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Friday, April 26, 5:57:58Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 12345678910 ]
Subject: Re: Just found out...now what??


Author:
Shellie
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Date Posted: 07/30/09 4:03pm
In reply to: Kristen 's message, "Just found out...now what??" on 07/27/09 6:42pm

Hi Kristen,

You've been on my mind and I have been wanting to reply to your last post, however, I'm busy at the moment. I just wanted to let you know that I'll be posting soon. I don't want you to think I've forgotten about you and everything you're dealing with at the moment!

Let me know how you're doing.

Shellie

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Replies:
[> Subject: Dear Kristen...


Author:
Shellie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/ 3/09 12:21pm

Hi Kristen,

I hope things are beginning to come together for you, but it wouldn’t surprise if things were becoming even more stressful for you as you try to figure out what to do. The early part of an unplanned pregnancy is the scariest part, for sure. I hope you don’t mind if I use YouTube videos to respond to you. I was looking for a song to share with you, since music has a way of speaking truth and going right to our heart. I’d never heard of this song before, but the words were exactly what I’d wanted to convey to you:



Stand through the pain—you won’t drown (so true! This situation seems hard, but if you hang on and face the pain, fear, and uncertainty head on, you’ll find that everything will work out.)

The fears whispering if she stands she’ll fall down (fear does make you feel like you can’t do it. Don’t listen to the fear whispering that you won’t make it—you will!)

I hope you stand your ground and face the fear, because not only will you not drown, you’ll feel a happiness you never knew could come out of this unwanted situation.

I accidentally came across the video I believe Pat was referring to, regarding the woman being transported from an abortion clinic moaning in pain. I was going to share the video with you, but as I went to retrieve it from my favorites, I discovered the video is no longer available. It was entitled Abortion Clinic Butano Drive Sacramento California. This clinic is 30 minutes from my house. The video showed a woman being transported on a gurney from the abortion clinic to the ambulance. While the nurse is giving the EMT directions to the hospital (don’t ask me why the EMT’s don’t know the way!) you can clearly hear the woman moaning and calling out in pain. My intention isn't to change your stance on abortion, but I do want share "our" side so that you may better understand where we're coming from. I want you to understand why Pat said the things she did. Pat's intention wasn't to hurt you, guilt you, or even scare you into choosing against abortion. She was speaking from her years of experience of witnessing the different choices women make. Pat has helped countless women who are suffering from an abortion. She truly cares about these women--before and after an abortion.

I can understand your belief that abortion is a safe procedure because there isn’t much being publicized to dispute that. It’s just those “crazy pro-lifers” out there saying it’s unsafe. The abortion clinics want you to feel it’s safe because they lose money when people start believing there are legitimate concerns for their physical safety.

In reality there are many risks. Here are a few (taken from a PRO-CHOICE website):

Risks

· Injury to the uterine lining or cervix.
· Infection. Bacteria can enter the uterus during the procedure and cause an infection. This is more likely if an untreated disease, such as a sexually transmitted disease (STD), is present before the procedure. Symptoms of fever, pain, and abdominal tenderness will usually start within 2 to 3 days of the procedure. Antibiotics given during or after the procedure reduce the risk of infection.
· Excessive bleeding.
Rare complications include:
· A hole in the wall of the uterus (uterine perforation, rare), which most commonly happens during cervical dilation. Bleeding is usually minimal, and no repair is necessary. If bleeding is a concern, a laparoscopy (a procedure that uses a lighted viewing instrument) can be used to see whether it has stopped.
· Constant, excessive bleeding.
· Tissue remaining in the uterus (retained products of conception), usually causing recurring cramping abdominal pain and bleeding within a week of the procedure. However, prolonged bleeding sometimes does not occur until several weeks later.
· Blood clots. If the uterus doesn't contract to pass all of the tissue, the cervical opening can become blocked, preventing blood from leaving the uterus. The uterus becomes enlarged and tender, often with abdominal pain, cramping, and nausea. A repeat vacuum aspiration and medicine to stop bleeding are used to treat retained products of conception or blood clots.
Having two or more D&C abortions could create enough scar tissue to affect your future ability to become pregnant (infertility), as well as your risk of pregnancy complications. Such complications include implantation of a fertilized egg outside of the uterus (ectopic pregnancy), miscarriage, or growth of the placenta over the cervix (placenta previa). 3


The site says having 2 or more abortions could create enough scar tissue to affect your future ability to become pregnant. But my sister only had 1 abortion and because of the scar tissue, she was never able to carry a baby to term (she got pregnant one other time, but miscarried). She regrets her abortion and would do anything to re-make that decision.

You can always tell the difference from a pro-life site and a pro-choice site as they explain the abortion procedure and its risks. The pro-life site may say something like:

As the sharp curette tool scraps the uterine wall, as it cuts up the baby, there is a risk of uterine perforation, as this is a “blind” surgical procedure.

Pro-choice:

The curette is used to gently scrape the lining of the uterus and remove the tissue in the uterus. There is a very small chance of perforating the uterus, but this is VERY rare.

Which description makes you feel better?


YouTube description of Suction and Curettage/Vacuum Aspiration




Woman dies from her abortion



Girl in Coma from ABORTION - March 2007




Actual transcripts of 911 calls from abortion clinics

Ambulance calls to Tiller’s abortion clinic


Botched abortion by Tiller


Chances are you’ve heard that George Tiller was gunned down while serving as an usher at his church recently. But I’m betting that before now you never heard of his patients that died at his hands. Yes, there is a cover up. This is why women believe abortion is safe. You don’t hear about the risks, and about the women who suffer complications.

Fetal Development

We have a clear understanding of the delvelopment of the baby. Some women have no idea of the delelopment process and aren't aware that their abortion is stopping a beating heart. But there are women who are clear on the development, and feel that abortion is killing. They may even be pro-life, but feel they have no choice but to abort. And then there are women who believe it's not a life until it takes its first breath outside the womb. I feel every woman considering an abortion should have the facts about fetal development so they can make a decision based on the facts--how they react to the facts is up to them.

Ultrasound 6-week fetal heartbeat-audio


Ultrasound fetal heartbeat-visual


True abortion stories

We've been talking to women for years who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy. We've seen the pattern of fear and uncertainty. And we've wittnessed the many women who stood up to these fears and were later thankful they carried their baby to term. We've tried our best to console those who are suffering the pain and regret of choosing abortion. We truly care about these women and want desperately to help other women avoid this pain.

Shannon's Story


Robin's abortion story


Lisa speaks about her abortion


Andrea speaks about her abortion


Angie speaks about her abortion


Dan and Julie Abortion Testimony


Kristen, I hope you can better understand our point of view, even if you don't agree with it. I certainly see your side! I may not believe abortion is a good choice, but I can see how fear of the unknown can cause women to turn to this very desperate act.

I hope my post hasn't caused you any further pain. You're in my prayers!

Hugs,

Shellie

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Terminated the pregnancy


Author:
Kristen
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Date Posted: 08/13/09 6:50pm

Hi Ladies -
I really, truly appreciate all the time and effort you have put into responding to my desperate email. I really had no idea what I was supposed to do.

I understand that you will all be disappointed to hear this, but I decided to terminate my pregnancy. I think that you could hear in my original email that I wasnt ready to have a child. I wasn't ready to change my life and dedicate it to someone other than myself. Call it shameful if you'd like, but I'd call it realistic.

I'd also like to call on you women to STOP posting the videos and messages that show women moaning in pain while going through an abortion. I myself chose a medication abortion and while it was far from the most pleasant experience of my life, I hardly needed an ambulance to transport me to the hospital while writhing in agony. It wasn't pleasant, but it was NOT life threatening either.

I know this isn't the story any of you wanted to hear, however I thought it was important to share. Choosing life isn't always the best option for every woman, and I want other women out there to know that its OK to choose abortion. There are people out there to help you through it and not judge you.

Kristen

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Terminated the pregnancy


Author:
Shellie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/14/09 12:28pm

Hello Kristen,

I’m so sorry for you. My heart is heavy knowing that at some point you will most likely experience the grief that accompanies abortion.

I had a hard time approving your message, for a few reasons. First of all, I don’t want to take part in sending out the wrong information to another women who is considering aborting. Maybe she would see your post and feel better about aborting because a post-abortive woman says her experience was safe and without emotional pain. I don’t want women to mistakenly believe abortion is easy/safe/empowering. But the truth is: there ARE complications associated with abortion. The video with a woman moaning in pain after her abortion is a REAL woman in pain after an abortion. She was REALLY being transported from an abortion clinic to the hospital. Even if the complication rate was extremely lower than it is…lets say 1 in a million, I still think every woman considering an abortion should have the information that there is a 1 in a million chance that there could be a complication. Don’t you think they should have that information?

There is risk involved in EVERY surgical procedure. Even the common Tonsillectomy has a risk of DEATH. It’s a low risk; 1 in 15,000 die after a Tonsillectomy. But it’s still a risk! The problem with abortion is that the risks are kept quite, with only pro-lifers being willing to tell the truth, making it look like “scare tactics”. Three days before you first posted, I had undergone a D&C and Hysteroscopy to remove a mass and have it biopsied. It was VERY hard for me to go through with the surgery knowing the risks associated with it. Even though I was not terminating a pregnancy, I was still undergoing a surgical procedure that could cause uterine perforation, and other complications like uterine scaring. And since I do want another child, I worry about the risks associated with a future pregnancy after a D&C. I went ahead with the surgery, knowing the risks, because having Cancer would be even more risky! But the fact is THERE ARE RISKS WITH A D&C and every woman should know about them. There are also risks associated with a medical abortion (taken from a pro-choice site):
http://www.michigan.gov/mdch/0,1607,7-132-2940_4909_6437_19077-46287--,00.html

It is normal for some women to actually feel pure relief following their abortion. They can stop worrying about the changes their life would have undergone, and they can feel as though everything has gone back to how it was before they became pregnant. But most often reality does hit them at some point. I’ve counseled with so many post-abortive women and they’d shared their experience of initial relief that later causes guilt for feeling relieved! Perhaps you’ll be one of the few who remains indifferent regarding your decision to abort, but I want women to know that most women do experience emotional pain over their decision to end a pregnancy. They all have different points at which the pain begins. For some it’s the moment the abortion is taking place, and for others it not until later when something triggers a memory, or they realize their child would be a certain age had they not aborted. Some women begin to feel the pain during a future pregnancy, like during an ultrasound when they see their baby’s heart fluttering on the screen and realize they aborted a child at that stage. Women who abort are significantly more likely to become addicted to alcohol/drugs, and are more likely to commit suicide. It goes against a women’s instinct to kill her child. A woman just naturally wants to protect her child. When she goes against this instinct, it will most likely cause her some emotional distress at some point. This is a fact.

Another reason I didn’t want to approve your message is because I knew I’d then have to refute what you said in your message. And I did not want to cause you pain. This forum is sometimes where women who are hurting from an abortion come for comfort and support. And I don’t want you to feel like you wouldn’t receive that same support from us. It’s hard for me to dispute your post so others won’t be misled, without saying something that could upset you. If I have hurt you in any way, I’m very sorry.

Take care,

Shellie

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[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Terminated the pregnancy


Author:
Kristen
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Date Posted: 08/14/09 12:57pm

Hi Shellie -

Thanks for responding to the post. I would just like to clear some things up regarding what I wrote yesterday. First I would like to thank you for approving the post in the first place. I know my views are not shared by most people on this board and I applaud you for allowing them to be shared anyway.

Second, I really want to be clear that I am absolutely not saying abortion is empowering and lacking in any physical or emotional pain. My experience was far from empowering and "pain-free." My intent in posting about my decision was to let other women who may come onto this board know that there is someone out there to talk to should they choose termination, and that termination may not necessarily be wrong in every case. Of course I have dealt with the entire spectrum of emotion from regret to anger to relief. For me though, this was still the right decision to make. I am still spending much of my days coming to terms with my decision, which I would have done even if I had chosen to carry out the pregnancy. Instead of dealing with the emotional pain of terminating a pregnancy, I would be dealing with the emotional pain of carrying a child I was in no way ready to have. I'm not sure I'm making sense, but I wanted to be very clear that I am absolutely NOT indifferent to the situation I'm in, and my pain goes far beyond just what I physically experienced.

I very much appreciate all the support your messages have contained, although we stand on opposite sides of the fence. I hope I have not shown disrespect in sharing my views here. I think I'm just asking for everyone to hesitate before jumping to conclusions about each poster's situation and mental state. Some of us make this decision from a very well-informed place, and have the emotional capacity to deal with grief in a healthy way. That's all I'm asking. Before jumping in with the facts and statistics and drug abuse, alcohol addiction and suicide rates, maybe try listening to the words of each poster first. A decision to terminate may not always be the decision that brings doom to everyone.

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Terminated the pregnancy


Author:
Pat
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Date Posted: 08/14/09 1:39pm

Hi, Kristen,

Thank you for writing back twice. I'd like to add a few thoughts of my own.

I can't speak for the moderators here, but I'll tell you how I handle moderation elsewhere. I want to make sure that nobody gives medical advice. None of us is a doctor. It's often easy for a woman who has your perspective to say something that could be construed that way, and anybody involved in the loop of conveying that information to a woman could get into trouble, especially if the woman suffers damage.

Abortion is unique in the sense that it is rare for there to be a medical reason for it, so all of the risks have no counterbalancing risks at all. Doctors are supposed to first do no harm, and that means, among other things, weighing the possible risks of acting against the possible risks of not acting. In the case of abortion, since there is no medical risk of not acting in most cases, giving a woman an abortion is not a sound medical decision.

I agree that anybody who has done lots of research is in a position to be more satisfied with the ultimate decision, no matter what it is. But I have seen that complications are no respecter of persons, and even a woman who is very sure of her decision could get badly hurt. In particular pill abortions are killing a lot of women in India (they either bleed to death, or they may get toxic shock syndrome, which kills within hours). And that's not the only place this is happening. I know one abortionist who is still recommending that pills be used vaginally, which is what causes toxic shock syndrome. That abortionist shrugs off any possibilities of serious damage, but recommending they be used vaginally is no longer standard practice in the US because of the dangers, and it appalls me that some abortionists will still make these kinds of recommendations. How can we know that a woman will be in safe hands, when we know there are so many back alley types still operating? I don't know. I do know from extensive research that abortion damages the reproductive system of over 1/3 of the women who get abortions, and I also have worked with women who were certain of their decision, who then became suicidal. In addition, a woman has a heightened risk of suicide six times what it would be if she carried. And drug abuse and alcohol abuse are common. So are homicide and fatal car accident. Abortion also causes the incidence of cerebral palsy in future children to double, and it also causes epilepsy and autism. Abortion makes childbirth much more risky in the future, and increases the chance of death, but these are attributed to the birth, and not to the abortion, even though without the abortion, this wouldn't happen. And abortion also causes breast cancer. So many of my close friends who have had abortions have had serious problems. There isn't a single exception. The fact that most people think abortion is relatively safe is the result of propaganda, not facts. Abortion is really very dangerous, and a lot of women never talk about the problems they have suffered. I'm sorry, but I have no choice but to try to warn women, and I do my best to warn them as gently as I can. Just before you came, I had seen that video of the woman being transported to the hospital, and it really upset me. Of course I know this happens all the time, but it's different to be an eyewitness, and I hope you understand why I felt the need to warn you. I try to listen to MY heart, and my heart said to warn you. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm also in the dark because I don't know you, and I can't watch how you are reacting to what I say. For any hurt I have caused you, I apologize.

I try to warn women because I love you. I don't want to see anyone get hurt. I hear what you are saying when you say that it would also be troublesome for you to have a child. I'm sorry you feel this way, but please know there is support for women who choose to carry. We have a lot of freedom of speech here, and too many of us know what the risks are, and for us to keep silent would be to be complicit in the fraud that is being promoted by the abortion support movement and the media. We have to speak up. Perhaps it makes people uncomfortable, but we really can't conceal what we know. That would be wrong. You also will be able to post here, to other women, and I am sure the moderator will approve your message provided it doesn't endanger the other woman in any way. And yes, you are not the only woman who posts here who believes abortion should be legal.

I have worked with far too many women who were OK with their abortion to begin with, until they got blindsided. I call it blindsiding when something triggers a woman to cause all the feelings deep inside to come to the surface where she is aware of them, and often, a woman is not equipped to deal with it. I want to warn you as well. Here is a web site which is run by a woman who is in favor of legal abortion. www.afterabortion.com. I know this woman and she is a good person. She is trying to deal with women who have suffered emotional repercussions, and she gets a lot of flak for doing this. She specifically warns people not to say anything that might be triggering. This is her term for what I have just described. It can be anything: a movie, a conversation, seeing a baby in public, seeing a picture in a medical textbook, or a thoughtless comment. I try very hard not to make thoughtless comments, but we're all human.

Just know that we WILL be here to support you any time you need it.

And I hope this message doesn't hurt you in any way. If it does, it was unintended.

Hugs,
Pat

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[> [> [> Subject: Re: Terminated the pregnancy


Author:
Heather
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08/14/09 3:32pm

Wow, what a gracious exchange of views. It's so great to see that level of respect.

Kristen, I wish the best for you. You are a woman made in the image of God, and are of great value. I understand where the other women are coming from in posting their own thoughts. I'm glad Shelly posted your decision post because it would have been unnecessary censorship not to, and I also think it's awesome that Pat and others are able to share their views on human life and abortion. It's a truth and side that needs to be heard.

For every woman who feels abortion was the right choice for her to make, there are as many who are devastated by it, and wish they had been more informed and less pressured. Many of these women have posted on here, sharing the grief and trauma of a regretted choice years later. As women, it is truly heartbreaking. I think it does a service to women to hear the whole story so they can make a truly informed choice.

Of course what it always ends at is whether or not one regards the fetus as a real human life, or something lesser that is not protected by human rights. Most women here are convinced of the sanctity of human life as a continuum from conception to death, and so they post their thoughts accordingly.

I respect you equally and am genuinely sorry for the trial you have had these past weeks, and the end result. May the weeks ahead be filled with rest, clarity, and abundant grace.

Hopefully they gave you good after care instructions at the abortion clinic - but be sure to eat a lot high iron foods and maybe even take some supplements. Lots of rest.....

Take Care,

Heather

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