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Date Posted: 10:02:43 03/12/03 Wed
Author: John Jayne
Subject: Need help/support/ and opinions

Hi everyone,

On another board (that I'll leave nameless), I've been getting a lot of static from a guy, who thinks he's the Masterofpopmusic. Obviously he hasn't met this group, unfortuantely I let him know about this site, so he could get on here and start fights.

Rob, knows my credentials, as well as some others on this board, so I know I'm in good company here.

Here goes with some observations that have started arguements with this guy.

#1 Someone had called Meredith Brooks a one hit wonder, though she only hit the BILLBOARD top 40 once with "Bitch", I can see their point (I know however that "What Would Happen" and "Stop" also made Radio & Records top 40). Anyway "What Would Happen" hit #46 on BB, so this poster mentioned that to the guy, who responed with not thinking that #46 is really a hit, now I know that that's really a matter of opinion, however the debate started over the next fact, he tried to compare "What Would Happen"s #46 peak as being equal to Natalie Imbruglia"s "Torn" which on the HOT 100 has a peak of #42.

I pointed out that "Torn" is a horrible example, because the only reason it appears to have a #42 peak is that BB changed theor methodology to allowing non-singles on the chart, and that #42 isn't really a legitimite peak (as is the #42 peak of Gloria Estefan's "Reach" for example).

"Torn" debuted in the airplay top 40, in like January or February of 1998 and stayed on the chart almost an entire year with a peak at #1 for 11 weeks (BB & R & R), the only reason in Joel Whitburn's books it peaks at #42, is that the song was on its last 2 weeks of life, in December '98 when the chart change occured. I feel that any discussion trying to say that it's a #42 hit is very misleading and inaccurate, and any song that was on it's last life when the change occured should be reffered to the airplay chart, another example is "Real World" by Matchbox Twenty. Also "Torn" doesn't even show up in Joel Whitburn's BILLBOARD BOOK OF TOP 40 hits, where other airplay only titles appear, like Natalie's "Wishing You Were There", and the only reason that "Torn" isn't listed is beacuse it was so strong that it's last two weeks of life were in December and it appeared for two weeks on the HOT 100. If BB would have changed this two weeks later or at the beginning of the calender year, "Torn" would have been listed in the Whitburn book, I think this stinks.

Also I tried to point out to this poster, that the BILLBOARD charts in the late '90s were not very accurate, as there were so many hit songs that weren't eligible to chart because there were no commercial singles, among these would be the #1 hits "Fly", "Don't Speak", "Men In Black" , and the above mentioned "Torn". There was a chart in the summer of '98 that when you looked at the Top 40 airplay, there were 20 songs that weren't eligible for the HOT 100, that's half the top 40. I pointed out that the '70's and '80's charts were more accurate because things were released as singles, so you didn't have such a tilt in the looks of the chart.

His arguement was that there's always been album cuts, that weren't eligible so the charts have always been that way. I acknowledged that there's always been a handful of exceptions like "Stairway To Heaven", "Under My Thumb", and a few Beatles tunes. But that handful was so scattered in time that it didn't make the chart that off, maybe a song or two but....? I did some research, starting in 1984 when BB started posting an airplay top 40 through 1991 (7 year stretch), through 1992-1998 (7 year stretch), and here's what I found: between 1984 and 1991 there were 6 songs that made airplay top 40 that were ineligible for the HOT 100, 7 if you count "Tell Me I'm Not Dreamin" by Jermaine Jackson that hit #6 in R & R before BB had their airplay charts, the others were two songs by Bon Jovi, a Janet Jackson, a Madonna, Bart Simpson, I can't remember the other, I'll even throw in "Into The Groove" by Madonna that hit the top 40 for R & R, that's 8 songs.) Betweeen 1992 and 1998 there were like 130 songs.

Also who repoted to BB's pop charts in the '60's?... AM radio stations that I don't think played deep into album cuts, they barely even liked to play a song over 3 minutes, so I doubt there were a lot that were going to make it then, with the exception of some Beatles tunes, but hey the Beatles were the Beatles.

The other arguement is over the 1990 version of "Unchained Melody". I mentioned that the 1965 version was the last song to hit the top 40 available as a 7 inch vinyl only, and that was the version that got all the airplay, so the Righteous Brothers went into the studio to re-record the song and that's the other version that charted, which really didn't get much airplay, but all the sales because it was available as a cassette single (the top configuration at the time), I also said that there was a CD single of it put out as well. That's wehere the arguemnet started, he says there is no CD single of it (which I Own by the way), and that my buddy Whitburn says it's cassette only. In Whitburn's book he says that one is vinyl only, and one is cassette only, I see that but all Whitburn was pointing at was that one was on vinyl, and the other wasn't, he doesn't list every configuration something's on. He doesn't pointout that something is a vinyl single, cassette single, 12 inch vinyl, cassette-Maxi, CD single, CD-Maxi etc. He lists the #1 configuration at the time, not everything... That doesn't mean something isn't available on other formats, he was just pointing out that it wasn't on vinyl..

This guy also says that the 1990 "Unchained Melody" isn't on any CD, well besides the CD single I mentioned, it is on the Best of The Righteous Brothers CD on Curb records, that charted for three weeks in 1990 on the album chart. Ya see he fancies himself as a collector, because he downloads every song. Where I went out and purchased the actual piece, and have been doing it for years. So he finds a download of this "Unchained Melody" and it says tape only, so he takes this as Gospel no matter what anyone says, and it really ticks me off, considering my trails, travels, and tribulations through the yaers, it also hurts my integrity.

There's many other isssues with this guy as well, who'll pick apart, and argue with just about everything someone says. So I'd like all your takes on these matters. Thanks>>


By the way here are the tracks on the Rightoeus Brothers CD single:

1. Unchained Melody (Album Version)
2. Unchained Melody (Timeless Love Extended Version)
3. Unchained Melody (Timeless Love Instrumental Version)
4. Ebbtide

it's on Curb D2-76844


Thanks!!!!!!

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