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Subject: Judgment on Nations


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 21:34:26 08/19/09 Wed

Jeremiah 18:7-10 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. 9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; 10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

This passage is as good a place to start as any. From the passage we can see that God judges nations and the judgment is according to their works and attitude toward Him (obey not my voice, vs. 10).

Literally hundreds of nations have come and gone since man was driven from the garden and the reason for the demise of those nations has been their attitude toward the laws of God and God Himself.

Along with attitude and works is also thrown into the mix the treatment of God's people. God told Abraham in Genesis 12:1-3 "---Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: 3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

This was first proven to be true with the battle with the kings in Genesis 13. The kings of Shinar, Ellasar, Elam and the "king of nations" came against the 5 cities of the plain. One of which Lot and his family lived in. Had the four kings not messed with Abram's nephew and his family Abram would not have pursued and through God destroyed the armies of the 4 kings with probably the 4 kings. Judgment fell because of actions against someone God had blessed.
Assyria, Babyon, Persia etc. were all judged by how they treated the chosen people. Even when God placed His people in captivity the captor was judged by how he treated God's people and the things of God. (Dan. 1st 5 chapters)

The first mention of nations in the Bible is found in Genesis 10. Here you will see that it was God who actually set up the boundaries of the first nations. In the Book of Acts we read: Acts 17:24-31 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; 25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; 27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: 28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

The first nations then were set according to their families and each family was reckoned to descend from either Shem, Ham or Japheth. Acts tells us the divisions were for the purpose of finding God. (The divisions possibly were made at the tower of Babel with the confusion of tongues but that is just speculation on my part.) The passage in acts deals with nations of people and we are told that God tolerated ignorance for a while but now commands these nations of people to repent. Why? Verse 31: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness--- and of course the world is made up of nations of people. Every person on this earth is the subject of a government of a nation or kingdom and the terms can be used interchangeably.

The judgment and subsequent punishment of God on a nation can be in various ways. If you look at Egypt in the days of Moses you will see famine, pestilence, powerful storms and miraculous occurences and death brought against Egypt. Egypt was destroyed without an invading army but it was destroyed by the hand of God. All because Pharaoh would not listen and obey God. Essentially the Roman Empire was not destroyed by armies but by the cancerous decay of immorality and licentiousness on the part of the rulers and people.

The Book of Romans gives God's perspective on the downward spiral of both nations and individuals:

Romans 1:18-32 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (turning from God with knowledge of who God is and what God demands: this is the first step downward) 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (turning to other gods of their own making: an idol can be anything put before God) 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:(God will now turn His back on that country or individual) 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;(God turns them over to a reprobate mind and they are then incapable of right choices) 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (the final state of lawlessness and immorality which brings the destruction)

Notice the references to homosexuality and lesbianism in the downward spiral. God's judgment will always fall on those given over to this abomination. America is in grave danger here.

Many nations have fallen by invading armies that God has purposely sent to destroy that nation. Israel itself falls under this category with the invasion of Shalmaneser king of Assyria. He conquered the 10 northern tribes of Israel and carried them off to Assyria. A few years later the two remaining tribes of Judah and Benjamin went into captivity to the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar. For seventy years the remaining tribes of Judah and Benjamin were in captivity to, first Babylon, and then Media/Persia. There judgment came because they rebelled against God and His law and would not walk righteously as the 10 northern tribes. The demise can be traced to Solomon and his introduction of heathen temples to idol gods in order to satisfy the desires of his idol worshipping wives.

1 Kings 11:1-14 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; 2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love. 3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart. 4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father. 5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. 6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. 7 Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon. 8 And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods. 9 And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, 10 And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. 11 Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. 12 Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son. 13 Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; but will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen. 14 And the LORD stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king's seed in Edom.

The Bible tells us that to whom much is given much is required (Luke 12:48) this is true with nations and individuals. Israel had been given much and had returned little. Her judgment fell and the die was cast but it would be several more years until her judgment would be complete and executed.

Ezekiel 14:13-20 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it: 14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD. 15 If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts: 16 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate. 17 Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it: 18 Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves. 19 Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast: 20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

The story of Daniel, Shadrach Meshach and Abednego illustrate perfectly the protection God places on the righteous even when He is bringing grievous judgment on the land. Joseph was elevated to 2nd ruler in Egypt because of his righteousness and he was able to be the salvation of his family when God sent a great drought over the land of promise. Even Lot was delivered from Sodom because of the righteousness of Abraham and his interceding for his nephew and family By this we understand that if God does bring sore judgment on a land how the people fare will depend on their righteousness before God.

This is the hope we have today and it is through the knowledge that God's judgments are always fair and righteous that we take comfort even though we see the clouds of judgment gathering over America today. Again in Ezekiel we have this concerning the judgments of God. Ezekiel 14:21-23 For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments (see Rev. 6:1-8) upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast? 22 Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it. 23 And they shall comfort you, when ye see their ways and their doings: and ye shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, saith the Lord GOD.

We can see from this brief glimpse at just a few passages in the Bible that God does judge nations and it's always for a reason. God will not tolerate nations that have known Him and then turned from Him. To verify this all one has to do is look at the European nations that once thrived when the Word of God took hold in those nations. Look at the British Empire which once boasted that the sun never set on it because of it's world wide scope. Where is that empire today? You can trace the fall to their turning their back on God and turning their back on God's people when they had the mandate over Palestine. When they tried to stop the Exodus into Palestine of the Jews after promising that land they sealed their fate. Today you would be hard pressed to find a Bible believing Christian in that God forsaken country. (unless it was a missionary tying to win souls for Jesus)

Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

I believe we are at a crossroads in America today. There are still many devout, God fearing and God loving Christians in the nation today. We can make a difference but we must sincerely and righteously follow God. God gave us the formula in 2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name (Christians are called by the name of Christ), shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. That is the formula and it all hinges on the little word "if". Am I willing to do my part and are you willing to do your part? That is the question. If the nation does fall will you and I be considered a Noah, Job or Daniel or will we fall with the rest. It is something to think about. God works miracles and is willing to turn this nation around but it all depends on us.

The greatest danger to this nation is not monetary nor is it military. The greatest danger we face is a turning away from God and his ways. We can tolerate abominations or we can speak against them. We can tolerate those who reject Christ or we can try to win them to Christ.

The ball is in our court!

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Replies:
[> Subject: Very good, Hillbilly


Author:
dori
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Date Posted: 22:15:21 08/19/09 Wed

And you explained it very well for the reading impaired (that would be me) to actually understand it all. I will peek in in the morning before I go out of town to see if you had any responses. I will be gone for four days. I will try to peek in from Chicago, but it's likely I won't be able to stay long. Thank you for this great study. You continue to amaze me. *-)
[> [> Subject: Hillbilly --- Edited


Author:
JulPisacane
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Date Posted: 13:45:34 08/20/09 Thu

Looks like we also know what days we are in .

Matthew 24 comes to mind .


Will share more later - going to try to get some food prepared for a BBQ.

A little off topic but I must say how disappointed I was to hear that Obama requested those in the pulpits
across the USA to use their church
to further the document he refers
to as health care reform.

Thanks for writing this up on what the Bible teaches us concerning the Judgment of the Nations. I knew you would
put together a piece that would help us to understand this topic a bit better.



-----
God judges nations and the judgment is according to their works

Yes- I was reading Ezekiel Chapter 5 this morning that spoke of this with strong warning.

One would think we would take heed after knowing past history - but history does repeat itself.

We are studying Acts at home now Hillblly,
and we are not quite up to Chapter 17 -
I do plan to share what you have written
when we get there .


Psalm 9:17 The wicked shall be turned
into hell, and all the nations that forget God.



Yes - I had shared with another this week the verse of --
They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt- Psalm 106:21


I agree that America is in grave danger.

Thanks again for providing this study. Going to share with my hubby today .


God bless you always for all you do .


In His love,


Julie

Last edited by author: Fri August 21, 2009 06:07:25   Edited 1 time.

[> [> [> Subject: Matthew 24?


Author:
Murray
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Date Posted: 15:29:00 08/20/09 Thu

Julie, I've studied Matthew 24.

Evidently, Hillbilly understands why you've referenced it.

I do not, however.

Care to share you thinking with me?

[> Subject: The ball is in our court!


Author:
Murray
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Date Posted: 08:59:22 08/20/09 Thu

Which ball? To proclaim judgment or reconciation; to wit, that God was in Christ, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation? (II Corinthians 5:18-19)

The two seem juxtaposed.

Last edited by author: Thu August 20, 2009 09:14:12   Edited 1 time.

[> [> Subject: The Ball of


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 16:47:48 08/20/09 Thu

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

The key to avoiding the judgment of God on America is for the Christians of this nation to get where they ought to be with God. Totally submissive to Him. Spreading the gospel, not only with our mouths but with our everyday living so that people will see Christ Jesus in us.

We cannot pray for the nation and get the attention of God (as intercessors) until we tear down the wall of separation we have built between us and God by not adhering to God's Word. We must quit living as the world and obey Romans 12:1-2 which says "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. " (KJV)

God has made it plain that when we will live righteously He will hear us. James put it this way and he was addressing those who are called Christian:

James 4:1-10 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. (KJV)

The spirit of reconciliation covers original sin and sins added up to the moment of reconciliation i.e. salvation and regeneration. After that it is by confession and repentance of sins committed as a Christian (1Jn 1:9-10) or there will be chastisement (Heb. 12:1-13).

1 Corinthians 3:9-18 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (ok, every Christian is building on the foundation stone which is Christ Jesus, Since Paul (not Peter) laid this foundation we look to what he says about building on this foundation) 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; (six things to build on this foundation; three valuable three worthless or of little worth) 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. (Every work as a Christian that you or I do is going to face the judgement of Christ one day) 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;(literally kill, see 1 Jn. 16-17) for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. (KJV)

We see by this the spirit of reconciliation is still there in the persons life but the result of a careless life (which is an unrighteous life and all unrighteousness is sin 1 Jn. 5:17) has it's consequences that will meet him or her at the judgment seat of Christ (2 Cor. 5:10-11)
[> [> [> Subject: I John 1:9


Author:
Murray
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Date Posted: 05:52:46 08/21/09 Fri

It is an enormously difficult task to take I John 1:9 as proof that believers need to be cleansed of their sins over and over and over again after salvation.

It is the only verse in the entire New Testament that possibly could be used to make that argument and the weight of the rest of the New Testament is against it.

The interpretation of this verse that, all things considered, makes the most sense is that this and verse 8 right before it were written to score a bullseye against false Gnostic doctrine.

Gnostics believe that this world is illusory, that flesh is illusory and that sin is also. Therefore, they believe that Jesus did not really come in the flesh and that this is also an illusion. To them, only Spirit is real.

This is why John makes such a point of saying that he had seen, heard and touched Jesus. That Jesus was with the Father and manifested to us, etc.

In verse 8, John says, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." This, again, is a direct bullseye against the false Gnostic belief that sin is of the flesh and that flesh, being an illusion, does not really exist and, therefore, sin also does not. In other words, this is a totally false belief and the truth is not in a person who believes this.

John then gives the solution to this situation in verse 9 which is to confess sin, receive forgiveness of sins and cleansing from all unrighteousness. In other words, to be saved.

[> [> [> [> Subject: Really it's not difficult at all


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 21:23:07 08/21/09 Fri

"It is an enormously difficult task to take I John 1:9 as proof that believers need to be cleansed of their sins over and over and over again after salvation.

It is the only verse in the entire New Testament that possibly could be used to make that argument and the weight of the rest of the New Testament is against it."

Only if a person reads into the New Testament that belief without the other evidence to the contrary. The verses just below John 1 show that John was addressing those whom he considered to be his "little children". This is much in the same context as Paul calling Timothy his son in the faith.

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Scholarship may say that John was addressing lost agnostics but the Bible doesn't. Proof of doctrine is scripture with scripture not scripture with scholarship.

Consider, if you will 2 Corinthians 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Go from the beginning of this chapter and find who the "we" are in it's context. You won't find Paul addressing the lost here. "we" refers to himself in company with the others of like faith. The judgment seat of Christ is Christian judgment opposed to the White Throne judgment (Rev. 20:11-15) Paul tells plainly that at this judgment we receive for what we have done in the flesh. Good or bad. In 1 Cor. 3:10-18, cited in a previous post we find Christians suffering loss at this judgment. It is the same judgment of 2 Cor. 5:10-11. In verse 15 it plainly states: "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." The work is burned but the man remains saved.

I cite again "all unrighteousness is sin" (1 Jn. 5:17) Peter sinned after he was saved and Paul called him on it. All one has to do is read Galatians 2:11-21 to realize this truth. Read 1 Cor. 5:1-5 and see the account of a Christian caught up in a sexual relationship with his mother in law. verse 5 plainly states his spirit is saved in the day of the Lord.

Read the story of Annanias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-11. Many would say they were lost but their crime was greed and lying before God about their giving of the money received for land sold. Remember these two were numbered in a group that suffered great persecution for their faith in Jesus. They risked imprisonment and death for their faith. I say they were sinners saved by grace just like I am and through weakness of the flesh sinned a sin unto death to be made an example before the Church.

No, I would have to say 1 John 1:9 is not the only place we go for proof we must continually confess our sins to obtain forgiveness. Paul had to come to grips with his weakness daily. He said in Romans 7:18-25 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The inward man stands clean and perfected the outward man remains dirty and sinful. As long as the inward man controls the outward man their is no need of repentance of sins commited after salvation but if you find yourself as Paul either doing acts of unrighteousness or thinking unclean thoughts you need to carry it to the throne of God and ask for forgiveness. He is just to forgive. If this is done constantly and in sincerity then the sins will not meet you at the judgement seat of Christ.
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Thank you, HB


Author:
dori
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Date Posted: 23:14:20 08/22/09 Sat

Your last paragraph reaffirms Catholic teaching that we must strive daily to remain in a state of grace; and if we stumble, to seek forgiveness from the Lord. Your study on this topic has been enlightening. Thanks to Murray for bringing it up. *-)
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: With one difference


Author:
Hillbilly
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Date Posted: 13:27:23 08/23/09 Sun

concerning the "state of grace". I believe the Catholic Church teaches that one must "get right" to re-enter into salvation while the passages I pointed to show that sin brings punishment to the Christian but does not include loss of salvation. To confess and repent of those sins is to have them removed so as not to suffer loss at the judgment seat of Christ. That loss concerns rewards and not salvation.

Thanks for posting that.
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Yes, I think that's close, but


Author:
dori
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Date Posted: 19:44:34 08/23/09 Sun

The church teaches we can be forgiven for sins. Where we differ from what you believe is that if we would happen to die while not in a state of grace (that means we sinned and didn't confess it to God and ask for forgiveness) we will not be saved. I think we all pretty much believe the same thing about salvation, we just have different takes on some of these points.


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