî䳺 ñâ³òîì.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[ Contact Forum Admin ]

Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.