Rick and the BLOG -- Utah's Religion Debate

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Date Posted: 07:28:58 08/09/06 Wed
Author: Sheepdog
Subject: Rick and the BLOG

Can everyone do us a favor? Please leave this thread for rick and sheepdog to comment on. If you want to discuss points made here, please start a new thread so that it�s just rick and Sheepdog.

SD: Rick has a blog. This is the introduction of his blog.

�LOVE THAT TOLERATES DECEPTION IS NOT LOVE AT ALL! I am Called by Jesus Christ to share the Real Jesus with the Mormon people. And to simply share Jesus with all who will talk. "If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined; their foundation must be very weak." -- (Journal of Discourses 14:216-217)�

SD: Rick has a habit of deleting posts that have made valid points and so hopefully he won't mind coming here to continue discussions. This is a clip from a reply post on his blog.

SD: Rick, if you explained, I never did see it.
You swore earlier that God spoke to you, literally calling you to preach against Mormons. You literally heard his voice, just as Paul and all the prophets of the Bible did (because this is how one IS CALLED of God to do a work for Him).

Before you said, �Yes, he spoke to me.� I had made it very clear that I was not talking about hypothetical, but literal. I was not talking about �through scripture� you felt this was the right thing to do....(because this taking of scripture and applying it in your own desired way is the type of �calling� would be NO DIFFERENT than that of the Preists and Jews who felt the scriptures justified their judgment and criticism of Jesus Christ.) Those anti�s really really felt that the scriptures justified them and that they were doing the REAL God a favor by convincing people NOT to follow Jesus whom they believed was a false religionist.

So, after reading SB�s comments,
SB: �Why did God only call you to witness to them, When there are a lot of lost soul's out there, why not the catholics ? etc. why would he just single out Mormon's? i understand you want to direct them in the right way, but what about the other's ?�

I want to hear exactly how the real Jesus literally called you and asked you to do what you do.
You don�t need to quote scripture because I know the Bible.
Just testify how you heard Him, what He said to you with his literal voice, and where you were at the time.
Rick, you have a perfect opportunity to �testify� to us of your calling. Explain it to us so that we can believe you were called of God.

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[> more of ricks blog -- Sheedog, 07:52:26 08/09/06 Wed

Here is some of the conversation which I believe was deleted by rick.

rick:over view of things said by sheepdog
Ok guys, this is not really a new topic on mormonism. I just want to give an over view of things I said or things that were said, then touch on some issues.
First off, I understand that their are a lot of topics to read over, If you are going to start posting here on a regular basis, Might I suggest reading over every topic, not the reply's so much.
People seem to think I forgot to say something or I missed something, when in fact it was covered, you simply did not read over everything. If you don't like my blog, you don't need to stay here and read stuff.
To set the record straight, I don't hate the LDS people, I do believe you are in a false religion that will take you to hell after you die. I believe my belief is correct, then while it is hard for you to read me saying I see problems with your beliefs, It is in fact a very loving thing for me to do, expose error. Because if I am correct and your wrong, not only will you go to hell, but you also will bring people with you by the converts you made.
But if your correct and my beliefs is wrong, then we both most likely will meet in the second heaven someday.

Sheepdog: If you are wrong in your guess you are as loving as all other false accusers.
If you are right, any good person can find that out through the power of the Holy Ghost who testifies of truth.
I know you are wrong, I do not �believe� you are.
Anti Mormons will be in the same place as Anti Christs. Just like them, you know not what you do, even with scripture before you. Jesus asked that the Father might forgive them, and that day of forgiveness may come, But there will be some hell to pay for fighting against His anointed. Don�t think you are going to waltz into the 2nd kingdom, you have no idea of our doctrine.
Would you like to know what happens to those who activly fight against the Chruch of God? Not joining and not believing is one thing, actively fighting against is quite another.
First off when you die, you will be met by light and the love of Christ will be around you. You will stand at the bar of God to receive your first judgment.
You will be deemed an enemy of God and His prophets because you actively fought against them and caused many to reject the truth. You will claim that you were doing a good work and casting out devils by preaching against JSmith and the Mormons. He will call your work �iniquity� because He never knew you. He never spoke to you about Smith. [you have claimed that He literally spoke to you with His literal voice, just like He did with Paul, and called you to this work, we both know that this is not true, don�t we?]
God may show you verses in the Bible (that you claimed to follow) which warned you not to set yourself up as a judge. He may tell you that now is the time for that same judgment you judged with to be turned on you. You called JSmith a false prophet, but you are actually the false prophet pretending to be sent of God. You judged Mormonism to be the corrupted faith, but it was your own that was.
Remember it is our own words which will stand as a witness against us.
After the truth is then revealed and there is no escaping it, you will be separated from God and the love of Christ and you will be placed in Spirit Prison with the rest of the Anti Christs who hated and killed the prophets of their day. You will not want to be in His presence after you realize what you have done to the One you claimed to have loved. The Jews would not have done what they did to their Messiah, had they known. It�s a bitter, bitter cup Rick. This is just an area you ought not speak out on unless you have been blessed with an actual witness from God about.
I�m talking a vision or an angel or something like that. It�s a dangerous place to make a bet with your soul unless you have seen for yourself by the power of God.
There are many places where you could make a good difference in the world and it could never be counted as evil against you....Like fighting against pornography or something else that is obviously evil.
The angry Jews firmly believed that scripture justified their beliefs and their rejection of Christ. They firmly believed they were going to heaven and Christ was going to hell. They believed they were putting a blasphemer to death and that God would appreciate their act of �love� on His behalf.They were wrong, despite their belief in God, the Messiah, and the scriptures.
No doubt they had a lot of truth concerning God because of the scriptures, but that alone does not a true church make. No doubt there were really good God fearing people that belonged along side the persecutors. Christ sent prophets to them to correct their misinterpretations and false practices, they rejected the Living God and His chosen, anointed, authorized servants in favor of the dead ones. They decorate seplechures of dead prophets, fooling themselves that they would have believed them had they lived in their day. But, they would have hated them just the same.
Read D&C 45 (esp. verse 50) There are also many similar verses in the Bible.

rick: Now I want to quote Sheepdog here,
�I am just trying to keep rick honest. He says a lot of things about my faith that are way off. He misrepresents scripture because he takes it out of context so that he can apply his own meanings.�
rick: By saying, I am trying to keep rick honest, implies I have been both dishonest and lying. If this is the case, please provide exactly where and how this happened, Other wise, if it is more a matter of we simply disagree, please state that you disagree with something I said. Otherwise you are the one lying and being dishonest.

SD:Well, I�ll go ahead and re list the dishonesty.
1) God did not call you to preach against Mormonism. You set yourself in that possition. Your possition is the same as Paul before Christ visited him. Paul believed with all his heart that Jesus was a corruptor of religion. He believed this because he was a religious man and he felt that Jesus was a corruptor of true religion. He believed he was doing a favor for God by persecuting the saints.
Rick said:
�Rick: Yes I heard God Speak to me.�
SD: Okay rick, I understand you, you swear God spoke to you. Just like He did to Paul. Totally literal.
That�s a very very bold claim. I would hope that a person would never tell a lie about something as weighty as this. I know I wouldn�t.
I would like to hear you tell when it happened, what it felt like, sounded like and exactly the words He spoke to you about us Mormons.
I didn�t ever get a reply on this.
2) Rick said:
�my main point of this whole question was JS ran away by trying to jump out the window. JS is said to be a maryter and laid his life as a testominy.�
Truth is in the most exagerated stretch of the imagination, no one in their right mind could rightfully accuse JSmith of �running away� from his attackers.
You say we disagree, I say it�s enough of an exageration to be a lie.
You say you have been �fair� simply because you post enough context.
No. JSmith did not run away when he had the chance. He did not shoot the gun to escape when he had the chance. 2 steps towards a window, in which window there was no escape, is not running away. It�s a ludicris exageration of what really happened.

3) This misrepresentation you did apologize for. Yet there is no correction on your article.
Rick said:
�Notice Jesus showed His power, They all fell backwards. Yet despite His power He never ran away or abused his power.�

It is written that Jesus did run and hide from his enemies a few times.

4) This is a lie about what I would disagree about.
Rick said:
�you will disagree, but God AKA Jesus, stated he lays down His life no man can take it from him. It was not his time, he knew it was coming and when.�

The truth is, I do agree with this. I know that no one was able to take His life before He willingly gave it. I believe that His prophets, including JSmith, have work to do and a testimony of Him to bare and the wicked are not allowed to take their lives until He allows it. The prophet/apostle/servant doesn�t always know the exact minute.
JSmith knew that the time was near and he knew that by turning himself in, he would die.
5) Rick said:
�The problem here is this, The Bible does not teach any place to pray to see if these things are true, Neither does the BoM, they both teach to SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES.�
SD: We believe in searching the scriptures and while searching them, we pray for the Spirit of God to bless us with understanding of them.
The Spirit of God is what teaches us truth. The Spirit reveals the truth of scripture to us. The Spirit of God reveals the divinity of Jesus Christ to us. The Spirit of God reveals the reality of the truth of the Book of Mormon. The Spirit reveals to us who JSmith was to God. Through prayer, meditation, and scripture study, and keeping the commandments, we are worthy to have the Spirit of God reveal the truth of all things to us.
The Bible does indeed teach us to pray for truth, knowledge, and companionship of the Holy Ghost who is the revealer of truth. No scripture ever would have been written had it not been for the Spirit of God revealing truth to men. Do we follow the example of all those in scripture who found God?
Does God still reveal His will to men or not? I know for a fact that He does.
Here are your verses:
All of JN. 14. (those that believe will keep commandments, those who keep the commandments will be given the Comforter, Jesus asks His Father to send the Comforter to men to testify of Him. World will not see Him anymore, but His children will because He lives.)
JN. 14:21 (keep commandments, He will manifest Himself unto you)
JN. 14:26 (Comforter shall teach you all things)
JN. 15:26 (Spirit of Truth shall testify of Me)
JN. 16 (people hate you because the do not know the Father. Never seen or heard from Him for themselves. Comforter shall guide you into all truth. Holy Ghost glorifies Me and what He knows, He will show you.)
Heb. 10:15 (Holy Ghost is also a witness)
1Pet. 1:12 (preached w/ HG)
JN. 4:6, 5:6 (Spirit beareth witness)
1Cor. 2:11 (Spirit searcheth truth, things of God knoweth no man BUT by the Spirit of God)
1Cor 2:14
1Cor.12:3 (No man can say Jesus is the Christ, but by the HG)
Rom.8:27 (Spirit maketh intersession for the Saints)
LK. 11:13 (Father gives the HG to them that ask)
LK. 12:12 (HG shall teach you)
ACT:1:2 (HG gave commandment)
2Pet 1:21
Neh. 9:20 (Thou gavest thy Spirit to instruct them)
PSA. 79
Matt 5:42 (ask and it shall be given ((truth))
Matt 7:7
Matt 16
Matt 21:20 (ask in prayer ye shall be given)
Matt 24:31 (His angels gather His elect...((not false angels))
JAM 1:5-13 (If any lack wisdom, let him ask of God who giveth to all men liberally...)
JN. 10:4 (sheep follow Him and know His voice)

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[> [> continued -- Sheepdog, 07:54:47 08/09/06 Wed

6) Okay now, you said neither does the Book of Mormon. This is a lie.

2Nephi 32:8
"For if ye would hearken unto the Spirit which teacheth a man to pray ye would know that ye must pray; for the evil spirit teacheth not a man to pray, but teacheth him that he must not pray.
But behold, I say unto you that ye must pray always, and not faint; that ye must not perform any thing unto the Lord save in the first place ye shall pray unto the Father in the name of Christ, that he will consecrate thy perfomance unto thee, that thy performance may be for the welfare of thy soul."
Enos 1
�my soul hungered...I cried unto Him in mighty prayer...for my own soul�
3 Nephi 8:47
�Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye must watch and pray always, lest ye be tempted by the devil, and ye are led away captive by him.��

�Moroni 10:3-8
3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how amerciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and bponder it in your chearts.
��4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would aask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a csincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will fmanifest the gtruth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
��5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may aknow the truth of all things.
��6 And whatsoever thing is good is just and true; wherefore, nothing that is good denieth the Christ, but acknowledgeth that he is.
��7 And ye may aknow that he is, by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore I would exhort you that ye deny not the power of God; for he worketh by power, baccording to the faith of the children of men, the same today and tomorrow, and forever.
��8 And again, I exhort you, my brethren, that ye deny not the agifts of God, for they are many; and they come from the same God. And there are different ways that these gifts are administered; but it is the same God who worketh all in all; and they are given by the manifestations of the Spirit of God unto men, to profit them.
Alma 5: 46 (Alma has fasted and prayed many days to know these things.)
Moroni 8:7
�For immediately after I had learned these things of you I inquired of the Lord concerning the matter. And the word of the Lord came to me by the power of the Holy Ghost, saying:�
Alma 26: 22 (to know mysteries of God, men must pray without ceasing.)
Mormon 9 (all of it)
Moroni 7 (all of it)

D&C 4: 7 (D&C 6: 5; D&C 8: 1; D&C 11: 5; D&C 12: 5; D&C 14: 5; D&C 29: 6; D&C 42: 3, 61; D&C 49: 26; D&C 66: 9; D&C 75: 27; D&C 88: 63; D&C 101: 27; D&C 103: 35)
ask and ye shall receive.
D&C 8: 9 ask and receive knowledge.

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[> [> Re: more of ricks blog -- Sheepdog, 08:01:22 08/09/06 Wed

Sorry, this may not be the one that was deleted.
Anyway, hopefully this will be a place where rick will not mind coming to make his points.

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