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Date Posted: 15:16:29 04/29/02 Mon
Author: stored
Subject: R1

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Doris
Monday April 29, 2002 at 13:48

That happens to some minds. They're confronted by something both bigger than their
comprehension and better than their desires, and they pretend it's not worth considering.

I've seen it often. It's called "denial". Some people grow out of it, many don't. Perhaps
someday you'll be able to encompass all that I say. Maybe not. Sounds like you're choosing to
be small. That's a tough road, Mrs. Thumb.

Ten Megaton Solution
Monday April 29, 2002 at 13:45

Not that anyone here thinks Pat Robertson is a worthy consumer of oxygen, but Mr. Pat Goes
to the Track

dori
In Response To Doofus Ten Meg
Monday April 29, 2002 at 13:45

That is precisely why I said his opinion is worth the paper it is printed on, as is yours BTW.
These words we're all reading are not printed on paper, therefore they are printed on nothing.
Get it? I'll say it another way. I have no interest in his or your opinion--they are no longer of
interest or worth to me.

GerryB.
In Response To Inquisitive
Monday April 29, 2002 at 13:23

People do not become "children of God" until they are born again. Before that they are just
creatures that He created.

Murray
In Response To Ctaj
Monday April 29, 2002 at 13:21

Gee, Jeff, I didn't know my opinion mattered that much to you. In any case, assuming it does,
here is my answer:

MURRAY'S ANSWER TO JEFF

GerryB.
Monday April 29, 2002 at 13:20

"58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
John 8:58(KJV).

Here He is referring to the passage in Exodus where God told Moses, "14And God said unto
Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM
hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the
children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac,
and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial
unto all generations."
Exodus 3:14-15(KJV).

God was telling Moses that He is the eternal, self existent God.

~Inquisitive~
In Response To ctaj
Monday April 29, 2002 at 13:07

That some men think that they are gods because they are the children of God..considering
themselves to be above everyone else. But they shall die like men, and fall like one of the
princes.

Ten Megaton Solution
Monday April 29, 2002 at 13:02

And I'm so glad that the Catholic Church has established "zero tolerance". Los Angeles
Archdiocese Cardinal Mahoney just released one more priest's name to the cops...for crimes
committed 35 years ago. It's amazing. According to Mahoney, there hasn't been a single
instance of Priestly diddling in LA since 1970.

Anyone believe this?

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Doris
Monday April 29, 2002 at 13:00

Second, what you believe doesn't matter a hill of beans to me and I assess the worth of
your words at the same value as the paper they're printed on.

It's good to know someone is printing out hard copies of this forum. How do you index it all?
At least I'm assuming you print it out, because why else would you say it's printed?

And it does seem to me that some here freight intellectual discussion with emotional
undercurrents that have no bearing on the topic. Perhaps we should dig into the Bible and find
the best recipes?

`Ctaj
In Response To Murray
Monday April 29, 2002 at 13:00

Only way I can see Jeff's remarks being worth the paper they're printed on - or not. *-)

Don't just sit there, Murray. Jump right in and destroy my worthless posts by showing us all
where Jesus definitively claimed to be God in the flesh.

`Ctaj
In Response To Inquisitive
Monday April 29, 2002 at 12:58

In Psalms 82:6, the same is said by God, and Jesus said "I" said.

Psalms 82:6 - "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most high."

So, everybody's both gods and children of gods, not just Jesus.

You said it, too. Does that make you God?

Murray
In Response To dori
Monday April 29, 2002 at 12:57

Are you printing the forum out on paper? Only way I can see Jeff's remarks being worth the
paper they're printed on - or not. *-)

`Ctaj
In Response To dori
Monday April 29, 2002 at 12:53

(and if you saw a point in her meanderings, you're even smarter than you claim to be).

That's impossible.

dori
In Response To Ctaj
Monday April 29, 2002 at 12:50

Re: Re your Oh please! LOL! response to Coinkydink's 5:43 post, I believe that if more
people in the world shared her views, and fewer people had yours, the world would be a
more civilized place. First, my "oh please" was in response to her inane series of posts to me
and not to a specific point (and if you saw a point in her meanderings, you're even smarter than
you claim to be). Second, what you believe doesn't matter a hill of beans to me and I assess
the worth of your words at the same value as the paper they're printed on. You have a nice
day, ya hear?

~Inquisitive~
In Response To ctaj
Monday April 29, 2002 at 12:49

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
In Psalms 82:6, the same is said by God, and Jesus said "I" said.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus saith unto him, Thou has said: never the less I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the
Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Ctaj
Monday April 29, 2002 at 12:31

It was probably blasphemy to claim the Pharisees were liars, too. Mr. J could have been
caught in a Catch 22.

`Ctaj
In Response To Inquisitive
Monday April 29, 2002 at 12:21

A discerning reader can see that what Jesus was saying was, "If you want to believe that I am
God in the flesh, I'm going to let you believe it, but I'm not going to lie about it and claim it
myself."

`Ctaj
In Response To Inquisitive
Monday April 29, 2002 at 12:18

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Nope. Nowhere does Jesus say, "I am God in the human flesh."

On His last alleged last day, when Pontius Pilate asked, "Are you the King of the Jews?" Jesus
reportedly replied, "You say so." That's not an admission of the accusation, much less a claim
that He was God in the flesh.

Ten Megaton Solution
Monday April 29, 2002 at 12:09

We are not asked to believe the Bible, but to believe the One whom the Bible reveals (see
John 5:39-40 ).

Not possible. If the Bible is incorrect (it is, not one of you here is capable of believing every
single word of that book is literal truth. I've proved that. If you disagree with me, I'll start
discussing God's manipulation of Pharoah again.) And if the reference material is false, it
cannot be relied absolutely for anything.

How many of you people think George Washington couldn't tell lies?

~Inquisitive~
Monday April 29, 2002 at 12:09

John 10:30-34
I and [my] Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of
those works do ye stone me?
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and
because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in
your law, I said, Ye are gods?

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Monday April 29, 2002 at 11:52

The thing which got Him in trouble with the Jewish religious leaders was when He claimed
to be God in human flesh. This was, to them, blasphemy and was punishable by death.

But He didn't say that.

GerryB.
Monday April 29, 2002 at 11:45

If you are speaking of the sermon on the mount as quoted in Matthew 5-7 He didn't say that
any of them were not to be changed in their original intent. He, in most cases added to them.
"17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy,
but to fulfil."
Matthew 5:17(KJV)

The thing which got Him in trouble with the Jewish religious leaders was when He claimed to
be God in human flesh. This was, to them, blasphemy and was punishable by death.

Murray
In Response To Ctaj
Monday April 29, 2002 at 11:44

No, didn't watch but about 5 mins of the three games. Funny story, though. Those kinds of
things are what give baseball a charm the other games can't match. To me, John Kruk had one
of the best baseball attitudes I've ever seen. When some lady challenged him about his beer gut
and how could he hope to be taken seriously as a professional athlete with a gut like that --
yada yada -- he said, "Lady, you're mistaken. I'm not an athlete -- I'm a ballplayer." Gotta love
it.

GerryB.
Monday April 29, 2002 at 11:37

"36If the Son (Jesus is here speaking of Himself as the only begotten Son of God-GB)
therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."
John 8:36(KJV).

The ultimate in freedom is what we have in our service to our precious redeemer, Jesus Christ.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Monday April 29, 2002 at 11:32

As I recall, Jesus also said that some parts of the Mosaic Law (OT) were nonsense and he
rebelled against them. That's what got him cross-wise with the jewish leadership.

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