Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro?? -- North Carolina Mixed Martial Arts

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Subject: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
James Speight
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Date Posted: 03:24:56 10/21/10 Thu

I know in NC you have to have at least 5 fights to turn pro. but dont that mean you should?

I have heard people turning pro after a 0-5 record, Kinna feel that they are turning pro just to say they are a "PRO-fighter"

What you think??

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Replies:

[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
SES
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Date Posted: 15:56:57 10/21/10 Thu

To meet your question head on ---No

However, if he lost 3 fights by Spit Dec or Majority Dec I would say yes. If he was 5-0 and fought tomato cans...I would say no.

I remember when MMA became legal here....all the guys who had already being fighting period....made a good observation
that our circuit was more favorable to an ammy with sponsorship than it was for pro's because of all the conditions that the promoters had to meet.

If you go pro here expect to gain most of your experience in other states. And don't expect to many favors, they will
bring you in as the opponent to promote their studs.

my 2 cent....lata

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[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
James Speight
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Date Posted: 11:11:56 10/26/10 Tue

I guess some coaches and managers just want to get their fighters to the pros so they can make some money. but if your fighter isnt prepared for the pros that money will not last very long.

James Speight

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[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
Neal Weaver
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Date Posted: 14:53:07 11/01/10 Mon

I think, it really depends on a fighter. If a guy had a bad start, went 0-3, lost to some dumb stuff, was at a bad gym preparing, took on some of the studs....and then went 2-0 after spending 2-3 years in a gym with good training/training partners and beat a couple guys who were decent, I think yes.

However, my answer has alot more to do with the way amatuer MMA is run, than whether a guy needs to hurry to be a pro. To be honest, I wont ever have one of my fighters have many more than 5 amatuer fights before he turns pro. But, he will have alot of high quality gym time, which is a hell of alot more important than number of fights.

I would agree, alot of the folks turning pro, with very shaky skills has made me consider trying to fight again, hell I even, on paper, look like a good fight for one of these guys who just turned pro (one pro fight recorded, loss to Dennis Reed in '99) so I could probably get a few to line up to fight me.

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[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
Neal Weaver
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Date Posted: 15:06:28 11/01/10 Mon

To be honest, As to folks wanting to get their fighters pro fast, or fighters who turn pro with weak skill sets.........this has alot more to do with ignorance and incompetence than greed IMO.

There are A TON of folks teaching and cornering who dont have a good base of training themselves, dont have a quality program, and basically when their fighters win, it has more to do with the simple fact SO MANY folks are fighting now a days its pretty easy to get a guy who also sucks to fight against.

So any team, no matter how bad can get a couple wins together, and can also get confused into thinking a bit of physical ability and lucky match making is a road to making money fighting. The poor manner Amatuer MMA is run, sort of makes alot of folks to also rush to fight as a professional, but that is another topic.

I have had several guys who have had fights before (but train other places or come from out of state) drop in to train and are surprised that they are getting taken apart, and I run a small program (most people I ever had was 50, and that included kids) so its not like I have a stable of super human athletes I am teaching guard smash and pass tech to. I also, dont really do anything any different than any of the other training centers to who have solid credentials. So some of the folks who come in who have had fights, and even more surprisingly, wins, really shock me as to their dearth of technical knowledge/practical ability.

I feel the issue is tied far more to incompetent training/hard headed fighters who dont listen (I was this guy for a long time when I started, so I understand) than anything to do with outright greed.

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[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
James Speight
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Date Posted: 00:15:20 11/03/10 Wed

"incompetent training" yes that is more like it.

James Speight

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[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
Ses
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Date Posted: 13:41:50 11/06/10 Sat

Neal wrote:

"But, he will have alot of high quality gym time, which is a hell of alot more important than number of fights. "

I think this is one of the most neglected aspects of pro fighting that most pro's don't understand. So many fighters only show up to the gym 6 weeks or less before an event. They tend to lose that attitude of just being in the gym with or without an event coming up. Find a fighter with work ethic (pro or ammy) and you will do wonders. (another topic all together but it's worth touching on...)

SES

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[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
Neal Weaver
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Date Posted: 20:19:16 11/06/10 Sat

Yeah, high quality gym time, when NOT preparing for a fight is probably the make or break factor for alot of fighters-to-be.

Skills get developed, tested, learned during times when you are not preparing for a fight. Fight prep isnt for learning new skills, its for getting the ones you do have as polished as possible.

I have seen a fellow fight a few times. I wont say his name, but he is 0-8 as an amatuer. I want to give the guy Kudos for his persistance, but I have seen a couple of his fights, and Was standing near him as he carried on a conversation about a fight in a cage as I listened.

The kid, has no clue about what he is doing, and I worry he is going to get hurt. I also think there are a hundred like him in NC right now. Worse, he seems to really think he does know what he is doing. I suspect when he gets that elusive first "W" he will turn pro.

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[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
Ses
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Date Posted: 13:44:41 11/08/10 Mon

At what point do we blame poor training programs vs poor trainers vs poor performance and head strong fighters in regards to Development and Victory to turning pro too soon.

Training Programs --- There are a ton of good teachers who
understand how to teach but not what is important or relevant to gaining a win inside the cage.

Poor Trainers --- Have access to great resources but produce poor athletes. Have good intentions even good technique themselves but cannot transfer this quality.
(I've heard it said that "Gaining your black belt means that
you have been taught what to do, but it doesn't mean that you know how to teach others what to do."

Performance --- Actions taken during training all the way up to the ending of the fight. Choices made under fire.

Head Strong fighters --- Huge ego's / Legends in their own minds.

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[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
Neal Weaver
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Date Posted: 14:09:17 11/08/10 Mon

To be honest, poor training is usually the reason flat out. So many guys training people who dont know wtf they are doing right now, its damn near epidemic.

When I am at a fight, and I have to wrap 4 sets of hands that do not belong to my fighters......something is wrong.

However, victory alone is a poor barometer of a fighter's quality of training. I go more by what the guy actually looks like in a fight(as in, does he look like he has solid fundamentals) rather than just win/loss.

Lots of guys have good records, but if you look at their opposition, the win/loss ratio is 15-20%, and if its higher, its because alot of the guys only have 1 fight (a loss to our hero) balanced against guys with 2-3 records on the bad end of our heros 4-0/5-0/8-0/whatever record.

Of course a fighter himself can be the cause of a poor performance, but most decent trainers wont tolerate that sort of thing, I know I wont. Fighters take up more time, more effort, require me to be out of town on weekends, and really bring in zero business. So they can do it my way or do it somewhere else.

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[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
Ses
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Date Posted: 16:09:16 11/08/10 Mon

"When I am at a fight, and I have to wrap 4 sets of hands that do not belong to my fighters......something is wrong."

That's a great observation, I usually get one or two per show....at one show I did a rewrap without the coaches permission because he had tape direct to skin which was restricting the movement and blood flow......at this last show in Durham there was Team R.O.C. coach who asked me to look at his fighters hands but he had done an outstanding job with the wrap I simply told him that he didn't need my approval.

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[> Subject: Re: Should a 2-3 MMA fighter Turn Pro??

Author:
Neal Weaver
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Date Posted: 16:20:33 11/08/10 Mon

But having an experienced guy take a second look, makes me feel a whole lot better than sending your guy to someone else to do it, or worse, making a complete mess of a wrap. I mean......this is something you can practice on your own time, and hell, practically learn off the internet.

Worst case, ask a guy who knows what he is doing if you can watch. Not rocket science. The fact the guys who dont know how are not willing to admit they dont and need to learn, bothers me alot more than not knowing; but both are red flags IMO.

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