| Subject: Re: Imperial fleet Vs Federation fleet |
Author:
capn hayes
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Date Posted: 15:00:51 10/03/02 Thu
Author Host/IP: NoHost/207.14.48.2
In reply to:
Warspite
's message, "Re: Imperial fleet Vs Federation fleet" on 09:39:27 10/02/02 Wed
>>>No, you're missing a very basic point. We know the
>>>speed of the ship, and we see the torpedo appear from
>>>behind the ship, overhauling it until impact. It is
>>>easy to work out the minimal flight time of the
>>>torpedo (ie time time we can actually see it flying).
>>>Once we have the minimal flight time, we can simply
>>>multiply it by the speed we know it must be doing, to
>>>give us the distance it must have covered. It is a
>>>very simple piece of math. In the example given
>>>(Voy:Dreadnought), we see the USS Voyager fire mark
>VI
>>>photons at the Dreadnought missile (it is clearly
>>>stated that the torps are mark VI). The stated speed
>>>of Dreadnought (they state it twice so there is NO
>>>argument
>>>on this one either) is warp nine (ie 1516c). The
>>>flight time of the torpedoes is about 1.5 seconds, so
>>>even if we are generous and say that the torp was
>only
>>>traveling as fast as Dreadnought (logically it would
>>>have to be faster), AND we round it down to just
>>>1500c, the distance traveled by the torp will still
>be
>>>675,000,000km. Even if we were even more generous and
>>>say that there was just 1 second of flight time
>>>(minimum needed for arming), the distance would
>>>still be 450,000,000km.
>>No you missed the point its possible for those ships
>>to be going at warp nine and be 3 million km apart
>>still fire torpedoes and the torpedoes take 2 seconds
>>to hit. they don't have to be over 400 million klicks
>>away. What is so hard about that to understand.
>
>Okay, I will try one last time. It doesn't matter what
>distance the ships were apart when the firing took
>place. Look, let's consider a real world example. You
>are 10 meters away from another person. That person is
>walking directly away from you at a speed of 1 meter a
>second. You start walking to catch them up. You walk
>at a speed of 2 meters a second. How far do you have
>to walk before you catch them? after five seconds you
>would have covered the inital 10 meter distance, but
>they are not there anymore. They are now five meters
>away from you, because they are moving at 5 meters a
>second. You would have to walk for another five
>seconds before you caught them. Your total distance
>covered would therefore be 20 meters, even though you
>started off just 10 meters apart. You can calculate
>this easily. It the same for these trek examples. The
>target ship was moving away. Once we know the speed of
>the ship, and the flight time of the torpedo, we can
>would out the distance the torpedo must have covered.
>In the Dreadnought example, the flight time was around
>1.5 seconds, and the speed 1516 times lightspeed. If
>we assume light speed to be 300,000km, the distance
>the torpedo covered (regardless of initial firing
>distance) would therefore be ((1516*300,000) + 1.5)
>well over 600,000,000km.
That distance COVERED is not relivent to the CLOSING distance between the ships while traveling at warp. Yes from a point outside the battle from another ship sitting still observing the battle the ships and the torpedo might have covered that 600 million klicks distance as you point out. BUT the realitive distance between the ship's can still be well within 4 million klicks and when they fire the torpedo it may travel 600 million klicks per second but so is everybody else so the speed is not what I'm talking about its the realitve distance between the two ships which can still be in the TM stated ranges. Nothing onscreen has disproven what the TM's say about range. Your correct in the speed the weapons travel its the distance covered that you have wrong. Look at it like this Both ships are going warp 9 and are 3,000,000 km apart, ship A fires at ship B the torpedo is also going warp 9, all it has to close is the distance between the two ships which is 3,000,000 kilometers. Now everything you state about the distance COVERED is correct, it the CLOSING distance that I'm talking about. If I were to discount anything it would be the references about the torpedoes speeding away at 175% the speed of the ship that fired them. Not the ranges. Besides in all of the shows they have made many references to being in or out of weapons ranges. Perhaps it is possible to fire torpedoes based on sensor info from 5 light years away. But the torpedo uses the same antimatter for fuel as it does for warhead detonation. This would limit the range. Probes don't have to worry about using their feul in a warhead, hense greater range, on the order of 750 light-years. Torpedoes can coast indefinetly although I doubt at Warp. Now it they were used as kinetic kill weapons the antimatter depletion of the warhead wouldn't matter. But I doubt this would cause much damage to a ship equiped with Particle shields or Nav deflectors. If you take into consideration that the weapon must use feul to travel at warp this would give a limit to its effective range. At higher warp the drain would also be higher. While the distance covered at warp would be considerable even, hundreds of millions of kilometers! The ship's could still be within the TM established ranges while firing at each other at these speeds. As soon as think of examples from the show I'll post'em. Most battles occur onlt a few kilometers apart anyway so it will take so time to give a good example of long range firing.
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