Re: original sin, the Jewish ideal, follow up -- McKinsey's Biblical Errancy Forum Group

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Date Posted: 02:43:06 02/28/02 Thu
Author: Paul Angle
Subject: Re: original sin, the Jewish ideal, follow up
In reply to: Paul Angle 's message, "Re: The nature of original sin, the Jewish ideal" on 01:44:02 02/28/02 Thu

After pouring through numerous web searches looking for Jewish information, it seems one must buy a book, to get the real analysis in depth. From all I can gather on the subject of Adam and Eve:
-this story is indeed taken as allegory by the Jewish teaching. More accounts and versions of the garden story appear in the "Pseudepigrapha" a collection of historical biblical works that are considered to be fiction. Because of that stigma, these books were not included in the compilation of the Holy Bible by the Christain sources. This book is a written history of what happened in the days of Adam and Eve after they were cast out of the garden. The obvious notion its all a fiction comes to light in these texts, in one account Eve creates Adam from mud.

According to Jewish tradition, the sin of Adam and Eve was not sex. It was disobedience of God�s word. "Once they gained knowledge, Adam and Eve lost their innocence. Yet, they gained something else: the ability to achieve holiness." (Rabbi Michael Gold - 1992)

Adam's acceptance of Eve's offer is in Jewish teaching, what brought freewill and choice into the world, it did not instill the notion of the damnation of sin to every living human, it brought the notion of death, and mans choice of freewill. His ability to atone to God through his choice of righteous behavior. The Christian's magnified this view by creating the notion that the fall meant all had sinned since before birth and all were damned, that their only salvation was through Jesus. This is not how the Jews see it. A man is judged by his own actions and decisions, by his own sin and righteousness. Only God can forgive sin, only God gives salavation and atonement. The Christian's had to build the precept of Jesus by using the Jewish scriptures to support their claims, they used the Garden story but cut the Pseudepigrapha texts which it came from that showed it was an allegory teaching. Much in the same way the Christian writers ignored the specific Jewish prophecies and direct teachings concerning the messiah because they went against the Christian story of Jesus. Jesus did not meet the signs and prophecies of the Jewish messiah, not one. The notion that the messiah was a divine immortal, as god, or god, does not appear in Jewish teaching because this is a direct blasphemy to the Torah law. Judaism like Islam, is strickly and totally monotheistic there are no sons, or relatives of god, no other gods, no other like him, this is the teaching and thrust of both Judaism and Islam.

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: The nature of original sin, the Jewish ideal -- matthew Davidson, 20:33:48 09/08/02 Sun

I think you need to re-examine the passages in the Old testament concerning the perfect nature of Job and some others. It is true that Job was a highly moral and spiritual man, but to say that he never sinned is to assume a lot. I think you will find that words like perfect and upright and so on are A. archaic King James words and not literal and B. Not absolute even if they are the actual words they appear to be. By the letter of the Jewish law and ordinances, if a person offended even in one point, he/she was guilty of all. This means if I steal a penny, I am a murderer and an adulterer and a blasphemer because I have fallen short of the perfect and absolute holy nature of God. God is holy and perfect, therefore He can not allow even the smallest sin to enter heaven, that is why mankind needs a redeemer. The redeemer must be God because God says He will not share His glory with another and because only a perfect sinless being would be sufficient to "heal us by His stripes." Also remember, the Messiah will be someone who is the Everlasting Father, or God (in Isaiah), and the modern Jewish belief that the mesiah is somehow Israel is inplausable, since the Messiah is someone who Isaih says will be punnished for the sins of "my people", and Israel was Isaiah's people, so Israel is not the messiah.

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