R1 -- Sight & Sound

[ Show ]

Support VoyForums

[ Shrink ]

VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, [2], 3, 4 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 11:27:59 04/26/02 Fri
Author: stored
Subject: R1

Religion I

The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)

MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

RonB
In Response To Ten Megs
Friday April 26, 2002 at 5:35

And of course, this statement is false. If the alleged "Christian Revelation" is false, ...

Which, of course, was the point I was making by quoting St. Paul -- with whom you agree.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Ron B
Friday April 26, 2002 at 4:37

If the Christian revelation be not true, I lose nothing by accepting it. If it be true, I gain
everything by accepting it.

And of course, this statement is false. If the alleged "Christian Revelation" is false, and a person
spends time believing it to be true, and acting as if it were true, then that time he's wasted
"believing" is time that could have been better spent on something real.

All recovering alcoholics regret the time wasted in the bottle. Because they were pursuing
something not real.

Stephen James
In Response To RonB
Friday April 26, 2002 at 3:41

"I'm sure that's true, saints are very rare, especially in the world today."

Yes, I believe they always are rare. Of course I also believe quite strongly that a saint does not
have to carry the Bible in hand and the message of Jesus on his/her lips in order to be a saint.

Stephen James
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 26, 2002 at 3:38

"What do you expect? Start being polite and others will be polite to you."

Why should I be polite to a group whose history shows they have been being impolite to
others for 2000 years? Everytime you tell someone who does not hold your beliefs that their
beliefs are wrong or evil or damning to the eternal soul you reach the absolute heights of
impoliteness. I have every right in this country to toss it back in your face any damn time I
wish. You NEVER care about my feelings when you speak of God...why should I care about
yours Gerry? Why? Why? Why?

Stephen James
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 26, 2002 at 3:36

"Yet you moan bitterly about how we attack everyone."

Moan? Nah, grunt is more like it...but what would you prefer Gerry? I suppose I could attack
everyone like you/many Christians do...Gays will burn! Mormons are Demons! Muslims are
Evil! Jews betrayed God! Quakers are Witches! New Agers will suffer eternal torment!

Nahhh I think I will stick to just attacking one group, lots less people I have to hate. Unlike
you, I don't have some looney book I can use to justify hating the majority of the worlds
population.

Stephen James
In Response To GerryB
Friday April 26, 2002 at 3:34

"you have done nothing but complain about Christians and Christian ideals."

Yep,lots to complain about.

"You have never shown one small bit of friendliness to or for Christians."

Is it really my problem that some people cannot tell the difference between attacking a religion
and attacking a person?

There are posters here who claim their religion is the Absolute Truth and have a wish for all of
Mankind to accept it as such. I believe I can show reasonable cause to doubt the assertions of
the Christian religion. Why do you have such a problem with that?

I'll tell you why IMO...it's because you are taking my attacks on your religion as attacks on
you personally. Again, not my problem, not my worry. It's up to you to learn how to see the
separation.

RonB
In Response To On the Fall of Man
Friday April 26, 2002 at 3:17

I've typed in an excerpt from an old Catholic book, contrasting the Catholic and Protestant
views concerning the fall -- it may explain why we disagree so much here. (Of course, few
Protestants believe as the original Protestant reformers believed -- which is something to be
thankful for.) The excerpt can be found at: Contrast between Catholic and Protestant doctrine
on the fall.

RonB
In Response To Stephen James
Friday April 26, 2002 at 3:13

I have met my share of people who called themselves "Christian", and for all their varying
degrees of differences there is always one thing that I find which they all have in
common...they are Human first and foremost, their Christianity playing second fiddle.

I'm sure that's true, saints are very rare, especially in the world today.

Stephen James
In Response To TB2
Friday April 26, 2002 at 2:53

"Christians and Pagans are one people ..."

I have met my share of people who called themselves "Christian", and for all their varying
degrees of differences there is always one thing that I find which they all have in common...they
are Human first and foremost, their Christianity playing second fiddle.

Timbuctoo
In Response To Ron B
Friday April 26, 2002 at 1:16

Ref: "Obviously not, or words mean nothing. It is true, however, that many who claim to be
Christians live as pagans." ~~~ My point, from my perspective is � We are all one people �
all the disagreement is just so much irrelevant sibling rivalry � :)

dori
In Response To Hi Ron
Friday April 26, 2002 at 1:04

Heading off to bed, but just wanted to tell you how much I enjoy your two rooms... The True
Church for the fellowship and the Anti-Venom for the hilarity of your pointing out the foibles of
our demented friends. Kudos! And goodnight! God Bless!

RonB
In Response To Goodnight
Friday April 26, 2002 at 1:02

Goodnight. May God with all of good will.

RonB
In Response To TB2
Friday April 26, 2002 at 1:01

Christians and Pagans are one people ...

Obviously not, or words mean nothing. It is true, however, that many who claim to be
Christians live as pagans.

RonB
In Response To Best Bet (part 2)
Friday April 26, 2002 at 0:59

If the Christian revelation be not true, I lose nothing by accepting it. If it be true, I gain
everything by accepting it. As against this, I for my part will at once advance a certain
sentence of St. Paul's, to the effect that if we are wrong in our choice of the Christian
revelation, then we are "of all men the most misreble."

Pretty much covers it for me. I don't "bet" on my Faith -- I know it is true.

But, what do you think, was it a Slow Venom Day? ;)

RonB
In Response To Ctaj
Friday April 26, 2002 at 0:54

That 83% Christian number is based on a false dichotomy, of course. The way the bet is
couched, "believing" is a one-way bet; there's no penalty for being wrong, as there
supposedly is for disbelieving.

Funny you should bring this "best bet" theory up. I was just reading about its origin in one of
Hailaire Belloc's books, Character's of the Reformation.

From the book:

Two of his [Blaise Pascal's] ideas at least were profound and of high value...One of these
was the somewhat whimsical but arresting conception of the "wager." It is not a rational
conception, but it is caculated to make the skeptic think. It amounts virtually to this:...
(cont.)

Timbuctoo
In Response To The Philosophers
Friday April 26, 2002 at 0:13

Christians and Pagans are one people ...

RonB
In Response To Ctaj
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 23:53

The facts belie your assertion. Most Americans Say They're Christian . You comprise 83%
of our population, while 52% of the rest of the world is non-Christian. Yet, we're the
country with supposedly declining moral values.

Just because they say so, doesn't make it so. Any country that condones abortion is not
Christian. Our country is pagan in everything but name.

RonB
In Response To Stephen James
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 23:49

I truly believe we would be in no different of a position than any of the countries which
still base many of their political policies and laws on religious beliefs and practices...that
position being, mostly poor and uneducated, just like it was for many people in the middle
ages under strict Christian/Catholic rule.

Well, first off, Catholic England, before the so-called "reformation," was not poor or
uneducated. It wasn't until Henry VIII and his greedy mob stole Church property that pauper
laws had to be passed in England. But, for a Christian, poverty, makes the attainment of
heaven easier than does wealth. And I would much rather stand with the poor of Ireland in the
17th Century, than the wealthy of industrial country of England.

GerryB.
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 23:34

I'm out of here. Good night.

GerryB.
In Response To Stephen
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 23:33

From the first moment that you showed up here you have done nothing but complain about
Christians and Christian ideals. You have never shown one small bit of friendliness to or for
Christians. Yet you moan bitterly about how we attack everyone. What do you expect? Start
being polite and others will be polite to you.

dori
In Response To Well for crying out loud!
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 22:48

I figured SOMEONE would have posted by now and scrolled that last one off here... grin.

Ten Megaton Solution
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 18:22

"bulbuous"...better than "bloated", "blooming", "bulging", "bathtub", "bagg", "ballooning", "blue
whale", "blowing", or "bulky".

dori
In Response To Coinky
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 18:08

Words mean things, so if you say the baby and I have a room to paint, I assume you're taking
the baby in that room, plopping it in a baby walker or infant seat and getting out the ol' brush n'
paint can.

Oh, the other "b" was for bulbous, not blue.

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 17:08

Well Shucks, If'n I can't pick a fight, I'm going to bed, 2 am is just a couple of hours after
midnight ya know, don't ya???

Keep buying those GM Vans, you've got them working "Sat"; and so am I.

Maybe, I can sneek a peek back in sometime this weekend.

If'n I can't, just do the best ya can without me, I know it's hard and hurts, but that's "life". LOL

SYT GLW atrdh JKG.

Sim 2
In Response To Ya'll
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 16:40

I'd shore wood like to buy some people for what they know then sell them for what they
"think" they know, Wheee, Doggies, I'd be "RICH".

Do ya seepost there wood be enough money in the world to purchase them???

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

[ Contact Forum Admin ]

Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums^(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.