Re: Need help/support/ and opinions -- American Top 40: The Countdown of the Century

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Date Posted: 15:31:14 03/12/03 Wed
Author: Mark Johnson
Subject: Re: Need help/support/ and opinions
In reply to: John Jayne 's message, "Need help/support/ and opinions" on 10:02:43 03/12/03 Wed

>Hi everyone,
>
>On another board (that I'll leave nameless), I've been
>getting a lot of static from a guy, who thinks he's
>the Masterofpopmusic. Obviously he hasn't met this
>group, unfortuantely I let him know about this site,
>so he could get on here and start fights.
>
>Rob, knows my credentials, as well as some others on
>this board, so I know I'm in good company here.
>
>Here goes with some observations that have started
>arguements with this guy.
>
>#1 Someone had called Meredith Brooks a one hit
>wonder, though she only hit the BILLBOARD top 40 once
>with "Bitch", I can see their point (I know however
>that "What Would Happen" and "Stop" also made Radio &
>Records top 40). Anyway "What Would Happen" hit #46
>on BB, so this poster mentioned that to the guy, who
>responed with not thinking that #46 is really a hit,
>now I know that that's really a matter of opinion,
>however the debate started over the next fact, he
>tried to compare "What Would Happen"s #46 peak as
>being equal to Natalie Imbruglia"s "Torn" which on the
>HOT 100 has a peak of #42.
>
>I pointed out that "Torn" is a horrible example,
>because the only reason it appears to have a #42 peak
>is that BB changed theor methodology to allowing
>non-singles on the chart, and that #42 isn't really a
>legitimite peak (as is the #42 peak of Gloria
>Estefan's "Reach" for example).
>
>"Torn" debuted in the airplay top 40, in like January
>or February of 1998 and stayed on the chart almost an
>entire year with a peak at #1 for 11 weeks (BB & R &
>R), the only reason in Joel Whitburn's books it peaks
>at #42, is that the song was on its last 2 weeks of
>life, in December '98 when the chart change occured.
>I feel that any discussion trying to say that it's a
>#42 hit is very misleading and inaccurate, and any
>song that was on it's last life when the change
>occured should be reffered to the airplay chart,
>another example is "Real World" by Matchbox Twenty.
>Also "Torn" doesn't even show up in Joel Whitburn's
>BILLBOARD BOOK OF TOP 40 hits, where other airplay
>only titles appear, like Natalie's "Wishing You Were
>There", and the only reason that "Torn" isn't listed
>is beacuse it was so strong that it's last two weeks
>of life were in December and it appeared for two weeks
>on the HOT 100. If BB would have changed this two
>weeks later or at the beginning of the calender year,
>"Torn" would have been listed in the Whitburn book, I
>think this stinks.
>
>Also I tried to point out to this poster, that the
>BILLBOARD charts in the late '90s were not very
>accurate, as there were so many hit songs that weren't
>eligible to chart because there were no commercial
>singles, among these would be the #1 hits "Fly",
>"Don't Speak", "Men In Black" , and the above
>mentioned "Torn". There was a chart in the summer of
>'98 that when you looked at the Top 40 airplay, there
>were 20 songs that weren't eligible for the HOT 100,
>that's half the top 40. I pointed out that the '70's
>and '80's charts were more accurate because things
>were released as singles, so you didn't have such a
>tilt in the looks of the chart.
>
>His arguement was that there's always been album cuts,
>that weren't eligible so the charts have always been
>that way. I acknowledged that there's always been a
>handful of exceptions like "Stairway To Heaven",
>"Under My Thumb", and a few Beatles tunes. But that
>handful was so scattered in time that it didn't make
>the chart that off, maybe a song or two but....? I
>did some research, starting in 1984 when BB started
>posting an airplay top 40 through 1991 (7 year
>stretch), through 1992-1998 (7 year stretch), and
>here's what I found: between 1984 and 1991 there were
>6 songs that made airplay top 40 that were ineligible
>for the HOT 100, 7 if you count "Tell Me I'm Not
>Dreamin" by Jermaine Jackson that hit #6 in R & R
>before BB had their airplay charts, the others were
>two songs by Bon Jovi, a Janet Jackson, a Madonna,
>Bart Simpson, I can't remember the other, I'll even
>throw in "Into The Groove" by Madonna that hit the top
>40 for R & R, that's 8 songs.) Betweeen 1992 and 1998
>there were like 130 songs.
>
>Also who repoted to BB's pop charts in the '60's?...
>AM radio stations that I don't think played deep into
>album cuts, they barely even liked to play a song over
>3 minutes, so I doubt there were a lot that were going
>to make it then, with the exception of some Beatles
>tunes, but hey the Beatles were the Beatles.
>
>The other arguement is over the 1990 version of
>"Unchained Melody". I mentioned that the 1965 version
>was the last song to hit the top 40 available as a 7
>inch vinyl only, and that was the version that got all
>the airplay, so the Righteous Brothers went into the
>studio to re-record the song and that's the other
>version that charted, which really didn't get much
>airplay, but all the sales because it was available as
>a cassette single (the top configuration at the time),
>I also said that there was a CD single of it put out
>as well. That's wehere the arguemnet started, he says
>there is no CD single of it (which I Own by the way),
>and that my buddy Whitburn says it's cassette only.
>In Whitburn's book he says that one is vinyl only, and
>one is cassette only, I see that but all Whitburn was
>pointing at was that one was on vinyl, and the other
>wasn't, he doesn't list every configuration
>something's on. He doesn't pointout that something is
>a vinyl single, cassette single, 12 inch vinyl,
>cassette-Maxi, CD single, CD-Maxi etc. He lists the
>#1 configuration at the time, not everything... That
>doesn't mean something isn't available on other
>formats, he was just pointing out that it wasn't on
>vinyl..
>
>This guy also says that the 1990 "Unchained Melody"
>isn't on any CD, well besides the CD single I
>mentioned, it is on the Best of The Righteous Brothers
>CD on Curb records, that charted for three weeks in
>1990 on the album chart. Ya see he fancies himself as
>a collector, because he downloads every song. Where I
>went out and purchased the actual piece, and have been
>doing it for years. So he finds a download of this
>"Unchained Melody" and it says tape only, so he takes
>this as Gospel no matter what anyone says, and it
>really ticks me off, considering my trails, travels,
>and tribulations through the yaers, it also hurts my
>integrity.
>
>There's many other isssues with this guy as well,
>who'll pick apart, and argue with just about
>everything someone says. So I'd like all your takes
>on these matters. Thanks>>
>
>
>By the way here are the tracks on the Rightoeus
>Brothers CD single:
>
>1. Unchained Melody (Album Version)
>2. Unchained Melody (Timeless Love Extended Version)
>3. Unchained Melody (Timeless Love Instrumental
>Version)
>4. Ebbtide
>
>it's on Curb D2-76844
>
>
>Thanks!!!!!!

I totally agree with what John is saying. Whitburn book of Hot 100 hits of the 90's(which I own by the way) after about 1992-1993 is not really representative of what was hot in music at the time. Now in 2003, does Whitburn think that country songs by such artists as George Strait and newbies like Blake Shelton are legitimate Top 40 hits? Another song that never appeared on the Hot 100 that went to #1 on R & R was "Mr. Jones" by Counting Crows which DID however appear on American Top 40 with D'Shadoe in 1994. Or the fact the "Tha Crossroads" spent 8 weeks at #1 on the Hot 100 but only got to #19 or 20 on CT40? So I agree with what John is saying. No wonder Dr. Rob calls it the Cold 100.

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