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Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba Author: vikingas [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 11/21/02 22:36:54 In reply to: Kernius 's message, "Re: Apie istorijà" on 11/21/02 21:14:00 Jeigu galetumei atsiusti paskutines C. Gedgaudo knygos dalies teksta word'o doc'e, lietuviskai, buciau ne tik as dekingas bet ir visi kas brangina musu palikima. Kaip ar pavyktu? Jei turi skeneri, ash tave pamokinciau kaip tai greitai padaryti. vikingas [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba Author: Kernius [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11/23/02 06:25:25 Vikingai.su malonumu prisideciau prie jusu svetaines pletojimo bet tam neturiu techniniu galimybiu,o taip tai saunu,nes istorija gvildedanciu tik viena autoritarine baranausko,kuri yra ribotu paziuriu susidaro toks ispudis kad baranauskas yra ruosiamas gudaviciui pakaitalas [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranuasko Author: vikingas [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11/26/02 20:10:54 M<ano komentaras ne apie Sv. Toma: Apie "NeTomizma" - jei svetaines autorius nesupyks. Citata is <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/zemyna/filosofija.htm">http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/zemyna/filosofija.htm</a> : "Ájungtas á teologijæ tvarkà, žmogiškasis žinojimas èia tampa tarsi teologinës doktrinos dalimi, galinèia tarnauti tikëjimui. Manau, kad, tik tarnaudama teologijai, filosofija doriniu atžvilgiu ágyja aukšèiausià prasmæ". ... . "Ijungtas i praeities testinuma, zmogiskasis zinojimas ir faktai apie istorija netampa istorines doktrinos dalimi, galintis tarnauti ateiciai. Manau, kad tik tarnaudama asmeninei nuomonei, istorija faktiniu atzvilgiu igyja auksciausia prasme, - perfrazavus svetaines autoriaus zodziais taip turetu skambeti shis apibrezimas. Ne visi masto ir mastys taip kaip tu (pvz. Gudavicius), ne visi interpretuos istorinius faktus taip kaip tu (pvz. vikingas). Tu kaip istorikas (archeologas?) renki faktus, kitu isvados tau keistai nepriimtinos, o tavo baigiasi ties archologija (kasinejimaisi po daiktus). Visgi istorija - tai interpretacija ir sugebejimas interpretuoti (nesakau ir nesakysiu, kad vykusiai interpretuoju:). Tam tikri ivykiai pvz. taikiu gyventoju zudynes, priÿ [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranuasko Author: V.Kucinskas [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 09/ 1/07 10:13:10 Ka jus cia gincijates del tuscio maiso.Juk lietuviai turi 37% siaures aziatu N3 genu, 45% pietiniu aziatu R1a genu, o likusieji 18% turbut yra runkeliu genai... [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: vikingas [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11/26/02 20:14:28 M<ano komentaras ne apie Sv. Toma: Apie "NeTomizma" - jei svetaines autorius nesupyks. Citata is <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/zemyna/filosofija.htm">http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/zemyna/filosofija.htm</a> : "Ájungtas á teologijæ tvarkà, zmogiskasis zinojimas èia tampa tarsi teologinës doktrinos dalimi, galinèia tarnauti tikëjimui. Manau, kad, tik tarnaudama teologijai, filosofija doriniu atzvilgiu ágyja auksèiausià prasmæ". ... . "Ijungtas i praeities testinuma, zmogiskasis zinojimas ir faktai apie istorija netampa istorines doktrinos dalimi, galintis tarnauti ateiciai. Manau, kad tik tarnaudama asmeninei nuomonei, istorija faktiniu atzvilgiu igyja auksciausia prasme, - perfrazavus svetaines autoriaus zodziais taip turetu skambeti shis apibrezimas. Ne visi masto ir mastys taip kaip tu (pvz. Gudavicius), ne visi interpretuos istorinius faktus taip kaip tu (pvz. vikingas). Tu kaip istorikas (archeologas?) renki faktus, kitu isvados tau keistai nepriimtinos, o tavo baigiasi ties archologija (kasinejimaisi po daiktus). Visgi istorija - tai interpretacija ir sugebejimas interpretuoti (nesakau ir nesakysiu, kad vykusiai interpretuoju:). Tam tikri ivykiai pvz. taikiu gyventoju zudynes, prievartinis siuntimas uzsienin (pvz. Sibiras), faktai bylojantys apie tam tikrus ziaurius ivykius (genocida). Tai ka "prikalti prie kryziaus" (tavo zodziai) naikinama tauta ar naikintojus???? Sakyciau tavo komentaras - absoliuti nesamone, paremta keistomis ambicijomis, buti vieninteliu teisingu istoriku Lietuvoje. (Tam pvz. daugiau nei keista tavo svetaine apie "butoves slepinius", kodel vien kritika? Negi tie du zmogeliai verti tik juos?) Apie Rusias ir Rusija: - varingiju "Rus'ia". As esu salininkas torijos, kad tie varingijai atvyko is Truso, Prusijoje (kartu su Danais). Man ten teko buti ir matyti archeologus is Maskvos 1986 - 1987 metais istysusiais veidais, kai jie ten rado milzinishka Varingiju kapinyna, o jie buvo kaip tik atvyke irodyti priesinga teorija, kad jie atvyko is Kijevo :). Deja, radiniai bylojo ka kita. O tuos faktus Rusijos MA naikino. Dabar dirbu kartu su vienu profesoriumi ex MA valdybos nariu, kuris pasakojo kaip naikinama istorija priesinga Maskvos teorijoms. Zlugus teokratishkai pagonishkai santvarkai tarp Trakijos ir Baltijos, baigesi Varingiju (taip jie save vadino origanaluose IX - XI a.) epocha. Baigesi teokratine - karine pagonishka valdymo struktura, kuri dar kuri laika laikesi Baltu zemese. Maskovija ta Rus'ios (Kijevo) termina tiesiog pavoge ivesdama Karine (Caras) - Teokratine (pagal Sofijos svajones) valdzia, pradedami keista Mongolishkos karines ir Konstantinopolio dvasines sistemos hibrido-monstro gyvenima. Cia mes niekad nesutarsime, nes tu atmeti religijos (pasauleziuros:) reiksme valstybes ir tautos vystymesi (evoliucijoje), sveniai apibudinus tavo poziuri - "istorinis marksizmas". [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: Kernius [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11/28/02 08:05:22 Vikingai,tavo paskutinis pasisakymas nesuprantamas,baranausko svetaines seimininkas dar karto sako kad tai marksistu ideologu tesejai,dedamiesi istorijos megejais,pats esi platesniu paziuru ir gana demokratisku uzmoju ir nera ko jiems pataikauti ir drasiai testi C.Gedgaudo veikala tuo tau linkiu sekmes [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: vikingas [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11/28/02 16:49:50 As apie T.B. poziuri i istorija, kuris visgi nera be itakos (kaip ir mano:), o rezultate pas ji visgi gaunasi "istorinis marksistinis". Skaityti: - <a rel=nofollow target=_blank href="http://istorija.nkm.lt/tekstai/specivadas/marksizm.html">http://istorija.nkm.lt/tekstai/specivadas/marksizm.html</a> Indo euorop. zodelis - weid (veid, vedoti, vedos) - manau geriausiai apibundina istorijos paskirti. wit \Wit\, v. t. & i. [inf. (To) Wit; pres. sing. Wot; pl. Wite; imp. Wist(e); p. p. Wist; p. pr. & vb. n. Wit(t)ing. See the Note below.] [OE. witen, pres. ich wot, wat, I know (wot), imp. wiste, AS. witan, pres. w[=a]t, imp. wiste, wisse; akin to OFries. wita, OS. witan, D. weten, G. wissen, OHG. wizzan, Icel. vita, Sw. veta, Dan. vide, Goth. witan to observe, wait I know, Russ. vidiete to see, L. videre, Gr. ?, Skr. vid to know, learn; cf. Skr. vid to find. ????. Cf. History, Idea, Idol, -oid, Twit, Veda, Vision, Wise, a. & n., Wot.] To know; to learn. ``I wot and wist alway.'' --Chaucer. wit \Wit\, n. [AS. witt, wit; akin to OFries. wit, G. witz, OHG. wizz[=i], Icel. vit, Dan. vid, Sw. vett. [root]133. See Wit, v.] 1. Mind; intellect; understanding; sense. Who knew the wit of the Lord? or who was his counselor? --Wyclif (Rom. xi. 34). A prince most prudent, of an excellent And unmatched wit and judgment. --Shak. Will puts in practice what wit deviseth. --Sir J. Davies. Ir Gk. historia "history, record, inquiry," from historein "inquire," from histor "wise man, judge." Tagi vedos, videti, vidmantas, vedimas, vesti, (vadzios?:) ir apibudina mano istorijos supratima - tai ismintingas bylojimas apie (nezinau, kodel slavams palikome videt'i?) praeiti dabarbyje, kaip dabarti priklausancia nuo jos ir pakeista del musu (geresnes?) buties. Tai visu pirma ismintis, nes kas valdo praeiti valdo ateiti ir jeigu sugeba dabartyje issaugoti ir itvirtinti ja - valdys ateiti. Todel istorijoje (priesingai politikai) maziausiai turi likti asmeniniu ambiciju, nes kitaip ... . Pradziai tiek ... vikingas [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: Kernius [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11/29/02 21:47:35 Sveikas,Vikingai,tavo paziuros toli siekiancios ir tai malonu skaityti.Noreciau trumpai mesti zvilgsni i Tarvydo indoeuropieciai.Pats zodis indoeuropieciai gana velivas,ankstesnis tautu skistimas buvo ugriu- finai,arijai.Todel skaitant teksta indoeuropieciai iskart gaunam tautu makalyne,jau pats pavadinimas klaidingas poziuris i praeiti.Baltu senasis klodas yra arijai.Todel cia ir butu klausimas baranauskui ar getai buvo arijai arba siu dienu terminu baltai.Stai keletas arijiskos kilmes tautu kursiai,armenai, cecenai ir is priesingos puses Tibetas. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: vikingas [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12/ 6/02 10:56:35 Mh, "arijai" - termina pagadino viena valstybe ir asmenybe 1933 - 1945 metais. Po visu tu ivykiu terminas "indoeuropieciai" - ji pakeicia. Asmenishkai man jokio skirtumo, kuris zodis bus naudojamas, tegul mokslininkai raso apie tai disertacijas ir ginasi garbes laipsnius :) Man svarbiau sutelkti demesi i musu kaipo Lietuviu- Baltu (jotvingiu, heruliu, prusu, latgaliu ir t.t.) praeiti ir kiek imanoma objektyviau pateikti islikusia originalia medziaga is tu laiku ir apie tuos laikus. Mano giliu isitikinimu, mes kaip tauta nykstame ir jeigu nieko nedarysime, tai 100 - 150 metu begyje apie mus gales rasti info tik bibliotekuose. Mano meginimas yra tik medziagos pateikimas, kad niekam nebutu geda pasakyti - as Lietuvis ir mano tautos istorijai daugiau nei 2000 metu (min.), o tai pasakes jis galetu pagrysti istorine medziaga. Ypach tai liecia lietuvius uzsienyje. vikingas [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: Kernius [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12/ 6/02 10:30:13 IGAIKÐÈIO VYKINTO PILIES BEIEÐKANT Po Þemaitijos krikðto, pradëjus statyti pirmàsias baþnyèias ir kuriantis miesteliams, pastebëtas toks reiðkinys: baþnyèios kilo toliau nuo pagoniðkø piliavieèiø ir ðventvieèiø. Pavyzdþiø nemaþai: Luokë gerokai nutolusi nuo Ðatrijos kalno, Vieðvënai - nuo Getautës, piliakalnio, Þarënai - nuo Plinijos, Telðiai - nuo Dþiugo, Seda - nuo Rimuliø, Plungë - nuo Gondingos ir kt. Iðnyko gyvenvietës ir nebuvo pastatytos baþnyèios prie tokiø reikðmingø piliakalniø kaip Medvëgalis, Burbiðkiai ir kitø. "Ðvarioje" vietoje ásikûrë .ir Þemaièiø vyskupijos centras Vaniai. Tverai taip pat atsirado toliau nuo þymiosios pagoniðkosios piliavietës. 1251-aisiais metais vykæs istoriniuose ðaltiniuose minias Tverø mûðis galëjo vykti kaþkur netoli Vembutø pilies, tai yra dabartiniø Tverø apylinkëse. Miestelis, nutoldamas nuo þymiosios pilies, nusineðë senàjá jos pavadinimà - Tverai. Tviremet arba Tverement - tai vertimai á kitas kalbas, kuriomis raðë senovës metraðtininkai. Dabartinis piliakalnio pavadimmas siejamas su Vembutø ir Vydmantø kaimø pavadinimais. Vembutø, Vydmantø kaimai, Domanto pelkë - tai vietovardþiai, kurie gali turëti ryðá su Þemaièiø kunigaikðèiø vardais. Vydmantø gyvenvietë yra netoli Palangos miesto. Vembutø kaimas - Vieðvienø seniûnijoje, ðalia Getautës piliakalnio, kur galëjo bûti 1219 metø Halièo-Volynës sutartyje minimos þemaièiø kimigaikðèio Vambuto valdos. Stasys Kasparavièius, Þemaièiø muziejaus "AIka"direktorius 2000 m. lapkrièio 2 d. Stai istrauka is teksto kur paminetas Getautes piliakalnis net du kartus,o tiksliau tai du skirtingi piliakalniai tuo paciu pavadinimu.Klausimas Getautes piliakalnis pavadinimas sudarytas ne is getu? Cia baranauskui apsisviesti. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: vikingas [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12/ 8/02 22:22:31 Sveikas, Kerniau klausimai yra viena is keisciausiu gyvenimo daliu - viena - jie kyla is nezinios, antra - is zinojimo, trecia - pazininimo (isminites) raidos (procesas) pasekoje. Vienu atvejus tu randi atsakyma, kitu - kitas, treciu - abu. Manau TB yra vienas is tu zmoniu kurie turi paruoshe atsakymus (bent jau giliai "dushioje") i visus klausimus lieciancius istorija (toks jo likimas ir darbas;). Jis jau turi susiklosciusi omeni (samone, pagrindas) lieciancia ja ir jie "Tomiskai" tikslus, bet ne daugiau (kaip ir "vikingiski", "kerniski" ir t.t.). Tai interpretacijos. Tavo nuosirdus domejimasis istorija - daugiau negu sveikintinas ir girtinas. O teisingas atsakymas - kas ji zino? Tik tas kas ji priima kaip teisinga! Aciu, Kerniau uz tavo ieskojimus, manau jie kaip ir visu musu ieshkojimai slepia - atradimus. Vikingas [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: Kernius [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12/ 9/02 06:54:55 Vikingai,tavo asmenvardis isvestas is zodzio vikingai,bet vyriskame amenvardyje negali buti priebalse -g-,nes jos reiksme yra,kad asmenvardis priklauso moteriskai giminei,priebalse -g- gali buti vyr. asmenvardyje tik zodzio pradzioje t.y.pirmoji raide.-k- reiskia vyr.gimine asmenvardyje,o -g-mot.gimine.O kad Gedgaudas gali isvirsti i getauta t.y. priebalse -d- i -t- tokios taisykles nera,cia baranausko ismislas Ir dar nekiekvienas istorikas save gali vadinti istoriku jeigu jisai pirmoje dalyje ar skiriuje savo pagrindinime istoriniame veikale nenagrineja mitologijos tai toks istorikas gali vadintis geriausiu atveju kronikininku arba lietuviskai rastiniku tokio vardo nusipelno tiek gudavicius tik baranauskas,o patys silciausi ir didziausi nuopelnai cia atitenka Narbutui. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: vikingas [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12/11/02 14:02:50 Kalbinius dalykus paliksiu nuosalyje. Apie tautosaka (mitologija) - visiskai sutinku. Ji butina, kad pazintumei tautos sielos gelmes ir testumei seka... . Kai turesiu daugiau laiko :(( nauja skyreli "TautoSe(a)ka" atidarysiu. Klausyk, gal tu galetumei parupinti medziagos jam? Ash vis taip ikyriai klausiu, nes nebespeju tvarkyti sitos svetaines. O pagalba verkianciai reikalinga. Jeigu turi galimybe surinkti legendu, padavimu, pasaku, patarliu, misliu, dainu tekstus gal ....? Mhhh? Arba tiesiog atsiusti nuorodas su linkais i tautosakines svetaines? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: Kernius [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12/14/02 10:27:34 Sveiki,Vikingai,pora zodziu del mitologijos internetines versijos tai neturiu ka pasiuliti,bet man paciam pavyko isskaityti vadinama magini kvadrata SATOR,kas idomu cia AREPO TENET OPERA ROTAS uzkoduotas lietuviska mitologine dievybe nezinau jeigu teisingai parinkau zodi,to pasekoje pavyko islukstenti gana daug musu paslaptingu dievybiu.Todel visa tai nera noro laikyti paslaptyje ir jeigu atsirastu remejas ar remeju esu pasiruoses pateikti paciam leidybai,internetine versija nelabai tinka nes yra painus narpliojimas ir daug vaizdines medziagos t.y. simboliu.Su malonumu perleisiu paciam leidybai tik duok zinoti kai atsiras remejas [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: Kernius [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12/14/02 13:05:40 Vikingai,noreciau galutinaui padeti taska del getu zvilterk i lietuvos Statutu svetaine ten tituliniame lape paminetos tautos siulau idemiau zvigtereti i irasa Sama:gitie,zodije gitie antroji raide t.y. balse i istikruju yra runa e ant jos nera taskelio ir virsutinieje daly yra nezymus bruksnys i kaire o apatineje daly yra bruksnelis i desine taip yra rasoma runa-e-ir gittie skaitoma getie t.y. zemaiciai ir yra getai. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: vikingas [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12/14/02 23:47:55 As dar nueisiui i British Library paziuresiu mikrofilmus, o gal net ir pati originala. Tada ir nuimsime taska (arba padesime). Is mano naujo archyvo nr. 2 1600 metu medziaga: In SAMOGITIA (which in their language means Low-land) the people are tall and of excellent stature, but rude and barbarous in their manner and behaviour, using modest and homely food. The Russians call this province Samotz-kasembla. There are no fair buildings here at all, but their houses are like sheds or poor cottages only, made of wood, and covered with straw or reed. From the bottom upwards, their buildings gradually become smaller and smaller, like the keel of a ship, {not in 1598D{or a great helmet}not in 1598D}. In the top it has one window, letting light in from above, under which there is the hearth or chimney where they cook their food. In that house they hide themselves, their wives, children, servants, maids, sheep, cattle, corn and furniture altogether. 10. Sichardus {not in 1598D{in his history of Germany}not in 1598D} writes that the people of Samogitia have descended from the Saxons, and therefore ought to be subject to the kingdom of Polonia, yet, {not in 1598D{although the Saxons deny it to be a part of their jurisdiction, they confirm it to}not in 1598D} belong to the precinct of Saxony. Ir tau turetu buti idomu : VIVIVUTO or, as it is called by some, VIDINITUS, king of Borussia, in the year of Christ 573, when he was 116 years old, before he cast himself into a fire together with his brother as a sacrifice to his Gods, divided his possessions to his sons as follows. He had, as is reported, 12 sons. The first was LITHPO, or as others called him LITALAN, to whom he gave Lithuania the Lower, and made him king and sovereign of the rest, but he was rejected by his brothers because of his murder of CRIBE, a Bishop of them by that name. 11. Among the other eleven he divided the country of Spruse. Of these the first <son>, called ZAMO, obtained that region which after him to this day is called Zambia (Samland) which has on its West and North the salt sea, on the East lake Curisch-haff (Curonensis lacus) and the river Deme, and on the South the river Pregel. It is an accepted view among them that he lived on mount GALTAGARB. The second <son> SUDO got as his portion that part of the country where you now find Oletzo, Stradaun, Lick, part of the precincts or liberties of Iohanisburg, Letzen, Angerburg and Insterburg. Taig Sambiai (Prusijos) ir Zemaiciai ta pati tauta! Visada tokie ir buvo. Jeigu paziuresi tu laiku zemelapius nustebsi rades panasius vietovardzius abiejuose krastuose. Mane labiausiai nustebino Kurse Nerunga prie Rugijos (Riugeno). Ta medziaga archyve nr. 3 paskelbsiu. O zemaiciai >< sarmatai - getai > derinys gana tiketinas. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Apie istorijà ir pagalba ir apie Baranausko Author: Kernius [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12/15/02 18:47:59 Vikingai,kad zemaiciai buvo sarmatai sito irodineti tikriausiai nereikia nes apie tai visi senieji istorijos autoriai raso,o sarmatai tai ugriu-finai,sarmatai tai sar+matai tai zmogus ziurintis primerktom akim. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

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