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Sight & Sound
This forum is school related so please no cursing.This forum is here to let us talk to those we can't reach normally along with other event information.
R1 -- stored, 07:08:49 04/22/02 Mon

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

dori
In Response To Sim
Monday April 22, 2002 at 9:01

Well, ain't we a pair? You, the senile old man, and me the emotionally unstable mental
lightweight! Hee hee... It just keeps getting funnier, doesn't it? I'd love to stay and talk about
meatloaf with you, Sim, but I have trouble with all these here letters and numbers on this
keyboard. Why, I am surprised I was able to even form cognitive thought, I'm such a retard. I
think I'll go fix my hair for work, that is if I can focus on the way to get to the mirror. *-)

Now, you try to keep from drooling all over the place while I'm gone, okay? ~grin~

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry
Monday April 22, 2002 at 8:53

" I think it's all supposition based on trying to decifer the ramblings of a senile old man." No,
the old man who wrote Revelations, upon which most of the sermons I've heard about the End
Times were based, was very old when he wrote it. I equate it with the ramblings of
Nostradamus...people will tell you all his prophecy means soemthing too, but it's mostly
gibberish. IMHO

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Monday April 22, 2002 at 8:51

Shaking my head here. The audacity of that woman coming in here and acting like she's a
heavyweight intellectual has me rolling on the floor! What a hoot.

HAY, you know me, I have to "ruffle some feathers", "Rub the cat's fur the wrong way" from
time to time, it's my "Nature". Nowatimean??? LOL

*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori
Monday April 22, 2002 at 8:50

" It's obvious you don't ever go back and read the whole thread of a conversation or you'd be
embarrassed by your shallowness. Find someone else to give your sanctimonious remarks to,
will you? You have too high an opinion of yourself and it is grating. LOL!" Actually I do go
back and read ALL the posts. sometimes it is just too much to reply to, especially since most
of the time no one is here to talk to when I am here.


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 06:55:25 04/22/02 Mon

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

RonB
In Response To Ten Megs
Monday April 22, 2002 at 4:28

Heck, all Catholics still claiming to be Catholic today are "cafeteria Catholics".

Here's one who's not.

As for the pedaphile priests -- I agree. Scandal within the Church always does much more
damage than attacks from outside the Church. But the Church has come through crisis before,
which proves that, despite all the ways imperfect men can screw it up, the Church, itself, is still
infallible and the gates of hell can not prevail against it.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Murray
Monday April 22, 2002 at 3:12

All you are saying by your comments is that you are a cafeteria Catholic

Heck, all Catholics still claiming to be Catholic today are "cafeteria Catholics". Leastwasy I
haven't heard that the Pope has ordered Cardinal Law to resign, which means the Pope himself
condones the shuttling of pedaphile priests around America. Which means the Pope himself is
condoning rape, child sexual abuse, and obstruction of justice.

And if that's the case, no self-respecting person would continue their association with that
Church.

RonB
In Response To dori
Monday April 22, 2002 at 2:56

New messages at AntiVenom and a marathon with Pac at True Church. Good night/morning.
May God be with you and all of good will.

RonB
In Response To Ctaj
Monday April 22, 2002 at 2:55

The more plausible story is that he didn't die on the cross, Joseph rescued him and never
placed him in the tomb, and that the "vision" seen afterward was of a resuscutated Jesus,
not a resurrected one.

That's only the "more plausible" story because you come in with the preconcieved notion that
Christ couldn't have died. This "plausible" story forgets to take into account that the Romans
were very efficient executioners and that they confirmed Christ was dead by piercing Him with
a lance (which was the Roman custom).

Sunny
In Response To Gotta bake cookies....
Monday April 22, 2002 at 0:52

An old pagan Sunday night tradition round our neck of the woods. (G) bbl..I think

Sunny
In Response To Sim~
Monday April 22, 2002 at 0:52

Mercy, you been listening to old "what'shisname" again, he'll have you leaving here on a UFO.
LOL

LOL it sure is true that when Jesus comes back as obviously as the lightening flashes from the
east to west, to the majority, it * WILL * be a UFO. Literally, unidentified, and unknown, to
them. (G)huggz~

Sunny
In Response To oops...sorry dudes
Monday April 22, 2002 at 0:49

I see that last post should have gone to Gerry. Well Ger, you and brother Sim are sure the
sweetest robots I ever posted with. huggz~

Sunny
In Response To Sim~
Monday April 22, 2002 at 0:47

Sunny doesn't need her Bible. She has Roy Masters to tell her everything. Yep

Sorry darlin, but my radio pastor did NOT tell me that true believers will go through the Great
Tribulation. I saw this one all on my own. (G) I guess you make statements like this since you
are the robot that's been programmed like YOUR pastor, huh? Yep (G) huggz~

dori
In Response To Gerry and Sim
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:40

Shaking my head here. The audacity of that woman coming in here and acting like she's a
heavyweight intellectual has me rolling on the floor! What a hoot.

G'night Sim. Sleep well!

Gerry, I hope you get that rain, hon. Still praying!

GerryB.
In Response To Sim
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:39

Good night, my brother.

Sleep well and God Bless you.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:36

RE: "We all get what we believe about the Bible and God from what someone else has taught
us...UNLESS, we are listening to the Holy spirit...and even then it is filtered through what we
have already been taught, our culture and our personalities. Good night...sleep well. TTFN "

Nope. I get my beliefs from reading the Bible to find out what Jesus Christ taught about it plus
I have God's Holy Spirit to guide me in my studies. You never learned anything at all in Moody
College did you? The present culture has nothing to do with shaping my beliefs as a Christian.
It is opposed to Christian beliefs. You have to remember that I only became a Christian 10
years ago. Before that, I was, according to you, a professional killer and a damn good one at
that.

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:32

My "afternoon nap" just ran out on me, time for bed.

I'll see ya'll tomorrow GLW artdh JKG.

Sim 2
In Response To Coinkdink
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:28

I think it's all supposition based on trying to decifer the ramblings of a senile old man. (What
"old man"???( I know you're not refering to me, so who is it)

No offense to you, but I don't believe anyone can know what those symbolic (if that) writings
really mean (if anything).

Have you been to ALT R1 lately and read what I posted there??

These "symbolic" symbols are all explained in the Bible, it's a "self explanatory book", and it's
quite easy to comprehend if you allow the "Holy Ghost" to teach you.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:27

RE: "I won't be rude to you about this, but I just don't buy all that. I've heard it several
different ways in several different sermons. I think it's all supposition based on trying to decifer
the ramblings of a senile old man. No offense to you, but I don't believe anyone can know
what those symbolic (if that) writings really mean (if anything)."

Are you calling, Paul, the great apostle and missionary to the gentiles a "senile old man?" If I
remember what I read concerning his life he was younger than you are when he was beheaded.
What symbolic writings do you have trouble understanding. I'll be happy to explain them to
you. I don't have the benefit of a Moody Bible College education either. Sounds like you spent
all your time there in the park.

dori
In Response To Coinky
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:27

You're not a bit sorry. You thrive on flitting in and out of here picking at bits and pieces of
posts and taking them out of context. Why not be honest? It's obvious you don't ever go back
and read the whole thread of a conversation or you'd be embarrassed by your shallowness.
Find someone else to give your sanctimonious remarks to, will you? You have too high an
opinion of yourself and it is grating. LOL!

*Coinkydink
In Response To Truth is, Gerry,
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:25

We all get what we believe about the Bible and God from what someone else has taught
us...UNLESS, we are listening to the Holy spirit...and even then it is filtered through what we
have already been taught, our culture and our personalities. Good night...sleep well. TTFN

*Coinkydink
In Response To Ya'll
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:22

I'm about fed up with the certainty that some put on their beliefs...there is NO certainty in any
of it...it is all taken by faith...no proof...until we call come before the Father. TB2 has just as
much possiblility of being right about what happens then as you do or I do or Ctaj does. It's
fine to say, "this is what I think the bible means". But to say, "this is what will happen and I will
rule with Christ and boy, are the rest of you in trouble" (paraphrasing)just doesn't wash.

gotta to go to bed...I'll come back maybe less impatient tomorrow. TTFN

Sim 2
In Response To GerryB
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:19

Sunny doesn't need her Bible. She has Roy Masters to tell her everything. Yep

Yep, yore right, but what can a man tell a "woman".

OH, ya better "DUCK", there'll be in coming rounds shortly. ROFL.

GerryB.
In Response To Faith
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:19

"Faith does not mean believing without evidence. It means believing in realities that go beyond
sense and sight—for which a totally different sort of evidence is required."
JOHN BAILLIE (1741–1806)

*Coinkydink
In Response To Sim
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:17

I won't be rude to you about this, but I just don't buy all that. I've heard it several different
ways in several different sermons. I think it's all supposition based on trying to decifer the
ramblings of a senile old man. No offense to you, but I don't believe anyone can know what
those symbolic (if that) writings really mean (if anything).

*Coinkydink
In Response To Sorry, Dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:12

But I think Murray was seeing things pretty clearly when he said this ..."Like I said, detente
stops with you when there is a conflict or disagreement of some kind. Perhaps you are
incapable of successfully relating to others below anything other than the most superficial level.
Keep it light and airy. Pretend to agree when you really don't just to preserve amity. Never
explore anything in too much depth, never be serious, never really look into ourselves to see
what beliefs drive us. Whine when others mischaracterize you, but run away from the
responsibility of it when you do it yourself. This is what you ask people to do in order to have
a relationship with you." What do you think?

Sim 2
In Response To Coinkdink
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:10

And I thought you were leaving on the first Rapture train out.

I is. Here the sequence of "end time events"

1. rapture
2.tribulation
3. Jesus's physical return
4.Millennium Reign, (when I rule, thousand years)
5.Satan loose, Great White Throne Judgment.
6. Earth/universe burned
New Heaven/Earth, New Jerusalem come down from Heaven to New Earth.

We don't spend eternity "in Heaven", but on the "New Earth". (which will be heaven)

GerryB.
In Response To Sim
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:07

Sunny doesn't need her Bible. She has Roy Masters to tell her everything. Yep.

GerryB.
In Response To Sim
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:05

Guess what? The weather forecasters are telling us that we are going to get a snowstorm
starting tomorrow. We didn't get enough to bother with all winter but now that spring is here
we are going to get a snow storm. Last week we had record high temperatures. Does that
make sense?

Sim 2
In Response To Sunny
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:05

Mercy, you been listening to old "what'shisname" again, he'll have you leaving here on a UFO.
LOL

Read your Bible, History proves God and Jesus doesn't deal with the Jews and Gentiles at the
same time, or in the same manner, the "law and prophets" stopped when Jesus came and
doesn't resume until he leaves, (rapture).

Until the "law and prophets" return, Jews will not believe, two thousand years prove that, and
Jesus said the same, so he can't/doesn't deal with them in the same manner he does with the
church.

Jesus as a "Vine" doesn't bear "figs", (Jews).

Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs?

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Monday April 22, 2002 at 8:51

Shaking my head here. The audacity of that woman coming in here and acting like she's a
heavyweight intellectual has me rolling on the floor! What a hoot.

HAY, you know me, I have to "ruffle some feathers", "Rub the cat's fur the wrong way" from
time to time, it's my "Nature". Nowatimean??? LOL

*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori
Monday April 22, 2002 at 8:50

" It's obvious you don't ever go back and read the whole thread of a conversation or you'd be
embarrassed by your shallowness. Find someone else to give your sanctimonious remarks to,
will you? You have too high an opinion of yourself and it is grating. LOL!" Actually I do go
back and read ALL the posts. sometimes it is just too much to reply to, especially since most
of the time no one is here to talk to when I am here.


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 06:47:56 04/22/02 Mon

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 23:01

When Christ comes back to rule and rein for a millennium after the end of the tribulation he will
bring all of us back with him.

GerryB.
In Response To Sunny
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 22:58

OK. You tell me what this passage is all about then. Prove that it does not describe the
rapture or snatching away of the saints. "16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven
with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in
the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17(KJV).

*Coinkydink
In Response To Sim
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 22:27

Wait a minute...you said, "WHO gets to be one of the RULERS"??, Yep "ME"."
Says who? ... and I thought you were leaving on the first Rapture train out. This stuff was
always confusing, so I skipped that class and went to the park... ;)

Sunny
In Response To Sim~
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 22:20

As the Great Trib unfolds and I do mean obviously so, you'll still be here, & I'll still be here,
posting with ya. (G) You'll see...no comfy catchign away in the air to NOT suffer at all.
Nope...dream on, it ain't gonna happen. After some suffering, we'll be going home.
huggz...back to the laundry room

Sim 2
In Response To Sunny
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 22:10

Better read your bible again, there are "TWO" reaping, one by Jesus, (rapture) and one by the
"angels reapers", and both are "Opposite" of each other.

Jesus reaps the "righteous" going up, while the angels reaper reap the "wicked, going down.

Rev 14;14 to end spells out the "sequence".

Sunny
In Response To hit & run posting....
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 22:02

But relax, I'll be back. (G)

Sunny
In Response To Gerry~
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 22:01

Hey sweetie! get over WHAt? The possibility that just as those that walked & talked with
Jesus, we just might have to SUFFER a bit, out of our comfort zones? (G) I think you need to
get over it, seriously, & get PREPARED. Bible speaks of the tares (bad folks) being taken
OUT OF & away, while the wheat is LEFT & bible speaks of the good inheriting the earth,
etc. Then when bible says 2 will be walking in a field, etc & 1 disppear, thumpers assume it
must be the GOOD(wheat) that disappear. Hmmm...put all the scriptures together & what you
see is the probability that the wicked will disappear, & the wheat are what Jesus will gather,
once, not twice. Instead of telling me to get over something, why dontcha post thoughts of
substance? (G) huggz~

dori
In Response To Stephen
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 21:37

I also read that long piece at your site. Did you write it? It was very good. A lot of truth in it.

dori
In Response To Stephen
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 21:33

Are you having fun, hon? LOL! Did you go read the stuff at Anti-Venom? Remember, it is not
the Catholic one. Chosen One is a hoot. Seems a lot like you in his style. *-)

Stephen James
In Response To Sim
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 21:32

"Do you really think that for a short "lifetime" doing whatever you chose is worth spending
"eternity" being tormented, day and night, without rest in Hell???"

I gave up being afraid of the boogerman when I was 8...seems some people think they gotta
check under the bed every night until their 88.

I know the truth...I just posted it below. Now that you know it as well, I hope this ignorance of
yours concerning these worthless scare tactics will cease.

Stephen James
In Response To Absolute Truth
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 21:27

They will never know the truth...the truth is that your spiritual soul can fly right on by Heaven
and you can give the BibleGod the finger as you zip by. If he yells to you as you go by that he
is gonna send you to Hell...just stop, turn around and say "ok, do it then, send me to Hell". The
BibleGod will say "Don't make me do it, get in here now an we'll forget the whole thing" and
you say "No, send me to Hell, do it now." The BibleGod can only threaten, that's it, so how
long you play the game is up to you, he can't send anyone to hell...I suggest ya give him 5
minutes, flip him the finger again and move on to check out what the other Spiritual
Amusements Parks have to offer.

Stephen James
In Response To Absolute Truth
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 21:26

Anyway, the whole lot of them are wimps when it comes to controlling spiritual souls, they just
can't do it. Oh they can move mountains, cause floods, give heart attacks, they can do tons of
physical damage...but once that soul is separated from the body, the Gods have no influence in
our decisions, they have no power over free souls...unless power over a souls mind had been
well established in life.

If the BibleGod scares someone good enough in their physical life, that person, upon death,
won't even see the lights of Valhalla across from Heaven, or, if he does, he will think it to be
Hell and go straight through the gates of Heaven, just as he was preconditioned to do by the
BibleGod when he lived...cont.

Stephen James
In Response To Absolute Truth
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 21:25

The BibleGod does exist...but he is only one of thousands of "Gods". And like the others he
took time to come here and scare the crap outta us all and attempt to outdo the other Gods
who came before...and like all the others, he finally got bored and quit bothering us, moving on
to more pressing Godly concerns.

Each God has his own Spiritual Amusement Park, BibleGod has Heaven, Odin has Valhalla,
etc..etc..and their hope is to entice as many spiritual customers as possible, the Gods are
scavengers, they feed off of Spiritual Energies...yeah, that sounds good...cont..

Sim 2
In Response To Stephen
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 21:07

If you live to be a hundred, then the first thousand year, (while I'm ruling the earth), you get to
"burn", that's 10 to 1 for starter, but it continues for "eternity".

Do you really think that for a short "lifetime" doing whatever you chose is worth spending
"eternity" being tormented, day and night, without rest in Hell???

Do you understand why God called people who would made that "TRADE", "fools"???

Stephen James
In Response To Sim
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 20:53

"Ya'll may not like the idea of the world being Ruled under the "laws of God", but it's going to
be "ANYWAY", and guess WHO gets to be one of the RULERS"??, Yep "ME"."

*Yawn* And in the meantime while we wait for enforcement of these "God Laws" I believe I
shall burn some more bibles, melt a few thousand crucifixes into scrap metal and trash the
name of Jesus where ever I go.

What a weak God and what equally weak humans he chooses to be his "rulers"...can't do a
dang thing to stop me while I am alive, and I am betting it will be the same in death...weak
slave souls and strong free souls...which is Sim gonna be?

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 20:38

Ya'll may not like the idea of the world being Ruled under the "laws of God", but it's going to
be "ANYWAY", and guess WHO gets to be one of the RULERS"??, Yep "ME".

Oh, did I tell you, those who don't like to live under God's law, don't have too, Nope, you
sure don't, God has the angel reapers gather all those together and "cast into the fire".

I sure you won't like that place either, but let's face it, ya'll wouldn't be happy in Heaven, ya'll
would be "Complaining" about something regardless of where you were.

But at least you don't have to live under God's law, and even that won't make ya happy??

~Veracity~
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 19:58

The Real Eve, 9 p.m. EDT, Discovery Channel.

dori
In Response To Ctaj
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 19:31

Well, I guess they wanted to do it their own way, eh? That's usually why churches start up. It
is a bit sad isn't it when we get so caught up in the trappings that we get away from just the
simple words Christ spoke to us. Of course, He only speaks to the demented and retarded, I
know. *-)

`Ctaj
In Response To dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 19:10

There is no fighting in individual churches of any denomination, unless they have to
replace the minister or someone got elected to the council they didn't like.

Really? How do you reckon it got from The (Catholic) Church, to the Catholic and the
Protestant Churches, to the 30,000 denominations we see today? Didn't like the songs the
choir picked?

dori
In Response To Stephen
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 14:00

Check out Anti-Venom. Chosen one did a wonderful spoof on there that I think you'll enjoy. I
know I did!

dori
In Response To Stephen
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 13:55

You're looking at the big picture. There is no fighting in individual churches of any
denomination, unless they have to replace the minister or someone got elected to the council
they didn't like. Petty stuff. The only fighting I see about religion is here. Most people in real life
are too polite to tell each other their church stinks. *-)

Stephen James
In Response To Connie
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 13:51

"Scoffers have been trying to destroy it for over 2000 years and the church still stands"

Yes, but look at how it is standing, 30,000 differing denominations have effectively crippled the
religion with all the in-fighting.

Scoffers barely even scratch the church in trying to destroy it...it is Christians themselves who
have taken a sledge hammer to it. IMO

dori
In Response To Connie
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 13:29

Better say Instant Message is turned on, hon. This is a public forum, you know and there may
be a pervert out there just waiting in the wings... giggle

Connie
In Response To Dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 13:25

IM turned on.

dori
In Response To Connie
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 13:08

YEs I did notice and was a bit worried. Wanta come on IM for a few minutes? Or ICQ?


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 06:44:31 04/22/02 Mon

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

Connie
In Response To Dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 13:04

Off and on! Not online a whole lot the last few days as I'm sure you noticed. Been feeling
kinda blah!

Connie
In Response To Ctaj
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 13:03

"If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." Back at ya.
"Believing themselves wise, they became fools."

dori
In Response To Connie
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 12:59

Still lurking? You're sure hard to pin down! *-)


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 11:00:02 04/21/02 Sun

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

`Ctaj
In Response To Connie
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 12:45

To paraphrase Maximillian, "If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

Connie
In Response To Ctaj
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 12:20

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell
will not prevail against it." Scoffers have been trying to destroy it for over 2000 years and the
church still stands while the ideologies man has come up with to replace it have come and
gone.

`Ctaj
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 11:36

"We have no spiritual base in this country anymore."

We have it held down by the Constitution, but it's like that damned Hydra of Greek
Mythology, the 9-headed monster that, whenever Hercules cut off one head, two more grew
back.

`Ctaj
In Response To RonB
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 11:25

Resuscitated

`Ctaj
In Response To RonB
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 11:24

Ctaj: Apparently it doesn't, since there weren't any witnesses. At least none that we heard
from in the bible. Only hearsay.

RonB:Maybe not of the actual resurrection, but of the resurrected Christ.

No, not of the actual resurrection, nor of the actual death on the cross, nor of the actual placing
the body in the tomb. You have a very circumstantial case.

The more plausible story is that he didn't die on the cross, Joseph rescued him and never
placed him in the tomb, and that the "vision" seen afterward was of a resuscutated Jesus, not a
resurrected one.

Murray
In Response To dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 10:21

Like I said, detente stops with you when there is a conflict or disagreement of some kind.
Perhaps you are incapable of successfully relating to others below anything other than the most
superficial level. Keep it light and airy. Pretend to agree when you really don't just to preserve
amity. Never explore anything in too much depth, never be serious, never really look into
ourselves to see what beliefs drive us. Whine when others mischaracterize you, but run away
from the responsibility of it when you do it yourself. This is what you ask people to do in order
to have a relationship with you. You ask too much because you settle for too little.

Murray
In Response To dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 10:05

Ah, but you do speak for me. You have said at various times that I proclaim "once saved
always saved." Yet I don't. You have said that the upshot of my words is that I advocate a
"free ride," which, of course, I don't.

As far as the other thing is concerned, all I can say is that, at best, you are severely limiting
having communion with the Lord by what you say. If you are truly his, He is present in your life
all the time and you can commune with Him to great depths any time and any place just like
Brother Lawrence, who wrote, "In continuing the practice of conversing with God throughout
each day, and quickly seeking His forgiveness when I fell or strayed, His presence has become
as easy and natural to me now as it once was difficult to attain."

dori
In Response To Saint Fulgentius?
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 10:00

Who in the hell is that, Murray? Try looking up what our current Pope has to say about those
"official" teachings.

dori
In Response To Murray
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:58

Please save the preaching for someone who cares. You don't understand any more than I do
what these "official" church teachings are that you throw out at me, Murray. I try to follow the
teachings the best I can, but there are some I don't agree with. I'll have to deal with that come
judgement day, I guess. Sooo... you have nailed me, hon. I'm a cafeteria Catholic. Now, do
you feel better? You are not going to corner me into debating you on my faith. Ain't gonna
happen. End of subject. God bless.

Murray
In Response To nice try dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:47

Everything's fine when we talk about meat loaf, but when we get into the nitty gritty, you are
the one who bails out from the detente because you have such a low tolerance for conflict. All
you are saying by your comments is that you are a cafeteria Catholic. You want what makes
you feel good about your involvement there and ignore the fact that the church has an official
position that condemns non-Catholics to hell. Or, as Saint Fulgentius declared with the utmost
clarity, "Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only all pagans, but also all Jews, all
heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the
eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels."

*Coinkydink
In Response To One more to Dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:39

Last one then I have to hit the shower...You said, "started calling religious people right-wing
whackos."

The people I call right wing wackos are the ones who want to change the Constitution or make
laws based on their religious views at the expense of all other religious views...they ARE
religious wackos. They are like MM2 or Tamarisk... Is that who you're feeling all sympathetic
to... Would you want them to make laws that persecute you for your life and religion? I
wouldn't.

Gotta go now...out to breakfast and on to meeting...TTFN!

*Coinkydink
In Response To Doridoodles
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:33

"We have no spiritual base in this country anymore." You're right that the spiritual base in the
country is not strong enough. Part of that is because of the influence of TV, constant war and
the striving for affluence that has become endemic since the 40's. When I was growing up, we
all thought the world was going to blow itself up and we'd never live to be over 25 or 30...we
felt hopeless about the future and tried to recreate a world of brotherly love as the 60's
generation. Meanwhile our parents chased the all mighty dollar, because they'd been through a
horrible depression and wanted a better life for us, their kids.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Doriola
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:26

Haha, I have relatives that think I'm going to Hell for not being a Pentacostal holy roller and
not speaking in tongues...heck, I couldn't even learn to speak Spanish very well! :)

dori
In Response To And finally....
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:23

The main difference in going to a Catholic Mass and a Protestant service is to receive the
Blessed Sacrament of the bread and wine, the body and blood of Christ. That is the key part
of the Catholic faith and that is the main reason why Catholics need to attend Mass. Christ told
His Apostles at the Last Supper to "Do this in memory of Me." So we do. If we attend
services at a family or friend's church, we still attend a Mass for this reason, not because we
feel superior to Protestants, but because we feel that is the whole reason for going to
church--to commune with Christ. Please don't speak for me Murray. I don't speak for you.
God bless.

dori
In Response To Continued to Murray
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:14

My faith is very personal to me. Whether or not you go to heaven is between you and God.
My church is telling me that ours is the true church based on the fact that we follow Christ's
teachings from the New Testament, and those of the Apostles. I condemn no one for attending
another church. If I did, I would not have much to talk about at family gatherings, since I'm the
only Catholic in my family. It wouldn't make any sense to be a Catholic if I didn't think I was
following the true church, would it? If you didn't think YOUR church was the true church,
would you go? LOL! I think it is up to each of us to work out the semantics. As long as we
believe in Christ and follow Him, it doesn't matter where we go to church, as long as we find
Him there.

dori
In Response To Murray
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:03

Re: The truth also is that, to be a true Catholic, you have to believe that it is the one true
church. To believe this means that, to a Catholic, those outside the R.C. Church have
basically zero chance of heaven. That likewise means that you do as you blame others,
that being you think there is something wrong with the faith of non-Catholics and that we
need to become Catholic and follow its teachings to have a shot at heaven.

Why do you presume to speak for me? You say to be a "true" Catholic I must believe that my
church is the one true church. I do. But then you say in doing that I am doing that which I
blame others of doing--telling others their church is wrong and they have no chance of going to
heaven unless they are Catholic. I do not!

dori
In Response To Murray
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 8:37

Well THAT little detente didn't last long, did it? LOL!

Sim 2
In Response To GerryB
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 7:19

Morning:

I got back from "surfing" just in time to leave again. lol

SY after Church. GLW

GerryB.
In Response To Sunny
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 6:53

Please get over it. There is no such thing as a post-tribulation rapture. The Bible clearly
describes a pre-tribulation rapture of the saints.

"When all the saints go marching in..."

GerryB.
In Response To Sim
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 6:48

Hehehe 'morning, my brother in Christ.

Gonna get your pick-up washed eh? I had to pay to run my van through the car wash a few
days ago. Day before yesterday we got about a 10 minute thunder shower. Lots of sound and
fury but not much benefit from it.

Sim 2
In Response To Sunny
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 6:16

Form the first verse of Matt 24 until the parable of the fig tree, is all written to the JEWS, not
the church, the church will never see the "abomination of desolation".

Much of the NT is written "to the Jews", not the church, during the trib, some will come to
believe in Jesus.

Example:
Lu 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the
wedding;

When Jesus "returns from the "Marriage supper of the Lamb", (Pre trib rapture of the church)is
written to the Jews, not the church.

Jesus, as a "VINE" doesn't bear "FIGS" (Jews). Jas 3:12

Sim 2
In Response To Sunny
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 6:09

Morning:

One of the "signs of the times" is the "falling away" of people's ability to "correctly interpret
Scripture".

The timing of Rapture, the purpose of Tribulation, to whom it applies, or doesn't apply, and all
the "Confusion" surrounding these events proves they "AREN'T" listening to the teaching of the
"Holy Ghost".

Jesus said if you don't understand the parables, you can't understand the bible, and they
"NEVER" mention the parable that tells the timing of the rapture, why???

The answer is simple, they don't have "eyes" "ears" to see and understand.

Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they
hear not, neither do they understand.

Sim 2
In Response To GerryB
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 5:55

You still around?

Yep, aint dead yet. LOL

Morning, I think "Mothernature" is going to give me a "free pickup wash" today, mine needs it.

Murray
In Response To dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 4:29

"I'm not whining..."

Yeah, right! LOL

Doris, the truth is that you give as well as you get.

The truth also is that, to be a true Catholic, you have to believe that it is the one true church.
To believe this means that, to a Catholic, those outside the R.C. Church have basically zero
chance of heaven. That likewise means that you do as you blame others, that being you think
there is something wrong with the faith of non-Catholics and that we need to become Catholic
and follow its teachings to have a shot at heaven.

I go back to my original comment. People and organizations that succeed are almost
continually moving forward and pay little or no regard to the criticism and/or disapproval of
others.

See ya later...

Sunny
In Response To Alternate Religion forum
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 3:07

An article on post-tribulation rapture.


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 10:57:27 04/21/02 Sun

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

GerryB.
In Response To dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 23:13

That's Ok. I guess that I'll run along to bed. Actually I think that I'll stroll gently across the
room. I don't run any place any more. I don't care what Sim says about it. If you subject your
body to the kind of abuse that I did when I was young it doesn't hold up so well when you get
old. GRIN!!!

Hey, Willy and his Mom will be here in the morning to attend services with me.

dori
In Response To Gerry
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 23:02

Looks like we're just a few minutes too late, Gerry... grin.

GerryB.
In Response To Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 22:55

You still around?

dori
In Response To Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 22:54

Grin... don't give me that "old" story! LOL! You run circles around kids half your age, I'll bet.
Goodnight, sleep tight, and don't let the bedbugs bite!

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 22:51

I'm about to call it a day, "old age" ya know.

I don't know who said "old folks" don't need much sleep, but evidently they wasn't old
themselves or knew what they were talking about. Course that would include the "whole
world" today. LOL

SYT GLW atrdh JKG.

dori
In Response To Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 22:43

Yes, we can see how our country has slidden just in the last couple of decades from a lack of
a spiritual base. I remember when it first started happening and preachers and the Christian
Coalition folks pointed it out. The reaction was, "Stay out of our bedrooms," It's my body, you
don't have a right to tell me what to do," etc. and people who should know better but wanted
to play without a guilt trip started calling religious people right-wing whackos. We have no
spiritual base in this country anymore.

dori
In Response To Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 22:33

Okay! Are you gonna be here a bit? I'll read it and check back to see if you're here.

dori
In Response To A Catholic
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 22:32

Yep, I know the significance of those being the type of artwork for the Catholic missions in
California and their Spanish influence. And that art is still fitting for those churches. You get
such a feeling of history when you're there. I've been to the mission Pac spoke of when we
lived near the area 25 years ago. The missions are stark and seem to take you back in time
when you visit, don't they?

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 22:30

Check out the Alt R1, I posted the article I promised a few days ago.

RonB
In Response To Ctaj
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 21:49

Apparently it doesn't, since there weren't any witnesses. At least none that we heard from
in the bible. Only hearsay.

Maybe not of the actual resurrection, but of the resurrected Christ.

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 20:01

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name,
he shall teach you all things,

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing (Holy Ghost) which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye
need not that any man teach you:

but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it
hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."IF"...people don't..."KNOW THE TRUTH"...the only
reason is because they... "ARE NOT"...listening to the teaching of the "HOLY GHOST".

"SO"..what excuse will they offer God for their "ignorance"???

A Catholic
In Response To Dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 19:02

I suppose back a hundred or two years ago, those were the types of thoughts people
wanted reflected when they went to worship, but my tastes run to a bit more contemporary
depictions, more Biblical than mythical.

You have to remember that this country has a strong Puritan influence. The Mediterranean
countries don't have the same tastes in art that the majority of the founders of this country did.
The California missions were settled started Spaniards.

`Ctaj
In Response To dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 18:58

And in debate we are entitled to accept or reject the other side's "evidence".

Someday when I have more time, you'll have to give me some examples of "evidence"
presented by Christians. If you can.

`Ctaj
In Response To RonB
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 18:56

Evidence for Christ's resurrection depends on the witness of those who lived at the time

Apparently it doesn't, since there weren't any witnesses. At least none that we heard from in
the bible. Only hearsay.

Taking the girls to a movie. Later.

dori
In Response To Well, gotta go
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 17:51

Tonight is our spring concert. We're performing with the full orchestra! See you all latah!

dori
In Response To Ron
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 17:50

Re: Short answer. You can post if you want, but don't ridicule.

LOL! You don't know Ctaj very well, do you? That's like saying, you can post if you want,
but don't breathe. Hee hee... yer askin for it. But it's your room, sweetie.

RonB
In Response To Ctaj
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 17:44

I suppose I could come in there and express my most sincere concerns about whether or
not the resurrection really happened, but I'm afraid you wouldn't accept them as sincere.

I would recognize them as sincere, but I'm not sure how we could continue from there.
Evidence for Christ's resurrection depends on the witness of those who lived at the time -- and
those who witnessed miracles at later times. Many atheists automatically reject the witness of
Christians because they (the atheists), by faith, disbelieve in the possibility of miracles. They
claim that a miracle goes against the laws of nature -- which is, of course, true because that's
the definition a miracle.

Short answer. You can post if you want, but don't ridicule.

dori
In Response To Ctaj
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 17:21

And in debate we are entitled to accept or reject the other side's "evidence". If we allow our
frustrations at not being able to win a debate or to turn someone to our viewpoint to rule our
emotions, we start lashing out at other things, such as a person's intelligence or even past
embarrassing mistakes or other personal shortcomings. There can be no debate if there is no
respect of the other person.

`Ctaj
In Response To RonB
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 17:19

The True Church Forum, on the other hand is for "sincere" debate and questions about
the Catholic Church.

I suppose I could come in there and express my most sincere concerns about whether or not
the resurrection really happened, but I'm afraid you wouldn't accept them as sincere.

`Ctaj
In Response To dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 17:15

Debate is when two people of opposing views, express them back and forth, with evidence
to back it up and each side making his points and counterpoints, and agreeing or
disagreeing with each other's evidence.

Don't be silly. If "evidence to back it up" were a prerequisite, you Christians would have
nothing to say.

RonB
In Response To Ctaj
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 16:53

I have no distain for Ron's forum. It's just that he doesn't intend for it to be a "debate"
forum, so it's not my place to go in there and debate.

Hi Ctaj--

Sorry to come into the middle of this, but which forum are you speaking of? AntiVenom does
have a very limited focus -- to respond to the ravings of the SnakePit crew, and, as such, is not
really a debate forum. The True Church Forum, on the other hand is for "sincere" debate and
questions about the Catholic Church. What I don't want there are insults and ridicule of the
kind you will find at the SnakePit (and other bigoted anti-Catholic sites). What may be
confusing is that, at first, there was only going to be one forum that I was going to try to use it
to serve both purposes.

dori
In Response To Ctaj
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 16:38

Do you understand the meaning of the word debate? I don't think so... grin. Your idea of
debate is a little closer to pontificating. You don't allow your debating partner the courtesy of
having his own opinion. Debate is when two people of opposing views, express them back and
forth, with evidence to back it up and each side making his points and counterpoints, and
agreeing or disagreeing with each other's evidence. Early on in debate with you, when it is
determined you can't get the person to agree, you label him stupid, silly, or mildly retarded.
That effectively ends the debate.

`Ctaj
In Response To dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 16:29

I don't suppose your disdain for the place has anything to do with the fact you won't be
allowed to go there and commandeer the place, does it?

I have no distain for Ron's forum. It's just that he doesn't intend for it to be a "debate" forum,
so it's not my place to go in there and debate.

If I want to hear someone preach to the choir, there's a church just the other side of my back
fence.

RonB
In Response To SnakePit
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 16:16

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of
the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth
good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto
you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of
judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
-- Mt 12

dori
In Response To Ron
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 16:12

Yep, I went back and read. I think I remember someone posting as the Chosen One at
another site... grin. Well, I think it's a great place. Thanks for thinking of it. BTW, I finally
figured out what I was doing wrong at your other room, only getting the threads. I was in that
part of the forum when I made the bookmark for the site. When I clicked return to the main
page, I was where I should've been. I'll figure it out eventually. See ya there later. I still didn't
read the second one you posted. I will go there to read it now and then I have a couple of
pups to tend to. Laterz!


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 10:55:51 04/21/02 Sun

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

`Ctaj
In Response To dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 16:29

I don't suppose your disdain for the place has anything to do with the fact you won't be
allowed to go there and commandeer the place, does it?

I have no distain for Ron's forum. It's just that he doesn't intend for it to be a "debate" forum,
so it's not my place to go in there and debate.

If I want to hear someone preach to the choir, there's a church just the other side of my back
fence.

RonB
In Response To SnakePit
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 16:16

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of
the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth
good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto
you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of
judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
-- Mt 12

dori
In Response To Ron
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 16:12

Yep, I went back and read. I think I remember someone posting as the Chosen One at
another site... grin. Well, I think it's a great place. Thanks for thinking of it. BTW, I finally
figured out what I was doing wrong at your other room, only getting the threads. I was in that
part of the forum when I made the bookmark for the site. When I clicked return to the main
page, I was where I should've been. I'll figure it out eventually. See ya there later. I still didn't
read the second one you posted. I will go there to read it now and then I have a couple of
pups to tend to. Laterz!

RonB
In Response To dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 16:00

Hmmm... I've been giving you credit for those posts and it's not you? Well, whoever it is,
he's a hoot!!!

Hi dori--

I'm RonB at AntiVenom. "The Chosen One" is the author of the Dolly-mistake messages.
(BTW -- I've responded to a Dolly post at AV.)

dori
In Response To Hi Ron
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 15:47

No, I meant the "head one" realized his mistake because you caught him and hurriedly hid it.
Are you saying you didn't post that at your place? Hmmm... I've been giving you credit for
those posts and it's not you? Well, whoever it is, he's a hoot!!!


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 13:43:49 04/20/02 Sat

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

RonB
In Response To dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 15:38

. He caught the evil one posting as Dolly and then realizing his mistake, he deleted the
post... grin. The reason he has that room is because we can't discuss the jerks over here.

Actually that wasn't my post. I'm not sure who put it up. I'm not even sure how it proves that
Dolly is the Head Viper. But I find it easy to believe -- it seems like "they" never post at the
same time.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 15:29

RE: "I have never said that Gerry's religion is 'wrong' either..."

I don't have a religion. I have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ, the creator of
the universe and everything in it.


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 13:27:04 04/20/02 Sat

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie Warner
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 15:24

OK. I forgot about using the "C" word. If I offended anyone with it, I'm sorry. Sometimes under
the right provocation I tend to lapse back into my old sinful ways. The first thing to go is my
mouth. Cheer up. I will be made perfect when I get to heaven. Till then I'll just be a forgiven
sinner. SMILE!!!

dori
In Response To Stephen
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 15:14

As for the one you started up last night, why don't you be honest and call it what it is--a Christian
bashing room. LOL!


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 13:14:41 04/20/02 Sat

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Stephen
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 15:12

Thanks! BTW did you see the posts at sh'tap? What do you think about what TB2 said?

dori
In Response To Coinky
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 15:10

Yep, that's what my Christian friends say, too. Have a nice day!

dori
In Response To LOL!
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 15:09

A Catholic dropped by last night and explained the meaning of that painting. Pretty weird stuff if
you ask me. *-)

*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 15:08

I'll make this quick...Bill wants the puter. Yes, I related some of the early ROMAN church
history and some about the inquisition. That is relaying historical fact, not saying YOUR religion
is wrong. I didn't find RC Church comfortable for me, because of all the politics and ritual...and
after a lot of studying I found the doctrines didn't fit what I believed either. that doesn't mean that
they aren't OK for you...it's your choice. I have never said that Gerry's religion is "wrong"
either...I just don't agree with some of what they teach. Who am I to say anyone's religion is
wrong...no one has seen god at any time...therefore we won't know who is right or wrong til we
do...personally I think they are all wrong ... we are all guessing and hoping. :)

*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori & Pac1
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:59

I believe your Madonna feeding the god with her breast milk comes from the Egyption worship
of Isis who was said to feed her son, the god, Horus, divine milk. Here's a website to explain
who they are.
http://www15.brinkster.com/akhenheru/Aset/index.html
I believe that some of the mythology surrounding the virgin birth was lifted from this earlier
religion. Also there is similar stuff about Astartes (Persian Madonna) and also Zoroaster was
supposed to have had a virgin birth.

Haha...Searching under "Isis" I found a lot of advertising for breast pumps and nursing aids...
Just in case you guys need them... :D

dori
In Response To Stephen
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:55

Ron has two rooms. One is for Catholic rebuttal and the other, The Anti-Venom site is to rebut
the idiocy of the snake pit. He has said you and Coinky are welcome to either place, but I don't
imagine you'll be much interested in the Catholic rebuttal one. Grin... as for the Anti-Venom
room, I think Ron's responses to them are a hoot. He caught the evil one posting as Dolly and
then realizing his mistake, he deleted the post... grin. The reason he has that room is because we
can't discuss the jerks over here.

dori
In Response To Coinky
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:50

There is only one definition of a Christian. Follower of Christ. If you follow others, you may be a
religious person and a spiritual one, but you aren't a Christian.
You have spoken disparagingly several times of the politics of the Catholic hierarchy and the
evils of its early history. You also said at one time you tried to go to a Catholic church and found
the doctrine and ritual nature not to be desired, I believe. Or was that Margaret?

Stephen James
In Response To Coinky
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:45

"Hey, how many websites do you have anyway?"

As many as I need...lol. I just set this one up ( http://www.voy.com/83767/ ) last night because
you had a need and a good point in that Ron's place seems more geared for Catholics to present
Catholic rebuttal to the snakepit vipers. I am going to leave the site open though so anyone can
post there, so don't be surprised if a snake bites ya on the ankle...but don't worry, I will be close
by to suck the venom out and spit it in the toilet where it belongs.. :-)


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 13:06:58 04/20/02 Sat

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori & Pac1
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:59

I believe your Madonna feeding the god with her breast milk comes from the Egyption worship
of Isis who was said to feed her son, the god, Horus, divine milk. Here's a website to explain
who they are.
http://www15.brinkster.com/akhenheru/Aset/index.html
I believe that some of the mythology surrounding the virgin birth was lifted from this earlier
religion. Also there is similar stuff about Astartes (Persian Madonna) and also Zoroaster was
supposed to have had a virgin birth.

Haha...Searching under "Isis" I found a lot of advertising for breast pumps and nursing aids...
Just in case you guys need them... :D

dori
In Response To Stephen
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:55

Ron has two rooms. One is for Catholic rebuttal and the other, The Anti-Venom site is to rebut
the idiocy of the snake pit. He has said you and Coinky are welcome to either place, but I don't
imagine you'll be much interested in the Catholic rebuttal one. Grin... as for the Anti-Venom
room, I think Ron's responses to them are a hoot. He caught the evil one posting as Dolly and
then realizing his mistake, he deleted the post... grin. The reason he has that room is because we
can't discuss the jerks over here.

dori
In Response To Coinky
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:50

There is only one definition of a Christian. Follower of Christ. If you follow others, you may be a
religious person and a spiritual one, but you aren't a Christian.
You have spoken disparagingly several times of the politics of the Catholic hierarchy and the
evils of its early history. You also said at one time you tried to go to a Catholic church and found
the doctrine and ritual nature not to be desired, I believe. Or was that Margaret?

Elucidation
In Response To GerruB
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:49

GerryB
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:19
They commented that the MODs here won't allow us to discuss (here) what they say over there.
That is not correct. We can discuss it anytime we wish.

Gerry, didn’t you read: The Mod's Response to Pac’s question: “By the way, isn't this a Forum
for Religious Debate?” The Mod’s Response: “Certainly...only on topics started here and talked
about here.
Read the top statement by Susan. Please don't bring things from other forums here.
RATS! Something hypocritical going on here. The Mods and Susan say one thing, and yet you
believe/state something contrary to their statement of “faith.” The Moods are not even handed,
nor are they consistent in enforcing Susan’s forum rules.

Stephen James
In Response To Coinky
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:45

"Hey, how many websites do you have anyway?"

As many as I need...lol. I just set this one up ( http://www.voy.com/83767/ ) last night because
you had a need and a good point in that Ron's place seems more geared for Catholics to present
Catholic rebuttal to the snakepit vipers. I am going to leave the site open though so anyone can
post there, so don't be surprised if a snake bites ya on the ankle...but don't worry, I will be close
by to suck the venom out and spit it in the toilet where it belongs.. :-)

*Coinkydink
In Response To Doridimples
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:41

That is your definition of who is and who isn't a Christian...not mine.

When did I tell you your religion is wrong?

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:39

Don't worry about it...you used the word "crap" to describe their calling the women here
"*hores", etc. I would say they are one up on you in the profanity department. A Pharisee always
sees the splinter in someone else's eye. :)

dori
In Response To Coinky
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:37

Thank you, but I said Christian friends. You don't think Jesus is the Christ, so I guess you aren't
a Christian. I'm not judging you, but a Christian believes Jesus is the Christ, conceived by the
Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary and died on the cross for our sins. You believe he was one of
many great men. Christians believe He is the Christ and none other are his equal.

And, for the record, you have also told me my religion is wrong.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Doridumpling
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 14:30

"Christian friend I have on line has told me they think my faith is wrong and they pray for my
salvation." Not me.

dori
In Response To Gerry
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 13:48

There's no rhyme or reason to those people, hon. They're demented. I'd advise you to not even
read their garbage. Just go read Ron's put downs of them. He is a hoot!

GerryB.
In Response To All
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 13:29

I must be a little confused. I just read at the snake pit. Someone accused me of using profane
things this morning. I went back and re-read my posts this morning and didn't see any. I was all
set to apologize. Is it me that is confused or is it the vipers over there?

dori
In Response To witness
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 13:15

Well, then... you know fertilizer when ya see it! Hee hee... How ya been?

witness
In Response To dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 13:12

I can't help it I'm a farmer.

dori
In Response To witness
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 12:56

Very true, but it's not in our nature, I guess. We are just always going to be in everybody else's
business instead of minding our own, aren't we?


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 10:56:19 04/20/02 Sat

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

witness
In Response To dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 12:36

Hello , Why is it that so many people are worried about others, should they plant the seed
then move on? I feel that maybe that is what they should do instead they spread a lot of that
stuff farmers use !?

dori
In Response To A Catholic
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 12:31

Thanks for stopping by to explain the meaning of the painting Pac described. There were a lot
of themes like that in the paintings on early chapel walls, weren't there? I suppose back a
hundred or two years ago, those were the types of thoughts people wanted reflected when
they went to worship, but my tastes run to a bit more contemporary depictions, more Biblical
than mythical. 8-)

dori
In Response To Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 12:22

In plain English... not everyone who quotes scripture and studies the Bible is necessarily
speaking of God or even in tune with Him. And in the long run, we need to worry about OUR
relationship with God, not theirs?

Sim 2
In Response To Coinkdink
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 11:48

The Snakepit guys seem to believe very similarly to you guys...I see minor differences, but
certainly not enough to warrent them calling you heretics or whatever.

God himself will one day "bear witness" as to who was listening to him speak by the Spirit and
who wasn't. Do you think it will make any difference who is in disagreement with you on that
day, as long as it isn't God??

Christians are "suppose" to speak as the spirit give utterence, (God's words) but will the spirit
confirm their words/doctrine as being "God's" or "man's"???

That will be the "final test", pass it, ya got it made, fail it, ya catch HELL.

dori
In Response To Murray
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 11:31

No, I know Christians of all denominations get painted with the same tar brush--religious
fanatics, bigots, extremists, you name it. But that is from un-believers. Catholics get that from
other Christians just as much. I'm not whining, but every Christian friend I have on line has told
me they think my faith is wrong and they pray for my salvation. They tell me in a nice way, but
many of them still think it is a false religion made by man, which is not true. They have a lot of
ignorance about Catholicism which is fed by people like those at the snakepit. That is why
there is a need for places like Ron has started. A positive place where we can answer those
questions and correct the misinformation. I hope my Christian friends will visit there now and
then.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 10:07

I don't want a woman around "to do it for me," thank you. I have tried living with women
around. I can't have any privacy that way. Someone is always in the bathroom when I need to
use it. I am told what I can eat because what I want might be bad for me. I like living alone.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 10:03

Speaking of domestic chores, I have to go do some. TTFN

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 10:02

The baby and I both have allergies. We live in a very agricultural area and the dust carries all
kinds of pollen and fungal spores that I need to avoid.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 10:00

"women's work. Ya know, cleaning and laundry and stuff like that." Well, you get to do that
stuff until you get a woman to do it for you. That's how that works. :)

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:53

I said once before. Their theology is not bad. It is their hateful attitudes which gripe me.

If the baby does not have allergies being outside in the wind won't hurt him or her. Being
outside in the wind does not give one allergies.

GerryB.
In Response To Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:49

I understand about those "errors." Can't wait until Willy is old enough to need me to drive him
places. Oh wait!!! He does that now. Hehehe

'morning. At least you have a place to do chores. All I get to do is women's work. Ya know,
cleaning and laundry and stuff like that.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry & Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:46

The Snakepit guys seem to believe very similarly to you guys...I see minor differences, but
certainly not enough to warrent them calling you heretics or whatever. They are just off thier
trollies...or on drugs. I see minor differences, that Pac 1 sees as major ones, between you and
he also.

It's been a little windy but sunny and fairly warm, in Central California. I've been wanting to
plant some shrubs, but the wind keeps me from taking the baby out much...I don't want her to
get sick... it's allergy season.

Sim 2
In Response To GerryB
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:31

Morning:

Both "SONs" are shining "down here", this morning, so much so that I need to get some
"outside work" finished, but first I have to run some "errors". (not mispelled, LOL)

I might "pop back in" later, ya know how us "old men" need a "break" from time to time. (Hush
Dori).

GerryB.
In Response To Sim, Murray and Jeanie
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:22

Good morning.

Another sunny day here in the northeast with no promise of serious rain. How is it in your
respective areas?

GerryB.
In Response To All
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:19

I went to the snake pit this morning and the reptiles are hissing this morning. They are telling
each other how right Pac 1 was in his comments last night when he left in a huff, promising to
never come back.

They commented that the MODs here won't allow us to discuss what they say over there. That
is not correct. We can discuss it anytime we wish. Most of what they post is not worth
discussing. The only restriction is concerning posts which quote what is being said over there. I
have no desire to foul myself with the excrement that they post so while I may mention them
from time to time I refuse to dignify their crap by quoting it.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 7:52

Most of the doctrine they post is OK, but the attitude is definitely NON-christian or at least
what I think Jesus would NOT approve of. Just my opinion. Given my past association with
fanatics through my ex-husband, I am afraid physically of people who talk like that...that's one
reason I have avoided fundamentalist churches. I had enough of that kind of fanaticism to last
me a lifetime or several lifetimes.

Sim 2
In Response To Coinkdink
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 7:41

Surely that kind of hatred is not inspired by God!

I don't believe Tamerisk is that kind of person, or ACNE, the "enemy" they see is more in
"doctrine" than "physical".

Later, My Master just called, (Gdaug), (be glad when she can drive, (I think)).

*Coinkydink
In Response To Stephen
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 7:25

Thanks! Hey, how many websites do you have anyway?

*Coinkydink
In Response To Re: Tamarisk & Company
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 7:23

"I think she is referring, specifically, to those at the Pit who definitely do hate -- or at least put
on a pretty convincing act."

I agree that it is a genuine hatred and seems mostly directed at women and very personal.. So
do you think these people are dangerous? I mean, would they be the kind that would find out
where we live and bomb our house or something? They seem weird enough for it. Surely that
kind of hatred is not inspired by God!

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 6:59

Sheee, I'm beginning to feel like a "red headed stepchild", everyone has their own "web site"
cept "ME".

howsomever, "IGNORANCE" already has enough "BILLBOARDS" for it's posting without
me providing another one.

Stephen James
In Response To Coinky
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 6:20

"Many times they post gross things about me and others which I'd like to refute, but there isn't
any place for it."

http://www.voy.com/83767/

Here ya go, try this one. :-)

Murray
In Response To dori 22:16
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 4:27

"I guess it's hard for you to know how frustrating it can be to a Catholic to have so
much hatred pouring out from people about our faith, and every bit of it comes from
ignorance and fear."

What are you saying? That I have to be Catholic to experience the frustration of having hatred
poured out against my faith and of having to deal with ignorant comments?

A Catholic
In Response To Pac1 -- Part 2
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 3:19

Bernard's experience is supposed to have taken place while at prayer before a statue of the
Madonna nursing the Infant Jesus.
As Bernard prayed, "Monstra te esse Matrem" ("Show yourself a mother"), the statue came to
life and Mary pressed her breast to nourish and wet the lips of Bernard, dry from singing her
praises. The picture also illustrates the idea that Bernard's preaching and eloquence were
"sweet as milk."
The information given me by Brother Packovec says that at least 27 works of art depict this
legend.

A Catholic
In Response To Pac1 -- Part 1
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 3:17

With the help of Brother William M. Packovec, S.M., of the Marian Library at the University
of Dayton, I am able to tell you the picture your daughter saw hangs in Madrid's Prado. It was
painted by Bartolomé Esteban Murillo, who lived in the 17th century, and the picture is
sometimes called "The Lactation of St. Bernard."
An exhibition catalog from Weidenfeld and Nicoloson in London told some of the painting's
story. It takes its inspiration from a "mystical legend," dating from the 14th century, about a
prayer experience of St. Bernard. A dramatization of a metaphor, the picture is founded in
Bernard's love for and devotion to the Blessed Virgin. It expresses the idea that Mary filled
him with graces.

RonB
In Response To Pac1
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 3:05

Dori, why do you always use the words "hate" / hatred to describe someone who posts
rebuttals to Catholic beliefs?

Hi Pac--

I don't think dori uses this word for those who simply "rebut Catholic beliefs." I think she is
referring, specifically, to those at the Pit who definitely do hate -- or at least put on a pretty
convincing act.


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 09:49:25 04/20/02 Sat

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

Sim 2
In Response To Coinkdink
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 11:48

The Snakepit guys seem to believe very similarly to you guys...I see minor differences, but
certainly not enough to warrent them calling you heretics or whatever.

God himself will one day "bear witness" as to who was listening to him speak by the Spirit and
who wasn't. Do you think it will make any difference who is in disagreement with you on that
day, as long as it isn't God??

Christians are "suppose" to speak as the spirit give utterence, (God's words) but will the spirit
confirm their words/doctrine as being "God's" or "man's"???

That will be the "final test", pass it, ya got it made, fail it, ya catch HELL.

dori
In Response To Murray
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 11:31

No, I know Christians of all denominations get painted with the same tar brush--religious
fanatics, bigots, extremists, you name it. But that is from un-believers. Catholics get that from
other Christians just as much. I'm not whining, but every Christian friend I have on line has told
me they think my faith is wrong and they pray for my salvation. They tell me in a nice way, but
many of them still think it is a false religion made by man, which is not true. They have a lot of
ignorance about Catholicism which is fed by people like those at the snakepit. That is why
there is a need for places like Ron has started. A positive place where we can answer those
questions and correct the misinformation. I hope my Christian friends will visit there now and
then.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 10:07

I don't want a woman around "to do it for me," thank you. I have tried living with women
around. I can't have any privacy that way. Someone is always in the bathroom when I need to
use it. I am told what I can eat because what I want might be bad for me. I like living alone.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 10:03

Speaking of domestic chores, I have to go do some. TTFN

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 10:02

The baby and I both have allergies. We live in a very agricultural area and the dust carries all
kinds of pollen and fungal spores that I need to avoid.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 10:00

"women's work. Ya know, cleaning and laundry and stuff like that." Well, you get to do that
stuff until you get a woman to do it for you. That's how that works. :)

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:53

I said once before. Their theology is not bad. It is their hateful attitudes which gripe me.

If the baby does not have allergies being outside in the wind won't hurt him or her. Being
outside in the wind does not give one allergies.

GerryB.
In Response To Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:49

I understand about those "errors." Can't wait until Willy is old enough to need me to drive him
places. Oh wait!!! He does that now. Hehehe

'morning. At least you have a place to do chores. All I get to do is women's work. Ya know,
cleaning and laundry and stuff like that.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry & Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:46

The Snakepit guys seem to believe very similarly to you guys...I see minor differences, but
certainly not enough to warrent them calling you heretics or whatever. They are just off thier
trollies...or on drugs. I see minor differences, that Pac 1 sees as major ones, between you and
he also.

It's been a little windy but sunny and fairly warm, in Central California. I've been wanting to
plant some shrubs, but the wind keeps me from taking the baby out much...I don't want her to
get sick... it's allergy season.

Sim 2
In Response To GerryB
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:31

Morning:

Both "SONs" are shining "down here", this morning, so much so that I need to get some
"outside work" finished, but first I have to run some "errors". (not mispelled, LOL)

I might "pop back in" later, ya know how us "old men" need a "break" from time to time. (Hush
Dori).

GerryB.
In Response To Sim, Murray and Jeanie
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:22

Good morning.

Another sunny day here in the northeast with no promise of serious rain. How is it in your
respective areas?

GerryB.
In Response To All
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 9:19

I went to the snake pit this morning and the reptiles are hissing this morning. They are telling
each other how right Pac 1 was in his comments last night when he left in a huff, promising to
never come back.

They commented that the MODs here won't allow us to discuss what they say over there. That
is not correct. We can discuss it anytime we wish. Most of what they post is not worth
discussing. The only restriction is concerning posts which quote what is being said over there. I
have no desire to foul myself with the excrement that they post so while I may mention them
from time to time I refuse to dignify their crap by quoting it.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Sim
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 7:52

Most of the doctrine they post is OK, but the attitude is definitely NON-christian or at least
what I think Jesus would NOT approve of. Just my opinion. Given my past association with
fanatics through my ex-husband, I am afraid physically of people who talk like that...that's one
reason I have avoided fundamentalist churches. I had enough of that kind of fanaticism to last
me a lifetime or several lifetimes.

Sim 2
In Response To Coinkdink
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 7:41

Surely that kind of hatred is not inspired by God!

I don't believe Tamerisk is that kind of person, or ACNE, the "enemy" they see is more in
"doctrine" than "physical".

Later, My Master just called, (Gdaug), (be glad when she can drive, (I think)).

*Coinkydink
In Response To Stephen
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 7:25

Thanks! Hey, how many websites do you have anyway?

*Coinkydink
In Response To Re: Tamarisk & Company
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 7:23

"I think she is referring, specifically, to those at the Pit who definitely do hate -- or at least put
on a pretty convincing act."

I agree that it is a genuine hatred and seems mostly directed at women and very personal.. So
do you think these people are dangerous? I mean, would they be the kind that would find out
where we live and bomb our house or something? They seem weird enough for it. Surely that
kind of hatred is not inspired by God!

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 6:59

Sheee, I'm beginning to feel like a "red headed stepchild", everyone has their own "web site"
cept "ME".

howsomever, "IGNORANCE" already has enough "BILLBOARDS" for it's posting without
me providing another one.

Stephen James
In Response To Coinky
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 6:20

"Many times they post gross things about me and others which I'd like to refute, but there isn't
any place for it."

http://www.voy.com/83767/

Here ya go, try this one. :-)

Murray
In Response To dori 22:16
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 4:27

"I guess it's hard for you to know how frustrating it can be to a Catholic to have so much
hatred pouring out from people about our faith, and every bit of it comes from ignorance
and fear."

What are you saying? That I have to be Catholic to experience the frustration of having hatred
poured out against my faith and of having to deal with ignorant comments?

A Catholic
In Response To Pac1 -- Part 2
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 3:19

Bernard's experience is supposed to have taken place while at prayer before a statue of the
Madonna nursing the Infant Jesus.
As Bernard prayed, "Monstra te esse Matrem" ("Show yourself a mother"), the statue came to
life and Mary pressed her breast to nourish and wet the lips of Bernard, dry from singing her
praises. The picture also illustrates the idea that Bernard's preaching and eloquence were
"sweet as milk."
The information given me by Brother Packovec says that at least 27 works of art depict this
legend.

A Catholic
In Response To Pac1 -- Part 1
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 3:17

With the help of Brother William M. Packovec, S.M., of the Marian Library at the University
of Dayton, I am able to tell you the picture your daughter saw hangs in Madrid's Prado. It was
painted by Bartolomé Esteban Murillo, who lived in the 17th century, and the picture is
sometimes called "The Lactation of St. Bernard."
An exhibition catalog from Weidenfeld and Nicoloson in London told some of the painting's
story. It takes its inspiration from a "mystical legend," dating from the 14th century, about a
prayer experience of St. Bernard. A dramatization of a metaphor, the picture is founded in
Bernard's love for and devotion to the Blessed Virgin. It expresses the idea that Mary filled
him with graces.

RonB
In Response To Pac1
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 3:05

Dori, why do you always use the words "hate" / hatred to describe someone who posts
rebuttals to Catholic beliefs?

Hi Pac--

I don't think dori uses this word for those who simply "rebut Catholic beliefs." I think she is
referring, specifically, to those at the Pit who definitely do hate -- or at least put on a pretty
convincing act.

RonB
In Response To Coinkydink
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 1:36

Many times they post gross htings about me and others which I'd like to refute, but there
isn't any place for it. I usually just let it go. I probably still will, because a Catholic
defensive site isn't really fitting to my needs.

Go on over to AntiVenom. There really isn't much Catholic about it, except that I'm a Catholic
and sometimes will directly oppose anti-Catholic diatribes posted at the Pit. It's purpose is to
counter the venom at the SnakePit, whether that venom is directed against Catholics, or any
others at R1.

I do have a picture of St. Michael defeating the serpent, but that was an accent to the
AntiVenom theme. I'll probably find a picture of St. Patrick running the snakes out of Ireland
next.

dori
In Response To Ron
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 1:29

Grin... I just love it! Thanks for the chuckles.

Time for bed for me. See ya soon.

RonB
In Response To dori
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 1:22

I got such a kick out of your parody on that site. They do provide you with a lot of ammo,
don't they? Hee hee...

They sure do. And they can't help themselves. So, as long as I enjoy poking the stick in the Pit,
they'll never stop giving me ammo. It's just in their monomaniacal nature. I'm sure I'll get tired
of it long before they will.


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 09:44:28 04/20/02 Sat

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

dori
In Response To Hi Ron
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 1:02

I got such a kick out of your parody on that site. They do provide you with a lot of ammo,
don't they? Hee hee...

RonB
In Response To Pac1
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 1:02

I went to one of the California Missions in Calif.

Hanging on one of the walls was a large picture of the Virgin Mary floating on the clouds.
Her left breast was exposed and she was squirting breast milk downward to a knelling
man, a Shepard, with a Shepard’s staff, who was also floating in the clouds. He had his
mouth open and was drinking this supposed “milk" of heaven. He also had a “halo” over
his head. I personally believe this Shepard represented Jesus. There was no inscriptions
explaining the meaning of the picture.

As a Catholic I would have a lot of problems with such a picture myself. Sounds like a
modernist image.

RonB
In Response To Ten Megs
Saturday April 20, 2002 at 0:53

Just IMO. Sheesh, just remember, this little atheist bothered ol' Josie/ACNR/Sybil as much
as anyone. He just hates, and he doesn't care who he hates, he hates everyone. Wouldn't
the best thing be to simply stand quietly by and watch the Kilkenny cats eat each other?

That would be the wise thing to do, but I kind of enjoy stirring the pot! I'm sure I'll eventually
get tired of it all. Unlike the Pit Crew I don't have monomania to keep me going and
going...and going... But, for now, it's (at the minimum) typing practice.

Pac1
In Response To GerruB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 23:39

What in the world are you talking about Gerry? I haven't post to you in a very very long time.

dori
In Response To Gerry
Friday April 19, 2002 at 23:33

There is a lot of stuff like that on many forums and no one to refute it. That's what Ron is
addressing. As for the Mary stuff. I do see why non-Catholics are uncomfortable with the
Catholic doctrine on that. It IS man-made in that Jesus wasn't the one who taught it. I know
that most Catholics are only paying respect to her, but it just doesn't look right. I wish they'd
not emphasize that so much in our church.

GerryB.
In Response To Pac 1
Friday April 19, 2002 at 23:29

People here have strong opinions and aren't afraid to express themselves. Do you have a
problem with that? You have done enough expressing of your opinions in disagreement with
me anonymously over the past few weeks. Is it wrong for others to want to give theirs?

GerryB.
In Response To All
Friday April 19, 2002 at 23:26

I just took a look at the "snake pit." I found a reference by someone there to the thought that
Jeremiah 7:18 spoke out against the Roman Catholic idea that Mary is the queen of Heaven.
While I disagree with the Roman Catholic Church I must respectfully disagree more with those
false teachers on that forum. Mary wasn't even born when Jeremiah was preaching and
teaching neither was the Roman Catholic Church. How could Jeremiah say anything about
Mary or the Roman Catholic Church. Man, that bunch has lost it.

Pac1
In Response To spell check
Friday April 19, 2002 at 23:05

opinion-censored

Pac1
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 23:03

Nah, to many forums. This has become the most opinion cesured form of any of them.

To many moderators.

dori
In Response To Pac
Friday April 19, 2002 at 23:00

I think the mod thought you were bringing an argument from Ron's new site over here. Maybe
you should ask him for the password and talk to Trisha over there. I see her point. I just didn't
know what she was talking about at first.

Pac1
In Response To MODERATOR
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:59

No I don't. All you sent was your responses. You didn't include the body of my actual posts.

The Mod's Response: With the response, the body of the post comes, also. Check again.
Mod

Pac1
In Response To MODERATOR
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:55

I would like all my posts sent to me so I can post them somewhere else. I didn't save any of
them..lol..and you deleted all them. Again, good night.

The Mod's Response: If your email is correct, you should have them. Mod

Pac1
In Response To MODERATOR
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:53

Well, I'll never come back here again. You are the "weakest link."

The Mod's Response: Wow...then this is a strong forum, eh? Check your mail, Roy. Mod

Mod
In Response To PAC
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:53

If your email address is correct, you should have email.

dori
In Response To Mod
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:41

Who's arguing?

The Mod's Response: Semantics. Debate, arguing, whatever. Leave it there. Thank you.
(Read the statement above). Mod

Pac1
In Response To Moderator
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:39

I haven't been able to post there. By the way, isn't this a Forum for Religious Debate?

The Mod's Response: Certainly...on topics started here and talked about here. Read the
top statement by Susan. Please don't bring things from other forums here. I wasn't talking
just to you when I posted previously. MOd

MOD
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:36

Let's leave the arguments from other forums at those forums. Thank you.

Pac1
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:36

But art is truly in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? I don't think I'd want that one in my church.
LOL!

? ? ?

That picture is in "your" church. Ie., Catholic Mission Church.

Pac1
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:34

Special Friend?The True Church Forum

dori
In Response To Pac
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:32

I'm not talking about your posts, Pac. I'm talking about the kind like our good buddies from
MR post. That is pure, unadulterated hatred.

Pac1
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:29

I guess it's hard for you to know how frustrating it can be to a Catholic to have so much hatred
pouring out from people about our faith.

Dori, why do you always use the words "hate" / hatred to describe someone who posts
rebuttals to Catholic beliefs?

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:16

I guess it's hard for you to know how frustrating it can be to a Catholic to have so much hatred
pouring out from people about our faith, and every bit of it comes from ignorance and fear. I
think a site like Ron's is a good thing. He is a reasonable man to speak with and if people have
questions about Catholicism, he knows it inside out. Remember, also, he has lived both faiths.
He was a Moody bible institute student who spouted off the same kind of anti-Catholic stuff
you see from most antagonists on these forums.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 21:02

So you did. (G)

See ya later.

Murray
In Response To TMS 19:57
Friday April 19, 2002 at 20:42

Beat you to the punch with that one. See my 19:07.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Coinkydink
Friday April 19, 2002 at 20:21

Many times they post gross htings about me and others which I'd like to refute, but there
isn't any place for it.

No. That's absolutely correct. There isn't any place for it, and there' no reason to grant them
the honor of noticing them.

Be a duck, let it slide off your back.


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 09:37:38 04/20/02 Sat

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

Pac1
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:29

I guess it's hard for you to know how frustrating it can be to a Catholic to have so much hatred
pouring out from people about our faith.

Dori, why do you always use the words "hate" / hatred to describe someone who posts
rebuttals to Catholic beliefs?

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 22:16

I guess it's hard for you to know how frustrating it can be to a Catholic to have so much hatred
pouring out from people about our faith, and every bit of it comes from ignorance and fear. I
think a site like Ron's is a good thing. He is a reasonable man to speak with and if people have
questions about Catholicism, he knows it inside out. Remember, also, he has lived both faiths.
He was a Moody bible institute student who spouted off the same kind of anti-Catholic stuff
you see from most antagonists on these forums.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 21:02

So you did. (G)

See ya later.

Murray
In Response To TMS 19:57
Friday April 19, 2002 at 20:42

Beat you to the punch with that one. See my 19:07.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Coinkydink
Friday April 19, 2002 at 20:21

Many times they post gross htings about me and others which I'd like to refute, but there
isn't any place for it.

No. That's absolutely correct. There isn't any place for it, and there' no reason to grant them
the honor of noticing them.

Be a duck, let it slide off your back.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To A Question
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:57

If someone puts up a catholic room, how do they provide the holy water so people can cross
themselves when they enter?

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:54

"but we're just having leftover spaghetti and meatballs. Of course, it always tastes better the
second day to me. 8-) " Yep, we're having leftover stew...that always tastes better the 2nd day
too...yum! Except the baby ate most of the carrots out of it yesterday...yuk, orange poopy! :P
Spfft!

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:54

"But remember... that is the reason FOR the room--to counter the hundreds of
anti-Catholic sites."

Well, Doris, we've only got so much time on this globe. The basic thrust of Scripture as I see it
is to be proactive. To go forward into new territory. And, if anyone doesn't receive you, shake
the dust of your feet. Anyone who does anything at all in this world will encounter criticism and
resistance. I've looked at this closely and it seems the people who spend the least time
contending with their critics and opponents get the most done for their cause. Like I told Basil,
I just keep moving forward preaching and teaching what I've learned and feel can be of benefit
to others. And, it seems to be working.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Ctaj
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:45

REgarding Ron's anti-venom site you asked, "I think his aim is to have a place where
Catholics can refute much of the anti-Catholic hatred so prevalent in society. Who's stopping
them from refuting it here?" The Mods object when we bring in things form Acne's
forum...Many times they post gross htings about me and others which I'd like to refute, but
there isn't any place for it. I usually just let it go. I probably still will, because a Catholic
defensive site isn't really fitting to my needs.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:36

"I can't quite figure out the agenda of the current nay-sayers." Who are you talking about here?
Ctaj & Ten Megs have been up front about thier purpose...it is to have their say about what
christians tout as the truth of the Bible or as they call it "God's Word". Is their opinion not
allowed because it differs from that of others? TB2 & myself have a different agendas,which
we have already stated many times quite plainly. Who else did you have in mind? Why not ask
them thier agenda? If we were to ask you yours, wouldn't you feel like we were putting you on
the defensive or something? Think about it. :)

dori
In Response To Murray and Sim
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:24

It is starting to storm and there's lightning, so I'll have to split. Catch ya later, I hope. C'ya!

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:20

Hee hee... you're on a roll, hon. It is your call about visiting there. I know some won't go
because they suspect propaganda will be spouted. But remember... that is the reason FOR the
room--to counter the hundreds of anti-Catholic sites.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:08

You said, " The definition of a Christian is to be a follower of Jesus Christ and His teachings.
What did Cayce have to say about that. I would guess that kind of leaves old Thomas
Jefferson out too. " I wonder about that...what if a person like Jefferson followed only what
Jesus taught and left out all that was said later about him by apostles, saints and church
councils? That's what Jefferson attempted to do...I think I'll leave the judging of his soul to god,
but his intent seems directed to the right teachings.

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:07

Not so sure I can go into a Catholic room. I've never had instructions. Apparently there is
something you have to do with holy water on the way in. LOL

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:03

Grin... I don't think Ron needs any help in decimating that crew over there. He made that
room as a place to to counter the stuff they post. I look in there every now and then to see
what the poor things are harping on, but there is no way to respond to their lies if one wants to
because if we do here, it gets deleted. Maybe you'll come to his Catholic room now and then.
I am sure he'd like that.

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 19:01

How can you be sure? LOL

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:59

LOL! Not in MY meat loaf!!!

Murray
In Response To TMS 18:47
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:59

My thoughts exactly. Ron invited me to post there to counter what is going on in the other
place. He even gave me a password. Do you want it? grin Just kidding, Ron. But, the truth is,
I've never been to the other place nor do I intend to go. Plus, my style is to stay on the
proactive side as much as possible and stay away from being against stuff. Just keep preaching
the Gospel in other words.

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:48

It's true what you say. The meat loaf thing is now a dead horse. Or maybe it's made from a
dead horse. :-)

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Ron B
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:47

You're "Anti-venom" page is amusing, but wouldn't it be better just to let the snakes stew
unobserved? Seems like you're just encouraging fools who only want attention anyway.

Just IMO. Sheesh, just remember, this little atheist bothered ol' Josie/ACNR/Sybil as much as
anyone. He just hates, and he doesn't care who he hates, he hates everyone. Wouldn't the best
thing be to simply stand quietly by and watch the Kilkenny cats eat each other?

dori
In Response To Murray and Sim
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:34

Murray: Yes, I think we've exhausted meat loaf... giggle.

Sim: But that breakfast sounds awesome! Hee hee... I'll bet you hated to leave that place, hon.

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:32

I think my grapes and apple are gone, time to start "disposing".

Later. (Maybe)

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:30

They fixed a "breakfast" of eggs, cheese, ham, fried rice, peppers, spices, that I loved, I even
order it sometimes in the evening.

I don't recall "everything" it included, but it sure was good.

I'd like to find someone to show me how to fix that meal.

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:25

I'll bet you never had marshmallow fried rice,

Not that I recall,but then my "memory tape" has a few "blank spaces", kinda like "Nixon's
tapes", nowatimean???

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:22

I draw the line at swapping recipes, just so you know. grin


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 09:36:12 04/20/02 Sat

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

dori
In Response To Murray and Sim
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:34

Murray: Yes, I think we've exhausted meat loaf... giggle.

Sim: But that breakfast sounds awesome! Hee hee... I'll bet you hated to leave that place, hon.

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:32

I think my grapes and apple are gone, time to start "disposing".

Later. (Maybe)

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:30

They fixed a "breakfast" of eggs, cheese, ham, fried rice, peppers, spices, that I loved, I even
order it sometimes in the evening.

I don't recall "everything" it included, but it sure was good.

I'd like to find someone to show me how to fix that meal.

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:25

I'll bet you never had marshmallow fried rice,

Not that I recall,but then my "memory tape" has a few "blank spaces", kinda like "Nixon's
tapes", nowatimean???

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:22

I draw the line at swapping recipes, just so you know. grin

dori
In Response To Sim
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:21

I'll bet you never had marshmallow fried rice, eh? Me either!!! 8-)

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:20

And all of the are "GOOD".
and all of "THEM" are "GOOD".

Tyrd.

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:20

You made me roar with laughter when you posted that... It just struck me funny, cause I'd
never really thought of that. She was a great friend to have. She would make a huge turkey for
Thanksgiving because her husband was American and they didn't like leftovers, so she'd give
the rest to me--all but the tail! Hee hee... When I told her the tail was pure fat, I think I took
some of the pleasure away. She also taught me how to make egg rolls and fried rice.

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:18

I was stationed on "Okinawa" for a year and half and I suppose I've eaten "rice" about every
way it can be prepared, and believe me, they have some very "creative ways" of fixing it, and
all of the are "GOOD".

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:14

Yeah, you asked me about veggies. As long as we stay out of the cabbage family. Of course, I
was thinking of cultural Orientals on the other deal. I don't think you find a lot of meat loaf in
the Orient. Once they eat it, I think they're basically transformed into Americans. LOL

Sim 2
In Response To Ten Megs
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:11

Go figure out how fresh water fish survived 7000 ppm salinity and get back to me, okay?

I've got all the answers, you're the one with all the questions.

You couldn't comprehend it anyway, it's "spiritual", not "Carnal".

dori
In Response To Murray and Sim
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:10

Murray: Hee hee... well, she would have preferred it if I'd had ham or chicken, but meatloaf
was all I had in the fridge, so she said that would be fine. And boy was it! Besides, I'm sure a
FEW orientals eat meatloaf. My Korean daughter does... *-)

Sim: Peas it is! Of course I didn't ask Murray, did I?

Sim 2
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:08

Eat like a hog. Sleep like a log. Right, Sim?

Yep, "stumps" sticking out from under the cover on all sides of the bed. LOL

"You're going have to straighten up", is word Barb wakes me up with when she come to bed.
LOL

Murray
In Response To Sim
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:08

What did evolution do to cud chewing rabbits? Turn them into heifers?

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Sim
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:06

Go figure out how fresh water fish survived 7000 ppm salinity and get back to me, okay?

Sim 2
In Response To Ten Megs
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:05

You can't do that. That's where the cud chewing rabbit is.

OH, they were "cud chewing rabbits", back in Noah's day, but ya see what your "evilution" has
done to them.

Murray
In Response To oops Sim
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:04

Last one was to you, buddy. Sorry Doris.

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:03

Eat like a hog. Sleep like a log. Right, Sim? LOL

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:02

How about peas?

Sounds good to me, Barb puts "butter" in them, and I eat like a "hog". (yep, even grunt)lol


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 16:02:37 04/19/02 Fri

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:02

How about peas?

Sounds good to me, Barb puts "butter" in them, and I eat like a "hog". (yep, even grunt)lol

Ten Megaton Solution
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:00

Skip Leviticus? SKIP Leviticus? SKIP LEVITICUS?

You can't do that. That's where the cud chewing rabbit is.

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 18:00

Orientals eat meat loaf?

dori
In Response To Sim
Friday April 19, 2002 at 17:58

Well pull up a chair with Murray. I made lots! Hee hee... What vegetable shall I make? How
about peas?

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 17:57

Cold meatloaf sandwiches are the BEST! Grin... On rye bread! Have you ever had meatloaf
fried rice? An oriental friend of mine fixed that for me once with my leftover meatloaf and it
was really good! Yum! See you later. Bon appetit!

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 17:56

But we're just having leftover spaghetti and meatballs.

I like "leftovers", Barb says we don't need a "garbage disposal" with me around. lol

I put some grapes and apple in my cooler last night and ate them on the way home, so I'm not
"too hungry" right now, but give me a couple of hours and I'll start "disposing". lol

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 17:51

Sounds like a plan. See ya later. BTW, I like spaghetti warmed over also, but the ultimate in
warmed over eating delight is meat loaf. Much, much better the second time and also one of
the most overlooked sandwich possibilities. And, you can cut it up and put it in spaghetti
sauce. Then you really have something. LOL

dori
In Response To Well, Murray...
Friday April 19, 2002 at 17:45

...after I finish the first five books (almost done with Leviticus), I'll read that one. A good friend
of mine told me it was important to read Leviticus, even though I wanted to just skip it. So, I'm
reading it anyway. I kind of glossed over it the other night and didn't see anything of much
interest, I'm afraid. But, I want to at least do the first five books for a better understanding of
the laws of the time. I've always ignored them.

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 17:38

"You know, I'll bet if we tried we could probably find a lot of scripture that blends both
points of view..."

That's because Scripture does blend both points of view.

It paints a tremendous picture of the grace of God being poured into our lives and of a lifestyle
we are to live in the world. The most beautiful example of this is the book of Ephesians, which
is six chapters. The first three deal almost exclusively with what God did for us. The last three
with what we are to do for Him and for others.

dori
In Response To Sim
Friday April 19, 2002 at 17:37

I guess that's more work for you, huh? LOL! Must be nice to sand bag. They'll pay the piper
one day, though. Sorry to disappoint ya, but we're just having leftover spaghetti and meatballs.
Of course, it always tastes better the second day to me. 8-)

Sim 2
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 17:23

Yep, nice trip, 5 of the workers at GM took the day off to attend the "races", their
"replacments" took 4 hours to do what they normally do in 1, then I had to stop at the terminal
and have my air conditioner "fixed".

18 hour day are "nice". LOL

What's fur supper? Must be something "good", people who call it "dinner" fix stuff I don't like.
LOL

dori
In Response To Hey Sim!
Friday April 19, 2002 at 17:18

Things're kinda quiet right now. I'm heading off to fix supper in a minute. Did you have a nice
trip?

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Friday April 19, 2002 at 17:12

OK, funs over, I'm back. LOL

dori
In Response To Pac
Friday April 19, 2002 at 16:57

Might I suggest a visit to your local library and a perusal of some of the art books? Most of
that type of art is symbolic and I daresay modern day theologians would be hard pressed to
interpret their meanings. I do know there were several biblical scenes depicted back in
Michelangelo's era. But art is truly in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? I don't think I'd want that
one in my church. LOL!

Ten Megaton Solution
Friday April 19, 2002 at 16:46

"That isn't in the Bible! That is a religion made by man." I wasn't equipped to answer them
back, but now I think I could meet that challenge.

I'll help ya out. Tell 'em that all religions are made by man, even the one they think isn't a
religion.

Covers all irrational arguments neatly, concisely, and accurately.

Pac1
In Response To Ron
Friday April 19, 2002 at 16:45

Oh, and imho, the look in Mary’s eyes portrayed a look of both dominance and satisfaction in
feeding this Shepard. While there, I discussed this picture with a few other people. They were
perplexed to say the least.

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 16:25

You know, I'll bet if we tried we could probably find a lot of scripture that blends both points
of view. When I first came here and was questioned about some of the practices of Catholics
and I tried to answer the questions from my limited knowledge, most of the time the response
was, "That isn't in the Bible! That is a religion made by man." I wasn't equipped to answer
them back, but now I think I could meet that challenge. At least I can defend that charge a little
better.

Pac1
In Response To Ron
Friday April 19, 2002 at 16:23

2. dori Friday April 5, 2002 at 0:10 says, “Another possibility might be the shepherd may
represent "every man" and the Virgin Mary figure might be the church.”

Dori, I doubt the shepherd represented "every man", because he had a halo over his head and
Jesus is usually represented in that way. Isn't HE ?

Ron, what do you think the picture in conveying? And why in your mind would it be that Mary
represents the Catholic Church, as dori thinks is a possibility?

Again, IMHO, the picture insinuates that Mary has preeminence over Christ.

Pac1
In Response To Ron
Friday April 19, 2002 at 16:23

1. Ron as you know there are many things, concerning Catholicism, that I disagree with, which
are relevant to Salvation.

Did you see this post?

I went to one of the California Missions in Calif.
Hanging on one of the walls was a large picture of the Virgin Mary floating on the clouds. Her
left breast was exposed and she was squirting breast milk downward to a knelling man, a
Shepard, with a Shepard’s staff, who was also floating in the clouds. He had his mouth open
and was drinking this supposed “milk" of heaven. He also had a “halo” over his head. I
personally believe this Shepard represented Jesus. There was no inscriptions explaining the
meaning of the picture.

IMHO, the picture insinuates that Mary has preeminence over Christ.. ~continued ~

dori
In Response To Ctaj
Friday April 19, 2002 at 16:19

LOL! Yeah, I'm the big disrupter here... hee hee

I don't suppose your disdain for the place has anything to do with the fact you won't be
allowed to go there and commandeer the place, does it? *-)

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 15:36

Yes, it is wonderful that we finally found a Scripture which, taken and understood as a whole,
unites us rather than puts us in different camps. I look forward to building upon this with you as
we interact going forward.

`Ctaj
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 15:35

As he clearly defines the purpose of his forum, i.e., "This forum is for those who love the One,
Holy and Catholic Church and wish to defend Her from slander and abuse," I won't be
intruding on the closed service. And I suspect that while you're there, the "petty fighting that
erupts from time to time" here will be considerably diminished.

dori
In Response To Storm is a brewing...
Friday April 19, 2002 at 15:18

...back in awhile.

dori
In Response To Connie
Friday April 19, 2002 at 15:17

When you read at the True Church site, you have to click on the previous thread and next
thread links to see all of the topics. I don't like that setup as well, but Ron may change it to an
easier format and pick the one that allows us to scroll similarly to here. I think there are a lot of
ways to set it up.

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 15:07

Yes, I can agree both of our viewpoints are represented in that scripture.


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 15:59:59 04/19/02 Fri

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

Ten Megaton Solution
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:55

Professor Glueck has written, "It is worth emphasizing that in all this work no
archaeological discovery has ever controverted a single, properly understood biblical
statement."

What, did the version of the Bible he had leave out the Flood? That never happened, and
archeological evidence shows that quite convincingly.

`Ctaj
In Response To Connie
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:55

I've never questioned the existence of Jerusalem, nor of King David or Solomon. Jerusalem,
as I recall, was where Josiah reigned after someone brought him the long lost (1,000+ years)
Mosaic Laws, which he used as an excuse to kill off all of his rivals. His reign, and jewish life
under the law of Moses, lasted about a dozen years before the several tribes scattered across
the hinterlands.

I don't see that any of this archeological evidence proves anything supernatural. Nor does
anything else in Jeffrey's book The Signature of God, in which I made an ill-advised
investment.

dori
In Response To Connie and Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:52

Connie: It won't matter what disguise anyone uses if they don't know what the password is,
they can only read there. That's the beauty of the password system. I think Ron would
welcome people like you and Gerry to come to the True Church room. He doesn't mind
dissent and he rarely gets upset even when people are rude. I think his aim is to have a place
where Catholics can refute much of the anti-Catholic hatred so prevalent in society. What
better way than an informal place to chat where everyone agrees to be civil, even when not
agreeing. I'm sure he welcomes people of all faiths. I think that could be done here a lot more if
all the hogwashes and guffaws were dispensed with. *-)

Murray: I agree!!!

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Connie
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:51

"Can we Trust the Bible"?...

Yesterday I posted that the salinity of the combined flood water and oceans would be about
8000 ppm chloride, far too high for fresh water fish. Yet we have fish, but the Bible doesn't
record an aquarium.

No. We cannot trust the Bible without independent empirical fact, like a door lintel with
David's name on it to prove he existed. (Actually, I never had any doubt that he existed, but
some apparently did.)

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Connie
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:48

I've never disputed that portions of the Bible are historically accurate. I reject the assumption
that it it entirely accurate.

There is adequate historical evidence to prove that George Washington existed. There is no
proof that he chopped down a cherry tree. Myths grow up around leading figures as other
people attempt to use the celebrity to fit their own purposes.

The man that developed blood typing and thus made transfusions reliable is claimed by some
to have bled to death because a whites only hospital would not admit him. That tale is false, yet
it is still repeated by the race baiters.

`Ctaj
In Response To Connie
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:32

From Grant Jeffries' link:

One of the greatest of these pioneer archeologists is the Jewish scholar Dr. Nelson
Glueck, considered by many to be the greatest Jewish archeologist in history.

If the acheological evidence is so convincing, why is this man still jewish?

Connie
In Response To Ctaj/TMS
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:27

More archeological evidence

Thought you'd enjoy reading about ossified brains.

Connie
In Response To Ctaj/TMS
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:24

Archeology of Biblical sites

Connie
In Response To Ctaj
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:21

Archeological Discoveries

The attitudes behind these attacks on biblical accuracy and authority were those of complete
rejection of God's inspiration of the Scriptures. In addition, many critics approach the Bible
with an attitude of outright denial of supernatural events, such as miracles, and biblical
prophecy. To these unbelieving critics, the presence of a miracle or prophecy in a
biblical text was absolute proof that it was not genuine. Critics rejected the possibility of
inspiration, miracles, and prophecy before they began their examination of the evidence.

Connie
In Response To Ctaj
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:14

The historical evidence for the Bible

Archeology and historical documents can never prove that the Bible is inspired. Rather, the
confirmation of the statements of the Bible through archeological and historical investigations
provides us with powerful evidence of the historical truthfulness of the Word of God and
indicates that its statements were accurately transmitted over thousands of years.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:10

If you do you are only teaching half of the message.

The other half being the hocus pocus concocted by the disciples.


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 12:15:47 04/19/02 Fri

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:09

You can't teach the love of God without teaching the divine judgement which he has
promised to unbelievers.

You can teach the love of your fellow man without throwing in presumptions about virgin births
and resurrections.

`Ctaj
In Response To Connie
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:07

That was about the time Lincoln became a politician, wasn't it?

Connie
In Response To Skeptics
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:05

Historical Evidence about Jesus Christ

President Abraham Lincoln was an agnostic until he reached the age of forty. Then he read Dr.
James Smith's brilliant examination called The Christian's Defence, that established the
historical reality of the events in Christ's life. The evidence from this book convinced Lincoln of
the truth about Jesus, and he became a genuine Christian. "My doubts scattered to the
winds and my reason became convinced by the arguments in support of the inspired
and infallible authority of the Old and New Testaments." (Quoted in Sir Lionel Luckhoo's
book, Evidence Irrefutable Which Can Change Your Lives).

GerryB.
Friday April 19, 2002 at 14:01

Gotta run down and get the mail and spend a few minutes outside getting some fresh air.

BBL GLW.

GerryB.
In Response To CTAJ
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:55

The miracles which Jesus Christ did with the authority and through the power of God the
Father are a very important part of His divine message. You can't teach the love of God
without teaching the divine judgement which he has promised to unbelievers. If you do you are
only teaching half of the message.

GerryB.
In Response To RonB.
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:50

I visited your sites this morning. I like the way you have them set up. I will probably disagree
with much that you post there but I will visit anyway. I probably won't post because that would
just cause arguments. There is, IMHO, no more need for that. I went over to the snake pit and
the snakes are all riled up over there this morning. Thank you.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:49

In short, Gerry, Jefferson considered himself to be "a follower of Jesus Christ and his
teachings," which fits your definition of a Christian. He did not, however, agree with the
teachings of the disciples, who he accused of corrupting the message of Jesus Christ. I concur.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:45

"I separate, therefore, the gold from the dross; restore to Him the former, and leave the latter
to the stupidity of some, and roguery of others of His disciples. Of this band of dupes and
impostors, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus. These
palpable interpolations and falsifications of His doctrines, led me to try to sift them apart. I
found the work obvious and easy, and that His past composed the most beautiful morsel of
morality which has been given to us by man. The syllabus is therefore of His doctrines, not all
of mine. I read them as I do those of other ancient and modern moralists, with a mixture of
approbation and dissent..." -- TJ

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:44

"It is the innocence of His character, the purity and sublimity of His moral precepts, the
eloquence of His inculcations, the beauty of the apologues in which He conveys them, that I so
much admire; sometimes, indeed, needing indulgence to eastern hyperbolism. My eulogies,
too, may be founded on a postulate which all may not be ready to grant. Among the sayings
and discourses imputed to Him by His biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination,
correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others, again, of so much ignorance,
so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible
that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same Being. [con't]

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:43

Good, I'm glad we found a Scripture we agree on. And, although you mention missing
elements, it doesn't appear as though there are any worth mentioning. You are right, it really is
a wonderful thing when we agree with each other, Doris. *-)

Connie
In Response To Murray/Dori/Ron
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:42

Murray: Thank you. I bookmarked it and will read it a little later (in the middle of a project
right now and doing hit and run posting).

Dori: You and I differ on the "if" as you know. We've already been there in private
conversations..smile! Ron: Thanks! I'm glad but wanted to be sure! I noticed you have to have
a password to post but, as I'm sure you know, they are masters at using different handles and
needing a password wouldn't stop that.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:41

The definition of a Christian is to be a follower of Jesus Christ and His teachings. What did
Cayce have to say about that. I would guess that kind of leaves old Thomas Jefferson out
too.

"I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his
doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing
he never claimed any other."
--Thomas Jefferson

RonB
In Response To Connie
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:32

Wonder if Ron will allow them to post at his anti-venom forum or will it be "exclusively"
for those who agree with him as theirs is.

Hi Connie--

No, I definitely will not allow the SnakePit crew to post at AntiVenom -- the whole point is to
'out' their obsession with R1. I'm not giving them another platform for their rantings.

Nor will they gain access to the True Church Forum. It is, as the Welcome message states, a
place where sincere people can discuss and question Catholic Doctrine. Their biggoted attacks
would not be welcome.

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:32

Very well written. I don't totally agree with it, but I do think that maybe you are missing some
key elements when you say "self-righteousness is ...any effort or practice performed by man in
his flesh to achieve the recognition of God or to invoke his acceptance or forgiveness."

This part of scripture backs both our beliefs of righteous living for salvation vs guaranteed
salvation...
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast,

It provides the "if" that I speak of. We are guaranteed salvation IF we have faith and live
righteous lives.

RonB
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:26

I bookmarked both of your new sites. I don't think that I'll post there but it should be
interesting reading, especially when Josiah and his bunch find them.

Hi Gerry--

Originally there was going to one site, but it turned out that I wanted the True Church Forum to
be much more positive -- my wife, Trisha, had quite a bit to do with that. As for AntiVenom
hopefully, eventually, it will help show how ridiculous this sniping from the sidelines is and
everyone will give it a rest (then its reason existence will go away). Meanwhile it is just a way
to have a little fun while blowing off some steam.

Murray
In Response To the girls
Friday April 19, 2002 at 13:06

OK, ladies, I put it up on the net. Here it is:

Self Righteousness Christianity vs. The Righteousness Of God

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 12:41

Yes, I'd like to read it too. And on the topic of what this place has done for us, I must agree
that I have benefited from my association with people here. Read my post to Ron's wife at his
True Church forum if you get a chance.

Concerning Heresy
In Response To "The Pharisee"
Friday April 19, 2002 at 12:37

I pray ye all aren't one of those that believes like the "Pharisee" teaches that Christians can
"live" and/or "walk" in habitual backslidden DARKNESS and still go to heaven ? That God
kills their flesh, but saves their souls ?
The Pharisee also preaches falsely that Christians don't have to ask God to forgive them of
their sins and trespasses because Christians can’t sin…LOL…He needs to be challenged
because this is a new religion, and a deviation from the doctrine of Christ. Read 1 John

Connie
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 12:25

I would love to read it too. Yes, I do understand the difference between self-righteous
Christianity and the Righteousness of God...big difference...sadly, too many practice the first
and then all are tarnished with the same brush. We've seen evidence of that here by the
comments of several posters who lump us all together.

Murray
In Response To Connie/dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 12:23

So, to sum up my previous, I really think that it had a lot to do with our own attitudes. A whole
lot. *-)

Murray
In Response To dori/Connie
Friday April 19, 2002 at 12:20

Well, I've actually enjoyed posting here for the most part since coming back from an
approximate 5 month layoff. It has been a blessing in and of itself and also has been a catalyst
for other good things to happen. Posting here causes me to think harder and search the
Scriptures deeper. Partly as a result of all of this, I wrote a little thing called, "Self Righteous
Christianity vs. The Righteousness Of God." I sent it out all over the place and, quite
unexpectedly it got picked up as a daily devotional by Internet Pastors.com and will shortly be
sent out via email to several thousand people. Normally, they take their devotionals from such
places as Moody Bible Institute and Back To The Bible, but they chose my work over theirs
at least for that one day.

Connie
In Response To Dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 12:17

I share your sadness too...very much.

dori
In Response To Gerry
Friday April 19, 2002 at 12:04

Nope, no bitterness. Only sadness.

Connie
In Response To Dori/Gerry/Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 12:04

Good Morning folks! Hope you all have a great Friday.

Murray: I don't think Dori was referring to you but rather those who only come here to
denigrate believers. Many of us just got tired of being told we were ignoramuses with ossified
brains and know it's a waste of time trying to explain the unexplainable (spiritual vs physical)
because the "spirit" is alive only in believers and gives us understanding of the things of God
that they don't have.

dori
In Response To Murray and Connie
Friday April 19, 2002 at 12:03

Murray: Well, hon, I sure wasn't including you in with the dawgs. LOL! I'll let you surmise
who I consider to have dragged this place down to the point where it is almost as bad as it was
with the banned person here. In fact, it is worse because that person never was a friend. His
words rolled off my back. His agenda was easy to figure out, too. I can't quite figure out the
agenda of the current nay-sayers.

Connie: I think Ron is still testing the waters on whether to open it up. He hates for it to turn
into a place like Reagan's. If you want the password to post, just let him know and he'll give it
to you.


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 12:09:03 04/19/02 Fri

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

Connie
In Response To it
Friday April 19, 2002 at 11:48

I find it interesting that Josiah and those who post at his Christian forum are such a BIG
part of our lives. It seems many of us really can't live without them. Ya got that
backwards...they can't live without us. 90% of their posts at their "christian" forum are bashing
posters at this one.

Wonder if Ron will allow them to post at his anti-venom forum or will it be "exclusively" for
those who agree with him as theirs is.

Murray
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 11:44

This place has gone to the dogs, eh? Thanks for the affirmation. Anyway, you spend as much
time here as anyone. So that either makes you one or a person who likes to hang out with
them.

GerryB.
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 11:37

NOW!!! NOW!!! No bitterness, young lady.

GRIN!!!

dori
In Response To Isn't it?
Friday April 19, 2002 at 11:05

They might as well open it up to them. This place has gone to the dogs anyway. *-)

Isn't it
In Response To Amazing !
Friday April 19, 2002 at 10:13

Ron, I book marked both of your new sites. Should be interesting reading, especially when
Josiah and his bunch find them.

I find it interesting that Josiah and those who post at his Christian forum are such a BIG part of
our lives. It seems many of us really can't live without them.

Maybe this forum should be opened back up to them as long as there is no name calling or
badgering ?

The Mod's Response: Nope. Mod

dori
In Response To Gerry
Friday April 19, 2002 at 9:58

Good! I'll see you in a bit.

GerryB.
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 9:55

I should be around more today than I was the past couple of days. TTYL GLW.

GerryB.
In Response To RonB.
Friday April 19, 2002 at 9:53

I bookmarked both of your new sites. I don't think that I'll post there but it should be
interesting reading, especially when Josiah and his bunch find them.

dori
In Response To Good morning, Gerry!
Friday April 19, 2002 at 9:53

It is a wonderful day...FRIDAY! I hope yours is enjoyable. I must get to work, but I shall
return in a bit.

GerryB.
In Response To dori
Friday April 19, 2002 at 9:51

Good morning.

GerryB.
In Response To Stephen
Friday April 19, 2002 at 9:50

RE: "Unlike thousands of Card Carrying Christian pastors and priests who have stood in front
of people just like you for 20 years or more pulling the wool over your eyes."

It just proves that they are still sinners even though they have been forgiven. It happens. None
of my Pastors has ever been found to be guilty of molesting a child even though one had an
affair with his secretary. He is out of the ministry since that sad day when he was found out.
Being an independent church with no hierarchy we can't and don't just transfer the transgressor
somewhere else. That is the big difference. Has it happened in other non-Roman Catholic
Churches? Sure it does. Does it get covered up? I'm sure that it does. We do live in a fallen
world after all.

dori
In Response To Ron
Friday April 19, 2002 at 9:43

I love BOTH your rooms! They will both bring a beacon of light to the truth. See you there!

GerryB.
In Response To Stephen
Friday April 19, 2002 at 9:12

Good morning. I have spent no time at all here talking of my own righteousness. I have none.
I readily admit that I am a fallen, hell bound creature as is every other human being since the
time of Adam. Unlike you, I admit that I need a redeemer to pay the penalty for my sin and
make me fit to enter into heaven after my death. God sent me a redeemer in the person of
Jesus Christ. I have allowed Him to enter into my heart and to be my savior and, praise God, I
have been forgiven. I am still a sinner but now I am a forgiven sinner who has had my slate
wiped clean forever and ever.

RonB
In Response To Another Forum
Friday April 19, 2002 at 5:47

I've also started a more serious forum called The True Church Forum. My wife, a much more
gentle soul, is also involved with this one, so it should be much more respectable. May God be
with all of good will.

--RonB

Murray
In Response To TB2
Friday April 19, 2002 at 4:45

Aristotle said, "We see the world not as it is, but as we are."

When I see you post here, that's what I'm thinking. Your view of Christians is based on how
you are, not necessarily on how they are. Not all Christians are as small minded as you make
them out to be, but in pointing your finger at them, you show yourself to be so. Not all fail to
bear glad tidings, although you generally do. Not all habitually fail in graciousness and kindness.
You do. Night after night, you crusade, not so much against something, but against your
perception of it. And, in so doing, you unveil yourself. More than you probably realize or
would like to think you do.

Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 4:13

Sometimes, other times I use other tactics...I am a sneaky lil' devil. :-)

My bedtime... I hope you have a good morning and a better day.

RonB
In Response To Sorry, I can't help it!
Friday April 19, 2002 at 4:13

Having a little fun with the SnakePit crew at one of my new forums, AntiVenom.

Let me know what you think -- and if you want to join in. --RonB

The Mod's Response: Ron, LOL, you stinker!! That was a pretty good idea. The best
anti-venom against haters is truly the word of God.. --Kim


[ Edit | View ]

R1 -- stored, 06:27:37 04/19/02 Fri

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

RonB
In Response To Another Forum
Friday April 19, 2002 at 5:47

I've also started a more serious forum called The True Church Forum. My wife, a much more
gentle soul, is also involved with this one, so it should be much more respectable. May God be
with all of good will.

--RonB

Murray
In Response To TB2
Friday April 19, 2002 at 4:45

Aristotle said, "We see the world not as it is, but as we are."

When I see you post here, that's what I'm thinking. Your view of Christians is based on how
you are, not necessarily on how they are. Not all Christians are as small minded as you make
them out to be, but in pointing your finger at them, you show yourself to be so. Not all fail to
bear glad tidings, although you generally do. Not all habitually fail in graciousness and kindness.
You do. Night after night, you crusade, not so much against something, but against your
perception of it. And, in so doing, you unveil yourself. More than you probably realize or
would like to think you do.

Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 4:13

Sometimes, other times I use other tactics...I am a sneaky lil' devil. :-)

My bedtime... I hope you have a good morning and a better day.

RonB
In Response To Sorry, I can't help it!
Friday April 19, 2002 at 4:13

Having a little fun with the SnakePit crew at one of my new forums, AntiVenom.

Let me know what you think -- and if you want to join in. --RonB

Murray
In Response To SJ
Friday April 19, 2002 at 4:07

OK, so you are using the same tactics you despise when used by others.

Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 3:39

"Apparently intolerance is not OK unless it is against intolerance, then it is. It is perhaps the
ultimate irony."

Yep. I agree. In this particular argument though, I believe the ends justifies the means.

"You probably don't see how you are becoming like the very thing you hate."

Oh no, I do see it...I do it on purpose to show clearly that I too can claim to know the
Absolute Truth concerning the Nature of God. I too can condemn any lifestyle different from
my own as evil. I too can trample the deeply held religious beliefs of others, just because I do
not wear any label does not mean I can't act like a Christian or a Muslim.

I believe I have a right to defend my beliefs the same way many on this forum defend their
own.

Murray
In Response To SJ
Friday April 19, 2002 at 3:26

Good Morning to you! Glad you got a chuckle out of the Smalley thing. The forum that laughs
together stays together... or something like that anyway.

Stephen James
In Response To Murray/TB2
Friday April 19, 2002 at 3:11

Man, did you guys just sneak in on me or what?lol

One post I am all alone and next thing I know there is a page inbetween the next...I am so use
to being here at this time alone I don't even refresh the page until I am done posting.

Nice to have the company though...Good Morning to you both.

Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Friday April 19, 2002 at 3:06

LOL!!! I was actually envisioning ol' Stuart when I was writing the "mirror" line...!

Stephen James
In Response To Gerry
Friday April 19, 2002 at 3:05

And before you start in with calling this pedophile problem a Catholic problem, let me assure
you that the Christian denomination of Catholicism is just the beginning. There may not be a
high level of coverup as with the Catholics...but the role of Pastor/Priest is the perfect hiding
place for the vilest of sinners, I believe there are at least as many still hiding amonst Protestant
ranks as have been so far exposed among the Catholic ranks.

Their sins may not be pedophilia, but easily could be adultry, theft, or any abuse of any church
members trust. Those who are exposed prove what most Christian leaders of the past have
proven, man is an animal... and more so when they think they have the Book of God in hand.

Timbuctoo
In Response To The Philosophers
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:48

"If these glad tidings of your Bible were written on your faces, you would not need to insist so
obstinately on the authority of that book... As things are, however, all your apologies for
Christianity have their roots in your lack of Christianity; with your defence plea you inscribe
your own bill of indictment. " from Nietzsche's Assorted Opinions and Maxims,s. 98, R.J.
Hollingdale transl.

Murray
In Response To SJ 2:46
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:47

You forgot to add, " I'm Good Enough, I'm Smart Enough, and Doggone It, People Like Me!"

Stephen James
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:46

Seeing how the truth is that I tout my "righteousness" about once every six months and you and
the Christian crowd do it on a daily basis, I see your statement as though you have a problem
with me touting my righteousness...do I need Christian permission to act Holier than thou?

I can sure tell you this as a fact...I ain't never fondled no little boys or girls, never wanted to
either, never will. Unlike thousands of Card Carrying Christian pastors and priests who have
stood in front of people just like you for 20 years or more pulling the wool over your eyes. I
am definately more morally righteous than those perverted pukes.

Stephen James
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:37

"You appear to be very impressed with your own righteousness."

When I do take the time to think about it...ya damn right I am. There are Billions of people on
this planet thinking ya need to obey dead people and a book and follow lame 2000 year old
traditions to live a moral life. I am one human who is living proof that that is a Lie...

And I am impressed with any human who has been gifted with the ability not to be a mental
slave to the religious ideas of Man. I am such a human, so I am impressed with myself when I
do peer into the mirror.

Am I not allowed to be impressed with myself unless I am wearing an I Love Jesus pin on my
shirt?

Timbuctoo
In Response To The Philosophers
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:36

"Not by accident, you may be sure, do the Christian Scriptures make the father of knowledge
a serpent--slimy, sneaking and abominable." -- H. L. Mencken

Timbuctoo
In Response To The Philosophers
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:34

"Great is the blindness and the exceeding the folly of many Souls that are ever seeking God.
continuously sighing after God, and frequently desiring God; whilst all the time, they are
themselves the tabernacles of the Living God, ...since their Soul is the seat of God, in which He
continuously reposes" (Thomas Aquinas)

Timbuctoo
In Response To The Philosophers
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:33

Here is another one from Morgan ... Who's to say that the guy that heard Jesus say "Eli, Eli,
lemana, Shabakthani!"... errored in not recognizing that these words actually came from the
guy crusified next to Jesus... The 100% probability of error and corruption in the Bible stands
as it's mightest detractor.

Timbuctoo
In Response To The Philosophers
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:30

"Jesus' last words on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" hardly seem
like the words of a man who planned it that way. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure
there is something wrong here." -- "Rev." Donald Morgan

Murray
In Response To SJ
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:28

Apparently intolerance is not OK unless it is against intolerance, then it is. It is perhaps the
ultimate irony.

Do you also have a bumper sticker that says, "Mean People Suck?" These people don't seem
to perceive the meanness with which they attack meanness.

There are a lot of Quakers in my area and many are so-called peace activists. One of the
ladies is particularly militant in her activism for peace. After many years of listening to her rail
against war and weapons and stuff, one of the men in her Quaker meeting couldn't take it any
more and stood up and said, "I wouldn't be surprised to learn you went off to war to fight for
peace."

You probably don't see how you are becoming like the very thing you hate. That's the way it
works.

Timbuctoo
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:23

You spend much time talking about what a great person you are. You appear to be very
impressed with your own righteousness, so Read Luke 14:26 and be disgraced by your own
master.

Stephen James
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:20

"You spend much time talking about what a great person you are."

Oh bullpuckey...I rarely toot my own horn and you know it. Try some honesty and quit trying
to paint me as some looney preachin' like I am Saved or favored by God because of my own
mental delusions. I don't think I have ever said to you "obey this book (any book I choose)
and ask Elvis (or any dead guy I choose) for forgiveness and live like me or burn in Hell
sinner"...have I? Please answer the question Gerry...

Stephen James
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 19, 2002 at 2:08

"Here is what Jesus Christ had to say."37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy
God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul,and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great
commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself."Matthew 22:36-39(KJV). He created us. He loves us. What is wrong with us loving
Him in return?"

Nothing at all...until your "God" instructs you or gives you justification to love him more than
your fellow man, allowing for every form of persecution and hate to be directed at those that
reject your "God". It is called Intolerance. It is Evil.

But your "answer" still does not answer the questions...does your God have a human like Ego
or not, does he feel pride when we love him?

GerryB.
Friday April 19, 2002 at 1:18

It is after 2:00. My bed is not only calling me, it is demanding that I walk over and snuggle up
on it. Hehehe

Good night. TTYL GLW.

GerryB.
In Response To Stephen
Friday April 19, 2002 at 1:16

You spend much time talking about what a great person you are. You appear to be very
impressed with your own righteousness. When someone does that I am reminded of what the
prophet Isaiah said about it. "6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses
are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us
away."Isaiah 64:6(KJV). Rather telling isn't it?

GerryB.
In Response To Stephen
Friday April 19, 2002 at 0:54

RE: "what does our Love do for an Omnipotent God? Does it fill Him with Pride? Did He
Create Humanity so we could stroke God's Human Ego? Or do you think God would be
above such human pettiness?"

Here is what Jesus Christ had to say about that. "37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the
Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first
and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself." Matthew 22:36-39(KJV). He created us. He loves us. What is wrong with us loving
Him in return?


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