| Subject: Re: Combined 4000 Klingon ships 4000 Federation ships and DS9 Vs Imperial fleet |
Author:
Warspite
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Date Posted: 14:54:44 09/04/02 Wed
Author Host/IP: ipd54b1fb8.free.wxs.nl/213.75.31.184
In reply to:
capn hayes
's message, "Re: Combined 4000 Klingon ships 4000 Federation ships and DS9 Vs Imperial fleet" on 14:07:36 09/04/02 Wed
>>>Bear with me now, as I don't know any specific
>classes
>>>but the Klingons are going to have 1000 Heavy
>>>Cruisers, 2000 Medium cruisers, and 1000 fighters.
>>>
>>
>>Okay.....shall we say that you want to match them to
>>the equivilent Federation classes? In other words:-
>>
>>Heavy crusiers = Soveriegn = Negh'var.
>>Medium cruisers = Galaxy = Vor'Cha.
>>Fighters = B'rel? (I don't think we have ever actually
>>seen Klingon 'fighters')
>>
>>>The Feds will have 1000 Soveriegns, 2000 Galaxys and
>>>1000 fighters.
>>
>>By fighters, so you mean Peregrines?
>
>I honestly have to say that a thousand Soveriegn and a
>thousand Galxay class starships alone would be enough
>to overwhelm a small fleet of ISD's. But the Feds
>could never muster an awesome fleet of ships like
>that. But if they could yeah I'd have to give them the
>benifit of the doubt.
I think you are exactly right. A fleet of that composition simply doesn't exist. However, if it did this would be my take.....
There are a number of examples of ST torpedo firepower, some high, some low. However in the TNG:TM, a photon is stated to have 64.4MT yield. In TNG:Genesis they get upgraded torpedoes, with the yield increased by 11%. Therefore after TNG:Genesis, we know they equal 71.5MT. There are other references to increased yield, but they don't give figures. Therefore let's be conservative and stick to 71.5MT. Quantums are supposed to be about 3 times the power of a photon. Therefore 71.5 * 3 = 214.5MT
Each Galaxy can fire 8 photon torpedoes in a single burst.
2000 * 8 = 16,000 photon torpedoes
Each Sovereign can fire up to three quantums in a salvo, as well as the same photon launch as a Galaxy (they have separate photon and quantum launchers).
1000 * 8 = 8,000 photons
1000 * 3 = 3,000 quantums
Peregrines. We will assume each can fire a single photon =
1000 * 1 = 1,000 photons.
Therefore 1 salvo =
25,000 photons = 25,000 * 71.5MT = 1,787,500MT = 1,787.5 GT
3,000 quantums = 3,000 * 214.5MT = 643,500MT = 643.5 GT
Therefore, combined torpedo firepower = 2,431,000MT (2,431GT) per salvo.
Add to that phaser firepower.
If we assume the Klingons have just 3/4 firepower of the Fed fleet, we get 1,823,250MT
Add to that the disruptor firepower
2,431,000 + 1,823,250 = 4,254,250MT PER fleet torpedo salvo.
Let's assume that the combined phaser and disruptors are equivalent to just 50% of the torpedo firepower.
Therefore, total firepower for the fleet per salvo (Torpedo launches can be repeated every 15 seconds, phasers can fire more rapidly, but lets say just once every 15 secs) is:-
4,254,250 + (4,254,250 * 0.5) =
4,254,250 + 2,127,125 = 6,381,375MT (6,381.375 GT) every 15 seconds.
Whoops, nearly forgot, the fleet also contains DS9.
DS9 has a total of 12 launchers and each launcher can fire 6 torpedoes at the same time, so a single salvo could be 72 torpedoes. DS9 can fire both photon and quantum torpedoes.
If the salvo was photons, it would be 5,148MT, if it was quantums it would be 15,444MT. Let's make it and average of the two and say 10,296MT.
DS9 also has 10 phaser emitters, the smallest of which is equivalent to a Galaxy phaser array. The largest is a planetary defence phaser. However, using the same 50% calc above (and averageing the difference between photons and quantums), this would add another 5,173MT. This would give us a total DS9 firepower of 15,469MT.
Therefore total fleet firepower is:-
6,381,375 + 15,469 = 6,396,844MT or 6,396.844GT every 15 seconds.
Now, let's look at turbolaser firepower:-
The famous turbolaser commentaries do a number turbolaser firepower estimates in different ways.
Option 1: Using the famous ESB asteroid as a guide (melting only).
"The atomic bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima was rated at 15 kilotons. This translates to about 63 terajoules. Using my conservative estimate for TL bolts (ignoring vaporisation), a middle-sized TL bolt has about 30 TJ of energy. Therefore, a TL bolt has about half the energy of the Hiroshima bomb."
Option 2: Using BDZ (for this calc BDZ = melting an entire planetary crust down to one meter) as a guide...
Option 2a:
"If ISDs carry 200 Turbolasers (as suggested by blueprints), then they must average around 2.5 million terawatts of sustained firepower per cannon. Of course, there are different sized cannons, some releasing less power than this, and some more. This power output is comperable to the detonation of a 595 Megaton nuclear bomb every second (per cannon)."
Option 2b:
"The common belief is that ISDs carry 60 turbolasers. This is very conservative, since 64 cannons are mounted immediately lateral to the command superstructure alone, with scores covering the rest of the hull. However, if we assume there are only 60 cannons, then they must average around 8 million terawatts of firepower each. This is comperable to the detonation of a 1900 Megaton nuclear bomb every second."
Option 3:
The famous 200GT quote from ICS:ATOC
So, lets summarise.
Option 1 gives us a light turbolaser of 7.5 KT
Option 2a gives us a turbolaser of 595 MT
Option 2b gives us a tuebolaser of 1,900 MT
Option 1 is good, because it comes from a canon source, but bad because it only shows a light turbolaser, and may not show the full power available. (it is also very low, too low to be realistic IMHO)
Option 2a is bad because it over-estimates the number of weapons available, and also because it bases it's data on an unproven premise (ie the definition of BDZ) and only official material.
Option 2b is bad (and wrong), simply because of the number of turbolasers used. In his own words, he says there are 64 visible, but then uses just 60 in his calcs! Also, like option 2a, it bases it's data on an unproven premise (ie the definition of BDZ) and only official material.
Option 3 is bad because it is based on unproven official material, and may not even based on the type of turbolaser fitted to ISDs. Furthermore, on Curis Saxton's own site he doesn't state this figure, instead only stating that 1kt would have been enough to destroy the asteroid in TESB, and that the "sixty-four visibly large dorsal heavy cannons must have considerably greater power than even this lower limit".
So what do we do? We have figures ranging from 7.5kt to 200GT. My personal opinion is that option 1 is far far too low, and options 3 and 2b are too high. Option 2a is still high IMHO (since it is based on an unproven premise), but is rather more acceptable.
Therefore, if we assume option 2a is correct, we have 595 megatons per turbolaser, the Star Trek fleet would fire the equivalent of 10,751 turbolasers (averaged between light and heavy) every 15 seconds.
The Imperial fleet stated has just 100 ISDs and 2 SSDs. That means each ship would be targeted by the equivelent of 105 turbolasers every 15 seconds, or something like 7 turbolasers hitting each ship every single second. This would be far in excess of what was seen in the battle of Endor at its hieght. Since Trek ships have shown the capability to fire torpedoes in the millions of km range, it is likely that they are going to get a number of 'free' salvos before they even come into range. Failing that, a large portion of the fleet will still get at least one 'free shot' thanks to their cloaking devices.
ISDs and SSDs are powerful ships, but against this numnber of trek ships I just don't see them winning.
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