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Date Posted: 14:41:44 03/06/00 Mon
Author: Rette
Author Host/IP: techservices.jeffco.edu / 204.184.81.139
Subject: Burton's popularity

Said it before and I keep saying it--this man's music is REALLY good. Now I hope I don't say something wrong here or too controversial. I know he has many, many devoted fans. But why am I scrambling around trying to acquire oop cds and looking desperately forward to a tour that may or may not come off. In other words, (gulp! I'm really gonna say this!)
since he's arguably (but who's arguing?) the most talented artist in pop/rock music, why isn't he even more famous? Is it because he's as famous as he wants to be (but fame means more people hear the music!) Is he too good? Is it karma? Would more people hear the music if he were from the US instead of Canada? Those of you who have followed BC from the beginning (I envy you!) please help me out. And I hope I haven't opened opened a can of worms.

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Replies:

[> Re: Burton's popularity -- bcpcfan, 15:36:26 03/06/00 Mon [1] (NoHost/208.130.25.77)

> Said it before and I keep saying it--this man's music
> is REALLY good. Now I hope I don't say something wrong
> here or too controversial. I know he has many, many
> devoted fans. But why am I scrambling around trying
> to acquire oop cds and looking desperately forward to
> a tour that may or may not come off. In other words,
> (gulp! I'm really gonna say this!)
> since he's arguably (but who's arguing?) the most
> talented artist in pop/rock music, why isn't he even
> more famous? Is it because he's as famous as he wants
> to be (but fame means more people hear the music!) Is
> he too good? Is it karma? Would more people hear the
> music if he were from the US instead of Canada? Those
> of you who have followed BC from the beginning (I envy
> you!) please help me out. And I hope I haven't opened
> opened a can of worms.

An oft asked and perplexing question. There are many better informed folks who can probably shed a lot more light on this. I for one am in total agreement, it's a lamentable situation.


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[> Re: Burton's popularity -- MF, 18:25:20 03/06/00 Mon [1] (spider-tk081.proxy.aol.com/152.163.206.211)

Possibly because of poor mgt and poor decisions, in part being from the Great White North, in part because fame has little to do with being talented nor should it be equated with talent. Is Britney a tremendous talent because her records went multi-platinum? And to share an extreme analogy- when JS Bach died he was a respected regional church organist- a couple hundred years later many considered him the father of western music. I think in the highly disposible world of pop music, Burton's music will one day be considered as well-worth collecting and preserving.


> Said it before and I keep saying it--this man's music
> is REALLY good. Now I hope I don't say something wrong
> here or too controversial. I know he has many, many
> devoted fans. But why am I scrambling around trying
> to acquire oop cds and looking desperately forward to
> a tour that may or may not come off. In other words,
> (gulp! I'm really gonna say this!)
> since he's arguably (but who's arguing?) the most
> talented artist in pop/rock music, why isn't he even
> more famous? Is it because he's as famous as he wants
> to be (but fame means more people hear the music!) Is
> he too good? Is it karma? Would more people hear the
> music if he were from the US instead of Canada? Those
> of you who have followed BC from the beginning (I envy
> you!) please help me out. And I hope I haven't opened
> opened a can of worms.


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[> Re: Burton's popularity -- VfD, 18:39:58 03/06/00 Mon [1] (spider-tr083.proxy.aol.com/152.163.201.213)

This is a complicated subject. IMO, a lot of the problem harkens back to his Guess Who days with a record label (RCA) which didn't promote their records very well and tended to screw up when choosing singles, looking for hook-laden songs from a band which wasn't focussed on produced such. TGW would've been better served had RCA pushed the songs that best represented the groups strengths, "All Hashed Out", not "Follow Your Daughter Home".
Another problem, was that although TGW were strong in the midwestern US as well as Canada, to the east/west coast biased media, this was equivalent to the tree falling in the forest that noone hears.
As for the solo career, I'm mystified to this day that after "Stand Tall"'s strong showing, BC failed to get a follow-up (stateside, anyway), considering the other good songs on the debut LP. And how did "My Own Way To Rock" not take over the world? "Come On By" also had all the ingrediants (slightly naughty, overdrive guitar, Seger song) to be a smash.
Unfortunately, with the record industry, when you stop having hits, they've got you pegged as a has-been, yesterday's news (it's all downhill). New faces with new sounds are preferred over old faces no matter what they sound like all too often.
After that, I think BC's endurance may've waned (considering the treadmill he'd been on since the late 60's, it's hard to wonder). Had he continued touring, he probably could've maintained the kind of fan base which TGW enjoyed even when their record sales were not that impressive, yet enough to continue being distributed.
On one hand, I lament the "wasted" years where he wasn't directing his creative energies toward recording new songs, but perhaps even Burton Cummings is permitted to take a little time for living. Maybe all this inactivity has been our payback for all those 2 LP's a year days. I do think that must be evened out already by now.


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[> Re: Burton's popularity -- Scott, Winnipeg, 18:48:20 03/06/00 Mon [1] (cflow3.mts.net/205.200.28.46)

I truly think being Canadian has a lot to do with it. Until recently (the last 10 years) not many music stars from Canada have achieved the status elsewhere in the world that they have back home.
The Guess Who certainly were a huge act all over the world, but only a hand full of there songs entered Billboard's top 10. As far as Burton's solo stuff, only "Stand Tall" achieved top 10 status, but here in Canada Burton has quite a list of standards which are still heard each day on stations across the country.
Look at it this way. In the U.S., the majority of the hits are homegrown, as they are in the U.K. In most cases, a recording artist does best at home.
People like Bryan Adams and Alanis Morrissette have changed it for Canada in the last decade and people are starting to take note of Canda's music talent, but back in the 70's very few ever made it. Most were limited, if they were lucky, to one or two hits outside the country.
The other BIG reason could be the fact that after the DREAM OF A CHILD album, Burton's releases have been exclusive to Canada (his albums, anyway), but that's another story (see WOMAN LOVE CD re-issue liner notes)...


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[> Re: Burton's popularity -- abble dabble, 21:06:36 03/06/00 Mon [1] (1cust183.tnt7.sfo3.da.uu.net/63.23.20.183)

> Said it before and I keep saying it--this man's music
> is REALLY good. Now I hope I don't say something wrong
> here or too controversial. I know he has many, many
> devoted fans. But why am I scrambling around trying
> to acquire oop cds and looking desperately forward to
> a tour that may or may not come off. In other words,
> (gulp! I'm really gonna say this!)
> since he's arguably (but who's arguing?) the most
> talented artist in pop/rock music, why isn't he even
> more famous? Is it because he's as famous as he wants
> to be (but fame means more people hear the music!) Is
> he too good? Is it karma? Would more people hear the
> music if he were from the US instead of Canada? Those
> of you who have followed BC from the beginning (I envy
> you!) please help me out. And I hope I haven't opened
> opened a can of worms.
Good topic. I think it started with the R C A days. He was not a manufactured product someone could control. He was/Is the real deal. The media etc. simply had no idea of what to do with someone with this much charisma,talent,and convictions that got where they got without their help. His its "My Music" dont screw with it attitude probably pissed off the wrong people as far as global popularity is concerned. I for one am glad he is what he is, and that he is still willing to share his gift with those of us who care and appreciate his talents.


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[> Re: Burton's popularity -- AW, 22:14:45 03/06/00 Mon [1] (proxy-555.public.rwc.webtv.net/209.240.200.145)

Yeah, some good points made here. I have to say though that airplay in the states has to be a huge factor in the GW latter years and Burton's solo career. (let's not forget the late 70's was the big disco FAD era) #2- I think radio tried to stuff Burton in the "ballad only" mode. If it's not played in one city and not in another, how can it do well on the national charts? (these days it helps to have play on VH1 or MTv)

How many of you have heard UCAA on US radio? Me- never. didn't evan know it existed til I was checking out a webtv unit in Sears in Aug 98.


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[> [> Re: Burton's popularity -- Shasta, 07:18:29 03/07/00 Tue [1] (spider-to076.proxy.aol.com/152.163.204.34)

Have to agree here. How many of you have requested BC music to be played in your towns and find out that the radio stations only have GW music, and nothing afterwards? And I'm not just talking about young DJ's, but older, more experienced people who ought to know.


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[> Re: Burton's popularity -- MMaypole, 07:43:24 03/07/00 Tue [1] (pm1-16.foxvalley.net/207.252.105.80)

a can of worms - would those be polycheates or nematods?
Popularity? My understanding is that popularity waxes and wanes with no clear criteria. BC has great talent. Popularity? who is measuring?


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[> Re: Burton's popularity -- Dropping Pin, 09:18:56 03/07/00 Tue [1] (NoHost/199.20.64.4)

This is a frustrating subject for all of his devoted fans. It has something to do with his independent attitude. However, the key moment was when MOWTR was released. I called a local radio station in NY to request a song and they didn't know it was out there. Someone said Come On By was a good choice and I agree. It just wasn't promoted enough. When he toured for that album and played NY, the Times gave him a good review but it was a small article and buried in the back of the paper. The reason he's not more known is only frustrating because it's hard to get info. about him here in the States, especially on the East Coast. I could go on much longer but I wll say that we have been blessed because he is still out there singing his heart out, sounds as good as ever and 2000 has the makings of a great year for BC and the GW!


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[> Re: Burton's popularity -- Mark Mars, 17:48:26 03/08/00 Wed [1] (gateway3.srp.gov/148.126.100.111)

There are many talented artists who never achieved commercial success and for various reasons. Van Morrison achieved critical success, but outside of Brown Eyed Girl and Moondance receive no commercial success. Bonnie Raitt languished in obscurity until a breakout album, had some success and is back into obscurity.

The Guess Who and Burton seemed to be in a never never land where they got labeled by critics as commercial and the commercial market couldn't put a label on them. The Guess Who mixed pop/hook laden songs with varied artistic efforts. What were they? a pop/ballad group, a get down rock and roll band, an experimental, cool culture band? You couldn't pin them down. That's the reason I like them and may be the reason for the lack of success. How would you define/categorize Burton's solo efforts?


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[> [> Re: Burton's popularity -- AW, 18:41:39 03/12/00 Sun [1] (proxy-566.public.rwc.webtv.net/209.240.200.156)

I think US radio tried to "limit" Burton to a ballad mode. I also always had a feeling that unevan radio play affected chart positions. I do know that Flasher and Broken were both played here in Rochester, but one or the other in other cities. (I know this becuase the subject had come up before), so that pretty much confirms the feelings I had when I was a teenager, at least for me.


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