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Date Posted: 08:50:18 10/22/03 Wed
Author: SM78
Subject: Hey, Post Away You Cons..
In reply to: Eric 's message, "I hope this is a joke" on 07:30:49 10/22/03 Wed

Hugh, ST, post away all you want. You're the one's who live in an insular, tautological CON world:

THE GOP SAID IT
I BELIEVE IT
THAT SETTLES IT.

Eric, your post re "Dead Jesus" is, may I suggest, speaking of YHWH, the father of Jesus. I agree with you in that Christian Cons have dumped Jesus in favor of a YHWHized Jesus who does not forgive, but rather wants an eye for an eye.

The following is an excerpt from one of my books:

The Jews claim that they are God's chosen people. They also claim that God communicated the Law to them through Moses, the man who is thought to be the primary author of the Pentateuch, which is comprised of the first five books of the Hebrew scriptures. The Law obliged the Jews to offer up sacrifices to their God. These sacrifices were ceremonial in nature and required financial tithes, crop offerings, burnt offerings, and blood offerings to God. Deuteronomy 9:7-23 gives us a description of a Jewish blood sacrifice that involved slaughtering animals. The passage is taken from the New Living Translation (� 1984 by the International Bible Society):

7 Moses said to Aaron, "Come to the altar and sacrifice your sin offering and your burnt offering and make atonement for yourself and the people; sacrifice the offering that is for the people and make atonement for them, as the LORD has commanded." 8 So Aaron came to the altar and slaughtered the calf as a sin offering for himself. 9 His sons brought the blood to him, and he dipped his finger into the blood and put it on the horns of the altar; the rest of the blood he poured out at the base of the altar. 10 On the altar he burned the fat, the kidneys and the covering of the liver from the sin offering, as the LORD commanded Moses; 11 the flesh and the hide he burned up outside the camp. 12 Then he slaughtered the burnt offering. His sons handed him the blood, and he sprinkled it against the altar on all sides. 13 They handed him the burnt offering piece by piece, including the head, and he burned them on the altar. 14 He washed the inner parts and the legs and burned them on top of the burnt offering on the altar. 15 Aaron then brought the offering that was for the people. He took the goat for the people's sin offering and slaughtered it and offered it for a sin offering as he did with the first one. 16 He brought the burnt offering and offered it in the prescribed way. 17 He also brought the grain offering, took a handful of it and burned it on the altar in addition to the morning's burnt offering. 18 He slaughtered the ox and the ram as the fellowship offering for the people. His sons handed him the blood, and he sprinkled it against the altar on all sides. 19 But the fat portions of the ox and the ram-the fat tail, the layer of fat, the kidneys and the covering of the liver- 20 these they laid on the breasts, and then Aaron burned the fat on the altar. 21 Aaron waved the breasts and the right thigh before the LORD as a wave offering, as Moses commanded. 22 Then Aaron lifted his hands toward the people and blessed them. And having sacrificed the sin offering, the burnt offering and the fellowship offering, he stepped down.
23 Moses and Aaron then went into the Tent of Meeting. When they came out, they blessed the people; and the glory of the LORD appeared to all the people. 24 Fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed the burnt offering and the fat portions on the altar. And when all the people saw it, they shouted for joy and fell facedown.

In this passage we read of five animals being slaughtered and a grain offering being given. To give the passage a vivid reality, it is useful to remember the scene in Apocalypse Now in which the water buffalo was sacrificed. People who have not had to slaughter or dress their own meat, or who have never visited a slaughterhouse, have no reality on what it is like to see animals killed. All we moderns know of animals is a family pet and the meat we buy at the store. If we actually had to kill an animal and watch it convulse and twitch as its life blood flowed from it, we would more fully appreciate the powerful impact sacrificing animals to God had on ancient peoples.

Following the sacrifice of the animals, we read that the Lord consumed the burnt offering, the burnt offering being parts of the charred carcasses of the animals. How this was done is unexplained. Apparently, God consumed the animal with fire. These sorts of unexplained passages have led some to believe that YHWH was a space alien using advanced technology as deus ex machina to accomplish his "miracles." Whatever the mechanism of consumption, the scripture relates that God consumed the burned flesh of the sacrificed animals. It was traditional for the Levites, or priests, to eat the remaining parts of the sacrificed animal.

It is worth noting that the term "scapegoat" derives from the Old Testament and refers to a goat upon whom the sin and guilt of the Jews was imputed. The goat stood in the place of the guilty parties and was sacrificed in the place of the deservedly guilty. In our modern lexicon, a scapegoat is the person who is blamed and punished accordingly for the negative results of a group. The scapegoat usually loses his or her job and/or reputation. In this vein, what is completely overlooked by Judeo-Christianity in its current war with Islam is that the faithlessness of Abraham, he who would kill his son for God, is completely responsible for the Arab-Jew conflict.
Abraham did not believe that God would make his wife Sarah (Sarai) pregnant in her old age, and so he went and had sex with Hagar, his maid, she bore Ishmael the child who would become The FATHER OF THE ARABS. You can read about it in Genesis chapter sixteen. Especially memorable is the way in which Sarai beat the pregnant Hagar. We do not condone the beating of pregnant women, but YHWH does.

Many ancient peoples sacrificed animals to appease their gods. Some ancient tribes, such as the Aztecs, believed humans were the ultimate sacrifice and so sacrificed humans to appease their gods . In Genesis 22:1-13, we read of God requiring Abraham to sacrifice his son (The Amplified Bible, � The Lockman Foundation):

1After these events, God tested and proved Abraham and said to him, Abraham! And he said, Here I am.
2[God] said, Take now your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I will tell you.
3So Abraham rose early in the morning, saddled his donkey, and took two of his young men with him and his son Isaac; and he split the wood for the burnt offering, and then began the trip to the place of which God had told him.
4On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance.
5And Abraham said to his servants, Settle down and stay here with the donkey, and I and the young man will go yonder and worship and come again to you.
6Then Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and laid it on [the shoulders of ] Isaac his son, and he took the fire (the firepot) in his own hand, and a knife; and the two of them went on together.
7And Isaac said to Abraham, My father! And he said, Here I am, my son. [Isaac] said, See, here are the fire and the wood, but where is the lamb for the burnt sacrifice?
8Abraham said, My son, God Himself will provide a lamb for the burnt offering. So the two went on together.
9When they came to the place of which God had told him, Abraham built an altar there; then he laid the wood in order and bound Isaac his son and laid him on the altar on the wood.
10And Abraham stretched forth his hand and took hold of the knife to slay his son.
11But the Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, Abraham, Abraham! He answered, Here I am.
12And He said, Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear and revere God, since you have not held back from Me or begrudged giving Me your son, your only son.
13Then Abraham looked up and glanced around, and behold, behind him was a ram caught in a thicket by his horns. And Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up for a burnt offering and an ascending sacrifice instead of his son!

In a bizarre test of faith which would land Abraham in the psychiatric ward of a prison for felony child abuse nowadays, YHWH of the Old Testament actually allowed Abraham to raise a deadly-sharp knife above his son's chest before ordering him to halt. What this psychotic test of faith says about both YHWH and Abraham aside, it does again point to the fact that human sacrifice was considered to be the penultimate sacrifice. Strangely, while he tested Abraham in this manner, YHWH later condemned human sacrifice. In Deuteronomy 12: 9-12, we read YHWH's words (New International Version, � International Bible Society):

9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD , and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God."

So while YHWH had Abraham draw the knife above his head, ready to kill his son Issac, the angel of the Lord stopped him at the last second. YHWH then specifically ordered the Jews not to perform human sacrifice as we read above, for YHWH considered it a pagan practice. However, YHWH still demanded that animals be sacrificed to him if he were to forgive the sins of the Jews.

Conversely, Christianity is built upon a human sacrifice, specifically the human sacrifice of Jesus. While YHWH specifically condemned the practice, one human sacrifice is the basis of Christianity. The Apostle Paul claimed that the sacrifice of Jesus made obsolete the entire system of Old Testament sacrifices. Christianity also radically modified the Jewish view of God as One, for Christianity teaches that God is actually three persons in One: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The New Testament makes the claim that Jesus was God incarnate as the Son, or second member of the Holy Trinity. Although the term "Trinity" appears nowhere in the New Testament, Christianity nevertheless considers the doctrine of the Trinity to be an absolute cornerstone of their faith. Accordingly, Evangelicals condemn as heretical Mormonism, the Jehovah's Witnesses, and other Christian groups who do not embrace the doctrine of the Trinity.

Christians believe that the purpose of Jesus' life was to serve as the ultimate sacrifice for sin. This is consonant with the Old Testament God who requires blood to appease his wrath against human sin. The blood of Jesus is the Christian basis of God's forgiveness, for God made Jesus the ultimate scapegoat for every human sin. Thus, when Jesus was murdered on the Cross by the Jewish Pharisees with the cooperation of the Roman governor Pontius Pilate, God was in effect sacrificing his own incarnation for human sin. That God needed to murder his own incarnation in order to forgive is rooted in the Old Testament idea of justice: An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. The penalty for sin is death, and, someone has to pay that penalty. YHWH demands blood, and not just blood, but also the death that is required to obtain the blood. Rather than making humans pay with their own blood, the New Testament teaches that YHWH allowed animal sacrifices to be used as substitutes until, in the fullness of time, he sacrificed -- by way of a gruesome murder -- his own human incarnation for our sins. In this sense, Abraham's would-be sacrifice of his son prefigured, or modeled, YHWH sacrificing his Son.

Despite the sacrifice of Jesus, humans still die. The Bible teaches that we still die because we are born into sin and death is the penalty for sin. So while we can be spiritually forgiven and saved by faith in Jesus, we must still die physically. The difference is that believers will go to Heaven while the unforgiven will go to Hell. In this sense, Christian salvation is primarily spiritual in that even a believer's body must die. Of course, Christianity addressed the problem of physical death, for the final component of Christian salvation is the resurrection of the corrupted physical body into a glorious resurrection body that will never suffer or die.

The inevitability and finality of physical death is not eliminated in the case of Christian salvation. What Christianity offers, therefore, is Heaven after death. It cannot, as it claims, conquer death. It can only attempt to make death more palatable for those who are saved. It can do so only by making death the ultimate terror for those who are not saved, for Hell begins the minute the unsaved die. The Germans have a term which is translated as "sugar and the whip." The term suggests that there must be sugar to induce a person to behave in a certain manner. The whip comes in when the sugar fails to persuade. Heaven is the sugar of Christianity and Hell the whip. Christianity offers, as E. W. Potter once observed, "salvation with a gun to your head."

Christians always feel that quiet gun cocked at the back of their heads. It is called YHWH's judgment and they hope top make non-Christians feel the fear of the gun. They call it Hell -- probably because their lives are Hell living as they do with their many hypocrisies.

Finally, the core idea of Christianity -- human sacrifice -- is the very thing that Christians find so repulsive when other groups practice it. Christians accuse Satanists of sacrifcing babies, and yet Abraham did. He was stopped, but he was ready to kill a child. And YHWH, the God of the GOP, had Jesus murdered to appease his own guilt over having created the human race whom he wanted to worship him. YHWH first drowned everyone in the world (save Noah and his family) when they wouldn't worship and obey him. Then he thought better of it and killed his Son. If you think about Jesus and the second person of the Trinity, YHWH was really committing suicide by letting himself be killed on the Cross.

Christian worship a human sacrifice. What does that say about them? It says they are cowards and are unwilling to account to God for their actions, this although Rush and Billy Bennet preach accountability and personal responsibility when they are not respectively using illegal drugs or gambling.

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Oh what a loving God! -- Joyce, 11:14:35 10/23/03 Thu