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Date Posted: 13:55:10 02/01/04 Sun
Author: Robert
Author Host/IP: host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de / 131.188.93.25
Subject: I already told you.....
In reply to:
Joe Taylor
's message, "Re: Nor do I bash you for bashing Moore.... :)" on 21:00:51 01/29/04 Thu
the chance to beat Bush is part of why to support a certain candidate. This doesn't mean ANY available candidate. Quote from his site: "and I will work enthusiastically for any of the non-Lieberman 8 who might get the nomination."
If he would be the sellout you estimate him for, he wouldn't exclude Lieberman.
If you REALLY think it wouldn't make any difference, then I suggest to vote for Bush. Doing it you're at least aware of what you're getting. :)
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That last sentence sums up what I was saying in an above post...the primary reason I won't vote for any of the Democrats so far is that I don't know what I'll get. I don't care if they WIN or not, but when I vote, I want to say "I'm voting for this individual because he/she will do this for me." -- Hero of Time, 17:32:55 02/01/04 Sun (68-119-244-175-rcp2.ubr1.wrbg.mo.charter.com/68.119.244.175)
Let's face it, voting is greedy. Probably not the way it was intended, but there's no denying it now.
Therefore, I could care less about free medical care or increasing welfare - what have I got to benefit from it? My factory job provides medical insurance, and the fact that I'm an "honest" *GRIN* individual who works for a living and is wary of charity disqualifies me for welfare.
I'll have to do another post on this...from my Personal Finance class textbook, it shows the tax brackets. The 'poor' have an incredible low tax rate, whereas the 'rich' have an extremely high one (like 35% or something, but don't quote me just yet). The book is in my car, and it's fucking cold outside, so I'd rather not go get it just yet. But yeah, it makes you wonder when Democrats say "Those cockmongering Republicans are giving tax cuts to the wealthy!", well, isn't it fair? I mean, the rich people are paying a shit ton of money, and it seems like they essentially carry the tax burden.
Again, I'm not sure, so keep the flames on low until I research my claims a bit here.
And no, if Joe posts something about this, I probably won't buy it either.
But yeah. Shit, I forgot where I was going with this.
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MY last sentence wasn't what YOU said before.... -- Robert, 05:46:04 02/05/04 Thu (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)
it was ironically and this changes the meaning quite a bit. There's quite a bit of difference and I don't think Joe is in any danger to vote for Bush. *L*
BTW, if you don't vote this means vote nevertheless. You just give each side one half. This means at least half a vote for the democrat candidate. Maybe until end of the year you'll decide to give him the other half too. :)
And another thing - there are three groups: poor, middle class and rich. Main tax payers are the middle class, not the rich. Part of it is that if you're rich you have plenty chances to avoid paying taxes. And for example companies get more than three times the amount of 'welfare' than poor people. Of course taken from taxes people like you have to pay. Funny, isn't it. *L*
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Since when is 35% extremely high? -- Joe Taylor, 20:45:30 02/01/04 Sun (wc03.wlfdle.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com/66.185.84.70)
Anyway, now that the dividend tax is gone, really rich people pay 3% of their total income in taxes. Poor people still have to pay 7% in payroll tax.
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Honestly......taxes suck, yes...but its a nessecary evil. I'm all for taxes it its put to good use. IE- To Charitys and such for Govn tax...and for State tax I'd like to see it go to the roads and such. Problem is that this is NOT visible anywhere. We've already seen how MANY charitys steal from people and don't use all thier money, Here in MO I haven't seen an improvement on the roads for YEARS. So yeah. As long as my tax dollars aren't being put to good use visible to me, give me my damn money back.....but if our tax money was being used for REAL needs instead of Congress Pay raises.....I'd be happy. I Don't mind helping to pay for the troops salarys. Thats cool....but I really doubt its even going there. -- Hierophant, 11:13:23 02/02/04 Mon (adsl-65-66-159-208.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net/65.66.159.208)
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I have a problem with being taxed for charities....that's not what taxes are used for. In essence, they're like paying rent to live in the nation and use its benefits. -- Hero of Time, 16:57:09 02/02/04 Mon (68-119-244-175-rcp2.ubr1.wrbg.mo.charter.com/68.119.244.175)
You'd be surprised how much of taxes ARE being used for their purpose, but we don't see it. Consider that if someone robs you, shoots you, or sets your pad ablaze, your tax dollars will yield the proper emergency response. Whether or not you use it as often as you pay taxes is irrelevent...you still have it there, like insurance.
It's like programs in the Matrix : "The ones that are doing their job are invisible...you'd never know they were there."
I think. Maybe.
But yeah. Congresspeople can suck it. *L*
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Well, think of it this way: life is more important than money. -- Joe Taylor, 19:02:05 02/02/04 Mon (wc03.wlfdle.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com/66.185.84.70)
This is why there're safety nets like welfare. Besides, police, defense, firefighting, roads, etc., are all public goods, which means that they can only be paid for from taxes, with the market either being unable to provide them or unable to provide them efficiently.
Come back to me when the top income tax rate is 75%.
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I dunno.....I'm rather fond of cash, and not too fond of other people..... -- Hero of Time, 05:18:36 02/03/04 Tue (68-119-244-175-rcp2.ubr1.wrbg.mo.charter.com/68.119.244.175)
That safety net has turned more into those 'water muscles'...once you start them, you don't want to let them go.
Huh?
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The socalled welfare is required for emergency situations - It could be less much less if there would be a right to get work and decent payment for it. -- Robert, 06:52:39 02/05/04 Thu (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)
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Um, Robert, how exactly can there be a right to work? -- Joe Taylor, 22:56:44 02/05/04 Thu (wc03.wlfdle.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com/66.185.84.70)
I mean, technically there can be, but I don't see any place where there's full employment. There're always small things like seasonal unemployment (you don't really expect employers to pay Santa Clauses all the year 'round, do you?) and structual unemployment. It's just impossible to get full employment.
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Also, people can quit their jobs because they get pissed, but nobody else happens to need any extra help. It happened to me for about a month, before I got this kickass factory job. -- Heroic Employer, 04:32:08 02/06/04 Fri (68-119-244-175-rcp2.ubr1.wrbg.mo.charter.com/68.119.244.175)
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Just what I meant....:) -- Robert, 15:04:50 02/06/04 Fri (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)
since you can't guarantee work, expecially nowadays with all the downsizing goining on, that people can get a job that is that provides their living, it's necessary to deal with the stuff in a different way. Obviously you can't let people starve if there aren't any jobs available.
Main problem today however is that due to automation fewer and fewer people are required to produce the stuff. What about the ones who are downsized?
Reducing the population will not work because then way too much stuff is produced, so that again people have to be downsized.
The complete economical system has to be reorganized. If the current line will go on the stuff will collapse within not too much time.
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SHEESH!!! Why should I pay for roads when I don't have a car!!!.... -- Robert, 05:59:26 02/05/04 Thu (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)
to have a small paved bicicle way is fully sufficient for me.
Do you see now what the argument you used actually means? :)
Or why should I pay for space missions towards Mars and stuff. I don't intend to ever go there! Have the people pay for it who want it. Etc etc.
And BTW, I agree with welfare for poor, they're in need of it. I don't agree with the tons of welfare given to corporations who already make top profits.
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I love you. -- Heroic Infatuation, 17:39:54 02/05/04 Thu (68-119-244-175-rcp2.ubr1.wrbg.mo.charter.com/68.119.244.175)
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I DONT!!! - You're one of the f---ing drivers I have to pay for..... -- Robert, 15:12:58 02/06/04 Fri (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)
and as thanks they're a permanent threat for my life - not to mention they're permanently blocking the streets when I intend to cross! *L*
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That's why I love you, yo. *L* -- Hero of Time, 04:32:46 02/07/04 Sat (68-119-244-175-rcp2.ubr1.wrbg.mo.charter.com/68.119.244.175)
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Same with me..... -- Robert, 09:14:13 02/07/04 Sat (host093025.phil.uni-erlangen.de/131.188.93.25)
Actually I like drivers. I never was very fond of driving. It's much more comfortable to have others drive you. *L*
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