Re: The nature of original sin, Adam and Eve -- McKinsey's Biblical Errancy Forum Group

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Date Posted: 12:51:46 02/28/02 Thu
Author: Rev Gadfly
Subject: Re: The nature of original sin, Adam and Eve
In reply to: Josh Misener 's message, "Re: The nature of original sin, Adam and Eve" on 13:23:12 02/27/02 Wed

RevG

Hello Josh, I am quoting your points here and replying accoringly:

Josh
"Now I would like to ask a question about original sin (finally, right:)). I don't know what kind of jewish people you have talked to, but the jews in Bible times were very factually based people."

RevG
They were also an extremely supstitious people who amazing accomplished nothing compared to the Egyptians, Romans, Babylonians, Greeks; it is like they were a bunch of underachievers who compensated with fantasies of their importance. The Jews I spoke to were practicing Jews of the reform viewpoint.

Josh
"Now why would a group like this dedicate entire books and other portions of books to tracing their lineage to an allegory?

RevG
This is not uncommon in the ancient world; every people had fictional family trees, some were desended from gods, others from monsters. The Greeks had an extensive library of similar stories.

Josh
" It seems to me that these people wouldn't even
waste their time if the story of Adam and Eve was allegory."

RevG
Judaism teaches through allegory; it is a fundamental tool of the rabbi. Also, Adam means 'man' in Hebrew, and Eve means 'life'. The allegory is that man abandoned YHWH in pursuit of his own life. You are assuming that allegory is useless, in reality, it is the basis of many of the stories of many religions; only Christians and Muslims are simple minded about these stories, for both reject the rational for the irrational. Even the Church father Eusebius admits as much:

From his Praeparatio Evangelica 12.31, we get:

"'Truth is beautiful, stranger, and steadfast. But to persuade people of it is not easy.' ... "You would
find many things of this sort being used even in the Hebrew
scriptures, such as concerning God being jealous or
falling asleep or getting angry or being subject to some other human passions, for the benefit of those who need such an approach."

Although I hold Eusebius in contempt, he is proving that even as early as the 4th century, Christians recognized that allegory was at work in these stories.

Josh
"Also isn't it very possible that the types of Jews that you have talked to have different beliefs than those of the first generation of Jews,"

RevG
The Jews as a people developed over centuries, for more information, read "The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of its Sacred Texts."

Josh
"because it is also my understanding that Jewish
culture drastically changed due to the formation of different groups such as Pharisee's and Saduccee's."

RevG

Not really, Jewish culture was constantly in a state of flux, afterall, they were influenced by the peoples around them. I strongly suspect that the character of Samson was simply the Jewish version of Heracles: they suffer from the same vices. Today, there is no Jewish culture as such, but there are many Jewish cultures linked by a common religion; not unlike the idea of Christian culture.

peace

Rev Gadfly

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