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Date Posted: 04:33:22 04/09/02 Tue
Author: Earl Allison
Subject: Re: Ben and Warren are both humans
In reply to: Vickie 's message, "Ben and Warren are both humans" on 15:15:36 04/08/02 Mon

Vickie wrote;

[Ben and Warren are both humans]

“and, IMHO, Ben had committed fewer evil or questionable acts.

I believe that we often soft-pedal exactly what Giles did at the end of The Gift. He killed a human being, arguably murdered him (not exactly the same thing), in order to avoid a greater evil. He took on himself the guilt of judging another human being as too dangerous to live and executing him.

I believe Giles knew exactly what he was doing. That's why he put his glasses on before smothering Ben. He forced himself to look directly at his actions.

IMHO, Giles has continued to live with the guilt of that action, not that we've seen anything of it. Certainly, his sorrow and guilt over Buffy's death (not that the guilt was deserved, but he did experience it after Prophecy Girl) overshadowed any feelings he would have had about Ben's death.

If the spoilers are true, Willow is setting out with a self-righteous attitude, that it's right to torture and kill Warren. Giles knew what he was doing was wrong, but was certain that letting Ben live would be more wrong. There's an important difference in the motivation.

Willow's seems to be "I hurt, I'm going to make you hurt." Giles' seemed to be "If I let you live, more people are going to be hurt, including many that I care about." “


First, I would take issue with your conclusions on Ben.

He was the one who summoned the demon that fed off the insane, correct? And all he had to say about it was that he was “cleaning up Glory’s messes.” The demon KILLED people, people that couldn’t defend themselves at all, being strapped to hospital beds – and Ben not only condoned it, but summoned the creature to DO it!

Ben also concluded that his life was worth more than Dawn’s, indeed, worth more than pretty much all the lives on Earth (we know that the portals opening would have meant death and destruction on a massive level), when he willingly threw in with Glory. That’s a pretty big thing.

Maybe Ben committed FEWER evil acts, but they were actually grander in scale and resulted (or would have resulted) in far more deaths.

Secondly, Warren is just as dangerous, and SHOULDN’T be permitted to live.

I’ve already said it, but I still believe it, Willow’s actions are totally understandable and justifiable, illegal though they may be.

Torturing might be a bit severe, but the loss of a loved one to violent crime is equally severe in its pain.

And who’s to say that Warren won’t hurt more people? From the spolier we know that Buffy would have likely died had Willow not intervened? Doesn’t that smack of the same “including people I care about” rationale you used for Giles? True, it’s most likely not foremost in Willow’s mind, but I do think it’s enough of a rationale that she can be justified more than you imply.

Take it and run.

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