VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

Saturday, May 16, 05:53:27pmLogin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1[2] ]
Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Philip Zuvanich
[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]
Date Posted: 23:34:24 01/22/05 Sat
In reply to: Mom 's message, "Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know" on 13:49:58 01/17/05 Mon

I'm reading them once in a while, but as I've said before... I expect to be entertained when I look in here, so I don't usually post. However... I happen to have just come across this in George Carlin's new book "When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops?", and I found it very entertaining.

THEY CAME FROM OUT OF THE SKY

I find it discouraging---and a bit depressing---when I notice the unequal treatment afforded by the media to UFO believers on the one hand, and on the other, to those who believe in an invisible supreme being who inhabits the sky. Especially as the latter belief applies to the whole Jesus-Messiah-Son-of-God fable.

You may have noticed that , in the media UFO believers are usually referred to as buffs, a term used to diminish and marginalize them by relegating them to the ranks of hobbyists and mere enthusiasts. They are made to seem like kooks and quaint dingbats who have the nerve to believe that, in an observable universe of trillions upon trillions of stars, and most likely many hundreds of billions of potentially inhabitable planets, some of those planets may have produced life-forms capable of doing things that we can’t do.

On the other hand those who believe in an eternal, all-powerful being, a being who demands to be loved and adored unconditionally and who punishes and rewards according to his whims are thought to be worthy, upright, credible people. This, in spite of the large numbers of believers who are clearly close-minded fanatics.

To my way of thinking, there is every bit as much evidence for the existence of UFOs as there is for the existence of God. Probably far more. At least in the case of UFOs there have been countless taped and filmed---and, by the way unexplained---sightings from all over the world, along with documented radar evidence seen by experienced military and civilian radar operators.

This does not even begin to include the widespread testimony of not only highly trained military and civilian pilots who are selected for their jobs, in part, for their above-average eyesight and mental stability, but also of equally well-trained, experience law-enforcement officers. Such pilots and law-enforcement people are known to be serious, sober individuals who would have quite a bit to lose where they to be associated with anything resembling kooky, outlandish beliefs. Nonetheless, they have taken the risk of revealing their experiences because they are convinced they have seen something objectively real that they consider important.

All of these accounts are ignored by the media.

Granted, the world of UFO-belief has its share of kooks, nuts and fringe people, but have you ever listened to some of these religious true-believers? Have you ever heard of any extreme, bizarre behavior and outlandish claims associated with religious zealots? Could any of them be considered kooks, nuts or dingbats? A fair person would have to say yes.

But the marginal people in these two groups don’t matter in this argument. What matters is the prejudice and superstition built into the media coverage of the two sets of beliefs. One is treated reverently and accepted as received truth, the other is treated laughingly anddismissed out of hand.

As evidence of the above premise, I offer one version of a typical television news story heard each year on the final Friday of Lent:

“Today is Good Friday, observed by Christians worldwide as a day that commemorates the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, whose death redeemed the sins of mankind.”

Here’s the way it should be written:

“today is Good Friday, observed worldwide by Jesus buffs as the day on which the popular, bearded cultural figure, sometimes referred to as The Messiah, was allegedly crucified and---according to legend---died for mankind’s so-called sins. Today kicks off a ‘holy’ weekend that culminates on Easter Sunday, when, it is widely believed, this dead ‘savior’---who also , by the way, claimed to be the son of a sky-welling, invisible being known as God---mysteriously ‘rose from the dead.’

“According to the legend, by volunteering to be killed and actually going through with it, Jesus saved every person who has ever lived---and every person who ever will live---from an eternity of suffering in a fiery region popularly known as hell, providing--- so the story goes---that the person to be ‘saved’ firmly believes this rather fanciful tale.”

That would be an example of unbiased news reporting. Don’t wait around for it to happen. The aliens will land first.

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:
[> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Mom
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:53:00 01/23/05 Sun

Yea for George Carlin. I've been wanting to read that book. He's been on several talk shows about it and he is, as usual, cynically funny.

I post these quotes because I think discussion (not arguing) is fun. And because they reflect a lot of what I believe. I admit that the God I believe in isn't provable, other than in my own knowing. But, also, the God I believe in is not some Old Man dispensing justice according to his own judgment. Nor is he the being that desires praise and worship. Ii believe that he ( or she, if you want to be politically correct) loves all life on this planet (and on other planets) unconditionally and needs nothing from us. If we want it, we can be connected to him and then are provided support, comfort, guidance, etc. In other words what we need we will receive. Making the connection is the hard part - and I know you will say it shouldn't be - but there is no interference in a person's life if that person doesn't want it. And there is no hell as portrayed in the Bible. The hell is right here on earth and plenty of people suffer in it that there doesn't have to be one afterward. That's what I believe. Because I have received the above mentioned benefits, I'd like to share them with my kids and grandkids. Also, since I don't believe in original sin, I don't think Jesus died for us. Perhaps he was born to show us how to live in harmony with each other, and that connection I mentioned was stronger with him, so he could do what looked like miracles. But I don't follow the standard christian beliefs.

But I'm not bible-pounding and I don't believe in prosyletizing. Rather, spirituality is part of my being and anyone who wants to know me is going to get some of my philosophy. Only because I can't be any other way, not because I think I am right and no one else is.

Whew, enough. I'm glad you posted. Let's get some kind of a dialogue going. We could all discuss your childhoods, down on the farm, and how those experiences shaped you. Whatever, I just would like to get some discussion going.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Beth
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 12:39:39 01/23/05 Sun

Pish posh, you're all wrong.

Just kidding, I'm not getting that started again. I just can't get into anything deep lately, which is why I post inane Wayne's World quotes. Mom, lighten up!

I can appreciate the Carlin humor, but I don't agree with him. So are we just laughing at his point of view or taking it seriously? I'm not going to put any time into a debate if we're just having fun here.

I looked up some quotes on life, since I can't think of any, and found a few that I like:

"Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious."
(Brendan Gill)

"The purpose of life is to fight maturity."
(Dick Werthimer)

"Life is a sexually transmitted disease."
(RD Laing)

"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans"
(John Lennon)

Then I did a random quote search and came up with this:

"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know."
(Ralph Waldo Emerson)

So tell me what you know, and next time I'll tell you what I know, and we'll all agree that we're all wrong. =)

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Katy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:48:56 01/23/05 Sun

Well I like this thread. So far it's been interesting and fun. I DO want them to be fun, otherwise it's NO fun and then I don't want to be here. And interesting is good too. Phil you should post more often then it would be more entertaining because then there would be more posting, more dialogue, more...more everything. So Post dammit. Beth how can you not agree with Carlin, he's so right. There have to be so many more instances where we basically accept or have certain ways of thinking of a topic because it has been presented to us in a certain way our whole lives. We should probably all go to India with Haley to have our consciousness' refitted. ANYWAY, I went looking for some appropriate quotes since my mind is more a sieve, rather than the steel trap Beth's is (I was sure you had to look that quote up).This is what I came up with...

I believe in making the world safe for our children, but not our children's children, because I don't think children should be having sex
--Jack Handey Deep Thoughts (Saturday Night Live - NBC)

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you'll be a mile from them, and you'll have their shoes.
--Jack Handey Deep Thoughts

I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it.
--Jack Handy Deep Thoughts

Maybe in order to understand mankind we have to look at that word itself. MANKIND. Basically, it's made up of two separate words "mank"and "ind." What do these words mean? It's a mystery and that's why so is mankind.
--Jack Handy Deep Thoughts

If you go flying back through time and you see somebody else flying forward into the future, it's probably best to avoid eye contact.
--Jack Handy Deep Thoughts

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.
--Jack Handy Deep Thoughts

Whenever you read a good book, it's like the author is right there, in the room talking to you, which is why I don't like to read good books.
--Jack Handy Deep Thoughts

OK so I got stuck on Jack Handy. And now you are too :-p

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Mom
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:12:04 01/23/05 Sun

I know, I got into a rant there and didn't know when to stop. Sorry! I like your quotes, Beth, they are some I haven't seen before. But I'm confused. . . .you won't put any time into a debate if we're just having fun, but you are not up to debating deep subjects. I know what you mean, I'm funnin' you.

Amyway, good quotes. Anyone got anymore?

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Mom
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:06:26 01/23/05 Sun

Okay, I'll try to keep my religion to myself - actually, I don't have a religion, as all of you know. I just have beliefs and they are my beliefs, not anyone else's.

However, George Carlin is right on the money with his diatribe about the ten commandments. Hit the nail right on the head, especially the part about not killing. He can make most serious subjects funny but takes an honest look at how things really are. I like George, let's get HIM for president. I bet he'd make a good one, but I doubt Washington could stand his take on things. And I know he wouldn't/couldn't take the punishment.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Philip Zuvanich
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:45:06 01/23/05 Sun

As it happens... along the same lines, from George Carlin again...

Actually I think this is just for fun, but it's also pretty true, so it's also for serious discussion. I think George Carlin is serious in a lot of what he says, but why shouldn't you have some fun with such things... I intend to have as good a time as I can while discussing deep and important things.


THE TWO COMMANDMANTS

I have a problem with the Ten Commandments. Here it is: Why are there ten? We don’t need that many. I think the list of commandments was deliberately and artificially inflated to get it up to ten. It’s clearly a padded list.

Here’s how it happened: About five thousand years ago, a bunch of religious and political hustlers got together to figure out how they could control people and keep them in line. They knew people were basically stupid and would believe anything they were told, so these guys announced that God---God personally---had given one of them a list of ten commandments that he wanted everyone to follow. They claimed the whole thing took place on a mountain top, when no one else was around.

But let me ask you something: When these guys were sittin’ around the tent makin’ all this up, why did they pick ten? Why ten? Why not nine, or eleven? I’ll tell you why. Because ten sounds important. Ten sounds official. They knew if they tried eleven, people wouldn’t take them seriously. People would say, “What’re you kiddin’ me? The eleven commandments? Get the fuck outta here!”

But ten! Ten sounds important. Ten is the basis for the decimal system; it’s a decade. It’s a psychologically satisfying number: the top ten; the ten most wanted; the ten best-dressed. So deciding on ten commandments was clearly a marketing decision. And its’ obviously a bullshit list. In truth it’s a political document, artificially inflated to sell better.

I’m going to show you how you can reduce the number of commandments and come up with a list that’s a bit more logical and realistic. We’ll start with the first three, and I’ll use the Roman catholic version because those are the ones I was fed as a little boy.

I AM THE LORD THY GOD, THOU SHALT NOT HAVE STRANGE GODS BEFORE ME.

THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN.

THOU SHALT KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH.

Okay, right off the bat, the first three commandments---pure bullshit. “Sabbath day,” “Lord’s name,” “strange gods.” Spooky language. Spooky language designed to scare and control primitive people. In no way does superstitious mumbo jumbo like this apply to the lives of intelligent, civilized humans in the twenty-first century. You throw out the first three commandments, and you’re down to seven.

HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER.

This commandment is about obedience and respect for authority; in other words it’s simply a device for controlling people. The truth is, obedience and respect should not be granted automatically. They should be earned. They should be based on the parents’ (or the authority figure’s) performance. Some parents deserve respect. Most of them don’t. Period. We’re down to six.

Now, in the interest of logic---something religion has a really hard time with---I’m going to skip around the list a little bit:

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL.

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS.

Stealing and lying. Actually, when you think about it, these two commandments cover the same sort of behavior; dishonesty. Stealing and lying. So we don’t need two of them. Instead, we combine these two and call it “Thou shalt not be dishonest.” Suddenly we’re down to five.

And as long as we’re combining commandments I have two others that belong together:

THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTRY.

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBORS WIFE.

Once again, these two prohibit the same sort of behavior; in this case, marital infidelity. The difference between them is that coveting takes place in the mind. And I don’t think you should outlaw fantasizing about someone else’s wife, otherwise what’s a guy gonna think about when he’s flogging his dong?

But marital fidelity is a good idea, so I suggest we keep the idea and call this commandment “Thou shalt not be unfaithful.” Suddenly we’re down to four.

And when you think about it further, honesty and fidelity are actually parts of the same overall value. So, in truth, we could combine the two honesty commandments with two fidelity commandments, and, using positive language instead of negative, call the whole thing “Thou shalt always be honest and faithful.” And now we’re down to three.

THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR’S GOODS.

This one is just plain stupid. Coveting your neighbor’s goods is what keeps the economy going: Your neighbor gets a vibrator that plays “O Come All Ye Faithful,” you want to get one, too. Coveting creates jobs. Leave it alone.

You throw out coveting and you’re down to two now: the big, combined honesty/fidelity commandment, and the one we haven’t mentioned yet:

THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

Murder. The Fifth Commandment. But, if you give it a little thought, you realize that religion has never really had a problem with murder. Not really. More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason.

To cite a few examples, just think about Irish history, the Middle East, the Crusades, the Inquisition, our own abortion-doctor killings and, yes the World Trade Center to see how seriously religious people take Thou Shalt Not Kill. Apparently, to religious folks---especially the truly devout---murder is negotiable. It just depends on who’s doing the killing and who’d getting killed.

And so, with all of this in mind, folks, I offer you my revised list of the Two Commandments:

First”

THOU SHALT ALWAYS BE HONEST AND FAITHFUL, ESPECIALLY TO THE PROVIDER OF THY NOOKIE.

And second:

THOU SHALT TRY REAL HARD NOT TO KILL ANYONE, UNLESS, OF COURSE THEY PRAY TO A DIFFERENT INVISIBLE AVENGER THAN THE ONE YOU PRAY TO.

Two is all you need, folks. Moses could have carried them down the hill in his pocket. And if we had a list like that, I wouldn’t mind that brilliant judge in Alabama displaying it prominently in his courthouse lobby. As long as he included one additional commandment:

THOU SHALT KEEP THY RELIGION TO THYSELF!!!

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Katy
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 02:00:35 01/26/05 Wed

Amen!

And now, it's very late so this is my contribution since no one else has posted.

Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.
--Albert Einstein

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
michael
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 18:31:24 01/26/05 Wed

"Well its funny you should ask that, because I've just been reading a great big book about how to put your budgie down, and apparently you can either hit them with the book, or you can shoot them just there, just above the beak."

--burying the cat, Monty Python's Flying Circus

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
michael
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 13:01:21 01/31/05 Mon

cricket sounds....
______________

If you understand, things are just as they are...
If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
- Zen Saying
______________

To act with understanding is to have a possibility of correct action. To act without understanding is to have no possibility of correct action.
- Michael
______________

People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
______________

And here is the origin of the "shades of gray" philosophy of not reaching conclusions.
- Michael

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Beth
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 16:15:12 02/03/05 Thu

Good quotes.

"If you do it you’ll regret it, if you don’t do it you’ll regret it, either way your going to regret it, you might as well just do it."

I like this one, but then again I don't:

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not. Nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not. Unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not. The world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence, determination and hard work make the difference." -- Calvin Coolidge

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Edie
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 20:11:01 02/04/05 Fri

What don't you like about that quote, Beth?

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Philip Zuvanich
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 18:03:00 02/05/05 Sat

Yeah Beth, why do you and why don't you, and which quote do you not like? The one previous to your comment, or following?

I suspect it's the following one because it says you gotta work hard, and you don't like that right? ;~)

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Beth
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 17:41:20 02/06/05 Sun

Yeah, it's that hard work and persistence thing that I don't like; I'm not good at that. I mean I don't mind working hard, but I don't take rejection well, so being persistent is where I have problems. You hear stories about how a guy sends a manuscript to so many publishers and gets rejected a gazillion times and then finally finds one who likes the story . . . yadda, yadda, yadda, and it gets published. I don't think I could do that.

I was going to ramble on some more, but I gotta go.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
michael
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 02:15:19 02/13/05 Sun

"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." Yoda

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
michael
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 11:14:07 02/20/05 Sun

I saw a tag line on a political forum:

VENI, VIDI, VELCRO
"I came, I saw, I stuck around."

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Mom
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 14:22:03 02/25/05 Fri

More quotes from "What the Bleep Do We Know". What say you, Group W, to thses?

The power of Thought, the magic of the Mind!
- Lord Byron

You cannot see anything that you do not first contemplate as a reality. - Ramtha

The greatest discovery of my generation is that a human being can alter his life by altering his attitudes.
- William James

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Philip Zuvanich
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 08:34:02 02/27/05 Sun

Just my kneejerk reaction, but I object to the one by this Ramtha character. When did he say it? It may have been true once. Some things that come out of peoples imaginations is pretty far from any reality.

Oh sorry, for a minute there my mind blocked out the whole religious crowd, who think their religions are reality. From that viewpoint I can see how you could think so. ;~)

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Beth
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 15:59:47 02/27/05 Sun

Haha, so funny.

People imagine dragons, but did they ever really exist? I think most non-crazy people would say no. But ask a majority of people (who haven't ever seen God) if he exists and they'll say yes.

You non-religious people who only believe what you can see are limiting yourselves to a very small, ugly reality.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
michael
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 16:47:22 02/28/05 Mon

I ain't no holy roller as you all well know but as to the difference between dragons and God, when I see some evidence of dragons (bones, tracks, etc) I'm likely to believe in dragons. I think the world in all its complexity and variation as well as the rest of the universe constitute evidence that there is some kind of a Maker puttin' this stuff together. I might reconsider that opinion when I see a naturally occurring jigsaw puzzle tree that bears fruit consisting of thousand piece jigsaw puzzles of famous architecture, shrink-wrapped and marked for sale.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
Mom
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 22:49:01 03/02/05 Wed

I have to agree with Beth's last statement, although, as you all know, she and I don't agree on many things regarding this particular subject. This is another subject I am tired of defending. I KNOW what I know and I'm not going to change anyone's mind and no one is going to change mine, so I'm not arguing this subject anymore either.

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]
[> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Sayings from What the Bleep Do We Know


Author:
michael
[ Edit | View ]

Date Posted: 09:26:13 03/10/05 Thu

"You cannot stay on the summit forever. You have to come down again.... One climbs and one sees; One descends and one sees no longer, but one has seen. There is an art of conducting oneself... by the memory of what one saw higher up. When one no longer sees, onc can still know."

Rene Daumal

[ Post a Reply to This Message ]


Post a message:
This forum requires an account to post.
[ Create Account ]
[ Login ]

Forum timezone: GMT-6
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.