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Date Posted: 11:00:02 04/21/02 Sun
Author: stored
Subject: R1

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

`Ctaj
In Response To Connie
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 12:45

To paraphrase Maximillian, "If 50 million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

Connie
In Response To Ctaj
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 12:20

"And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell
will not prevail against it." Scoffers have been trying to destroy it for over 2000 years and the
church still stands while the ideologies man has come up with to replace it have come and
gone.

`Ctaj
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 11:36

"We have no spiritual base in this country anymore."

We have it held down by the Constitution, but it's like that damned Hydra of Greek
Mythology, the 9-headed monster that, whenever Hercules cut off one head, two more grew
back.

`Ctaj
In Response To RonB
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 11:25

Resuscitated

`Ctaj
In Response To RonB
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 11:24

Ctaj: Apparently it doesn't, since there weren't any witnesses. At least none that we heard
from in the bible. Only hearsay.

RonB:Maybe not of the actual resurrection, but of the resurrected Christ.

No, not of the actual resurrection, nor of the actual death on the cross, nor of the actual placing
the body in the tomb. You have a very circumstantial case.

The more plausible story is that he didn't die on the cross, Joseph rescued him and never
placed him in the tomb, and that the "vision" seen afterward was of a resuscutated Jesus, not a
resurrected one.

Murray
In Response To dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 10:21

Like I said, detente stops with you when there is a conflict or disagreement of some kind.
Perhaps you are incapable of successfully relating to others below anything other than the most
superficial level. Keep it light and airy. Pretend to agree when you really don't just to preserve
amity. Never explore anything in too much depth, never be serious, never really look into
ourselves to see what beliefs drive us. Whine when others mischaracterize you, but run away
from the responsibility of it when you do it yourself. This is what you ask people to do in order
to have a relationship with you. You ask too much because you settle for too little.

Murray
In Response To dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 10:05

Ah, but you do speak for me. You have said at various times that I proclaim "once saved
always saved." Yet I don't. You have said that the upshot of my words is that I advocate a
"free ride," which, of course, I don't.

As far as the other thing is concerned, all I can say is that, at best, you are severely limiting
having communion with the Lord by what you say. If you are truly his, He is present in your life
all the time and you can commune with Him to great depths any time and any place just like
Brother Lawrence, who wrote, "In continuing the practice of conversing with God throughout
each day, and quickly seeking His forgiveness when I fell or strayed, His presence has become
as easy and natural to me now as it once was difficult to attain."

dori
In Response To Saint Fulgentius?
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 10:00

Who in the hell is that, Murray? Try looking up what our current Pope has to say about those
"official" teachings.

dori
In Response To Murray
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:58

Please save the preaching for someone who cares. You don't understand any more than I do
what these "official" church teachings are that you throw out at me, Murray. I try to follow the
teachings the best I can, but there are some I don't agree with. I'll have to deal with that come
judgement day, I guess. Sooo... you have nailed me, hon. I'm a cafeteria Catholic. Now, do
you feel better? You are not going to corner me into debating you on my faith. Ain't gonna
happen. End of subject. God bless.

Murray
In Response To nice try dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:47

Everything's fine when we talk about meat loaf, but when we get into the nitty gritty, you are
the one who bails out from the detente because you have such a low tolerance for conflict. All
you are saying by your comments is that you are a cafeteria Catholic. You want what makes
you feel good about your involvement there and ignore the fact that the church has an official
position that condemns non-Catholics to hell. Or, as Saint Fulgentius declared with the utmost
clarity, "Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only all pagans, but also all Jews, all
heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the
eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels."

*Coinkydink
In Response To One more to Dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:39

Last one then I have to hit the shower...You said, "started calling religious people right-wing
whackos."

The people I call right wing wackos are the ones who want to change the Constitution or make
laws based on their religious views at the expense of all other religious views...they ARE
religious wackos. They are like MM2 or Tamarisk... Is that who you're feeling all sympathetic
to... Would you want them to make laws that persecute you for your life and religion? I
wouldn't.

Gotta go now...out to breakfast and on to meeting...TTFN!

*Coinkydink
In Response To Doridoodles
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:33

"We have no spiritual base in this country anymore." You're right that the spiritual base in the
country is not strong enough. Part of that is because of the influence of TV, constant war and
the striving for affluence that has become endemic since the 40's. When I was growing up, we
all thought the world was going to blow itself up and we'd never live to be over 25 or 30...we
felt hopeless about the future and tried to recreate a world of brotherly love as the 60's
generation. Meanwhile our parents chased the all mighty dollar, because they'd been through a
horrible depression and wanted a better life for us, their kids.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Doriola
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:26

Haha, I have relatives that think I'm going to Hell for not being a Pentacostal holy roller and
not speaking in tongues...heck, I couldn't even learn to speak Spanish very well! :)

dori
In Response To And finally....
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:23

The main difference in going to a Catholic Mass and a Protestant service is to receive the
Blessed Sacrament of the bread and wine, the body and blood of Christ. That is the key part
of the Catholic faith and that is the main reason why Catholics need to attend Mass. Christ told
His Apostles at the Last Supper to "Do this in memory of Me." So we do. If we attend
services at a family or friend's church, we still attend a Mass for this reason, not because we
feel superior to Protestants, but because we feel that is the whole reason for going to
church--to commune with Christ. Please don't speak for me Murray. I don't speak for you.
God bless.

dori
In Response To Continued to Murray
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:14

My faith is very personal to me. Whether or not you go to heaven is between you and God.
My church is telling me that ours is the true church based on the fact that we follow Christ's
teachings from the New Testament, and those of the Apostles. I condemn no one for attending
another church. If I did, I would not have much to talk about at family gatherings, since I'm the
only Catholic in my family. It wouldn't make any sense to be a Catholic if I didn't think I was
following the true church, would it? If you didn't think YOUR church was the true church,
would you go? LOL! I think it is up to each of us to work out the semantics. As long as we
believe in Christ and follow Him, it doesn't matter where we go to church, as long as we find
Him there.

dori
In Response To Murray
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 9:03

Re: The truth also is that, to be a true Catholic, you have to believe that it is the one true
church. To believe this means that, to a Catholic, those outside the R.C. Church have
basically zero chance of heaven. That likewise means that you do as you blame others,
that being you think there is something wrong with the faith of non-Catholics and that we
need to become Catholic and follow its teachings to have a shot at heaven.

Why do you presume to speak for me? You say to be a "true" Catholic I must believe that my
church is the one true church. I do. But then you say in doing that I am doing that which I
blame others of doing--telling others their church is wrong and they have no chance of going to
heaven unless they are Catholic. I do not!

dori
In Response To Murray
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 8:37

Well THAT little detente didn't last long, did it? LOL!

Sim 2
In Response To GerryB
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 7:19

Morning:

I got back from "surfing" just in time to leave again. lol

SY after Church. GLW

GerryB.
In Response To Sunny
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 6:53

Please get over it. There is no such thing as a post-tribulation rapture. The Bible clearly
describes a pre-tribulation rapture of the saints.

"When all the saints go marching in..."

GerryB.
In Response To Sim
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 6:48

Hehehe 'morning, my brother in Christ.

Gonna get your pick-up washed eh? I had to pay to run my van through the car wash a few
days ago. Day before yesterday we got about a 10 minute thunder shower. Lots of sound and
fury but not much benefit from it.

Sim 2
In Response To Sunny
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 6:16

Form the first verse of Matt 24 until the parable of the fig tree, is all written to the JEWS, not
the church, the church will never see the "abomination of desolation".

Much of the NT is written "to the Jews", not the church, during the trib, some will come to
believe in Jesus.

Example:
Lu 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the
wedding;

When Jesus "returns from the "Marriage supper of the Lamb", (Pre trib rapture of the church)is
written to the Jews, not the church.

Jesus, as a "VINE" doesn't bear "FIGS" (Jews). Jas 3:12

Sim 2
In Response To Sunny
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 6:09

Morning:

One of the "signs of the times" is the "falling away" of people's ability to "correctly interpret
Scripture".

The timing of Rapture, the purpose of Tribulation, to whom it applies, or doesn't apply, and all
the "Confusion" surrounding these events proves they "AREN'T" listening to the teaching of the
"Holy Ghost".

Jesus said if you don't understand the parables, you can't understand the bible, and they
"NEVER" mention the parable that tells the timing of the rapture, why???

The answer is simple, they don't have "eyes" "ears" to see and understand.

Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they
hear not, neither do they understand.

Sim 2
In Response To GerryB
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 5:55

You still around?

Yep, aint dead yet. LOL

Morning, I think "Mothernature" is going to give me a "free pickup wash" today, mine needs it.

Murray
In Response To dori
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 4:29

"I'm not whining..."

Yeah, right! LOL

Doris, the truth is that you give as well as you get.

The truth also is that, to be a true Catholic, you have to believe that it is the one true church.
To believe this means that, to a Catholic, those outside the R.C. Church have basically zero
chance of heaven. That likewise means that you do as you blame others, that being you think
there is something wrong with the faith of non-Catholics and that we need to become Catholic
and follow its teachings to have a shot at heaven.

I go back to my original comment. People and organizations that succeed are almost
continually moving forward and pay little or no regard to the criticism and/or disapproval of
others.

See ya later...

Sunny
In Response To Alternate Religion forum
Sunday April 21, 2002 at 3:07

An article on post-tribulation rapture.

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