Revelation 1:1 -- The Apostolic Defender Board

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Date Posted: 11:57:16 10/05/02 Sat
Author: PFP
Subject: Revelation 1:1

From the "Answering Preterism" section of this website:

"Here is Revelation 1:1-3, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."
Now, the verse states that the time for the fulfillment of these things is at hand. Who is saying these things are at hand? Man? No. God Himself, Jesus Christ, is saying these things are at hand. Now, to man, "at hand" means immediate, but let us look at God's time table.
2Peter 3:8, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."
In God's time table, 1000 years is as a day. This is a current truth, not a time table of the future when we are with Him in eternity, but is right now. God's time table is not as ours, but is His own. Here is another thing to consider.
Isaiah 55:8-9, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
Here is a verse of scripture showing that God's ways are not our ways. When God speaks, man has a tendancy to think in fleshly terms. Not sinful terms, but fleshly terms, and when we do so, we miss Him. He is not us, nor does He think as we do. He came down, robed Himself as a Man, but He was still God.
Numbers 23:19, "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?"
Here is scripture, non-twisted, just straightforward."

PFP's reply:
Can God tell time? not to the futurist, but what does the Bible say?

Whenever the Full Preterist view of eschatology is first considered, there is always one thing that stands out in its presentation the imminent return of Christ in the first century. That is, the time statements that indicate His coming to the first century generation. With that said, however, as we have seen above, the first line of argument against the time statements is 2 Peter 3:8-9.

So the question then is, "Did Peter intend for these statements to be used as a formula for interpreting prophetic time?" That is to say, when we see prophetic time statements in Scripture, are we to use 2 Peter 3:8-9 as a formula to determine when the prophesied events are to take place? The futurist says, "Yes." Our purpose, therefore, is to comare the futurist�s interpretation with a few prophetic passages and then to do a minor exegesis of 2 Peter 3. So, let�s put this interpretation and application of 2 Peter 3:8-9 to test and see if the futurist�s interpretation is justified.

Our first reference is Genesis 7:1-4. There, God told Noah:

"Enter the ark, you and all your household; for you alone I have seen to be righteous before Me in this time [generation]. You shall take with you of ever clean animal by sevens, a male and his female; and of the animals that are not clean two, a male and his female; also of the birds of the sky, by sevens, male and female, to keep offspring alive on the face of all the earth. For after seven more days, I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will blot our from the face of the land every living thing that I have made."

There are several things in this passage that should be noted. First, this is a prophecy of judgment. Secondly, God declared when the judgment, i.e., the rain, would start. Thirdly, He stated how long the rain would last. Fourthly, God spoke this to Noah, a man trapped in time. God was very specific as to when the rain would begin and to how long it would last. God told Noah that after seven days it would rain for forty days and nights. Now, our first question regarding this passage is not how we should interpret what God said, but how would Noah interpret what God said. Would he understand that God was outside time? That is to say, the references that God made concerning when the judgment would come were to be measured by how time relates to God? Applying the futurist�s interpretation of 2 Peter 3:8-9 to this passage, was God telling Noah that after 7,000 years it would begin to rain and once it started raining, it would continue for 40,000 years? Or should the plain, everyday definitions of the terms be understood? We find our answer in verse�s 10 and 12:

"And it came about after the seven days, that the water of the flood came upon the earth And the rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights."

Here, just a few short verses later, we have the fulfillment of that prophecy. This shows us that God meant exactly what He said to Noah. Seven days equaled seven days. Forty days and nights equaled forty days and nights. This reference is of great importance so let�s keep it in mind for we will come back to it later, if the Lord wills.

Our next passage for examination is found in Exodus 9:1-5. There, it is written:

"Then the Lord said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh and speak to him, �Thus says the Lord, the God of the Hebrews, "Let My people go, that they may serve Me. For if you refuse to let them go, and continue to hold them, behold the hand of the Lord will come with a very severe pestilence on your livestock which are in the field, on the horses, on the donkeys, on the camels, on the herds, and on the flocks. But the Lord will make a distinction between the livestock of Israel and the livestock of Egypt, so that nothing will die of all that belongs to the sons of Israel." � " And the Lord set a definite time saying, "Tomorrow the Lord will do this thing in the land."

In this passage, God is more specific about when this plague would befall the Egyptians. The text stated that "The Lord set a definite time." It seems to indicate that God put an expiration date, if you please, on His mercy. When was that expiration date? The text states "Tomorrow." Here, again, is a prophecy concerning judgment. It contains a specific time statement "Tomorrow." It was a prophecy given to a specific person in history. However, even though there are similar elements in this passage to the one before it, there is something different. Pharaoh. Pharaoh is different because he was a man outside the covenant of God. A Gentile. Now our question is, "How would Pharaoh, a non-covenant Gentile, understand the term �tomorrow?� " Would he understand that it would be fulfilled the following day, or if we apply the futurist�s interpretation of 2 Peter 3, was Moses actually telling him that God would destroy all the livestock of the Egyptians around a thousand years from when this prophecy was given? Verse 6 gives us our answer. It reads:

"So the Lord did this thing on the morrow, and all the livestock of Egypt died; but the livestock of the sons of Israel, not one died."

Once again we see that not only was the "how" part of the prophecy fulfilled (the death of the Egyptian livestock), but the "when" part of it was fulfilled as well (they all died the following day). God declared that He would kill all the livestock of the Egyptians on the following day, and He did just that.

For out next passage, let�s look at Exodus 11:4-5. There it is written:

"And Moses said, "Thus says the Lord, �About midnight I am going out into the midst of Egypt, and all the first-born in the land of Egypt shall die, from the first-born of the Pharaoh who sits on his throne, even to the first-born of the slave girl who is behind the millstones; all the first-born of the cattle as well."

In these verse�s we have the same elements as the previous examples. 1) This was a prophecy of judgment. 2) It was given to a man trapped in time. 3) It had a specific time statement concerning it�s fulfillment. In this passage God is even more specific as to when this prophecy would be fulfilled. He said that He would kill all the firstborn of Egypt "about midnight." But let�s use 2 Peter 3 again and see if this is the right way to interpret prophetic time. Now if Moses gave this prophecy around 6:00 a.m., was he stating that God would kill the firstborn of Egypt about 750 years later? Well, let�s see. In chapter 12 and verse 29, it is written:

"Now it came to about at midnight that the Lord struck all the first-born in the land of Egypt."

Once again, God gave a specific time statement when judgment would fall, and He fulfilled it when He said He would.

Our last examples will be a series of passages relating to the same prophetic event the Babylonian captivity.

Jeremiah 25:11. And this whole land shall be a desolation and a horror, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years.

Jeremiah 29:10. For thus says the Lord, "When seventy years have been completed for Babylon, I will visit you and fulfill My good word to you, to bring you back to this place."

2 Chronicles 36:20-21. And those who escaped from the sword he carried away to Babylon, and they were servants to him and to his sons until the rule of the kingdom of Persia, to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had enjoyed its sabbaths. All the days of its desolation it kept sabbath until seventy years were complete.

Once again we have the same elements in these passages as we had in the preceding ones. 1) This was a prophecy of judgment. 2) It was given to men trapped in time. 3) It had a specific time statement concerning it�s fulfillment. God spoke through Jeremiah to the nation of Israel that they would be in bondage for seventy years. Now if the futurist�s interpretation of 2 Peter 3:8-9 is applied to these passages, then the nation of Israel would be in bondage approximately 25,550,000 years! But is this an accurate interpretation? Daniel didn�t think so. For in Daniel 9:1-2, it is written:

"In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasureus, of Median descent, who was made king over the kingdom of the Chaldeans in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, observed in the books the number of the years which was revealed as the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years."

The King James Version states that Daniel "understood the number of years." What interpretive hermeneutic did Daniel use to understand the number of years? the futurist�s interpretation of 2 Peter 3:8-9, or the plain meaning of the phrase "seventy years?" Obviously, the plain, everyday meaning of the phrase. This alone should answer any question and settle any debate as to how to properly interpret the time statements of Biblical prophecy. However, as if this alone wasn�t enough, God gave us another proof: history. In 2 Chronicles 36:20-21, God said that the nation of Israel would be in bondage "until the reign of the kingdom of Persian." History teaches us that Persia came into power in 536 BC at the over throw of the Babylonian Empire. History also teaches us that Israel was in bondage to Babylon from 606 BC until their over throw by Persia in 536 BC. That equates to exactly seventy years.

To recap, we have gone from "seventy years," to "forty days and nights," to "seven days," to "tomorrow," to "midnight," and in each case, God fulfilled His word EXACTLY WHEN He said He would. This also brings up a very important point. God is the One who fulfills His word. Consider the following verses:

Isaiah 46:9-11.
"Remember the former things long past, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, "My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure; calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of My purpose from a far county. Truly I have spoken; truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, surely I will do it."

Isaiah 55:10-11.
"For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return there without watering the earth, and making it bear and sprout, and furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so shall My word be which goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it."

Notice that these passages carry a prophetic implication. God stated that He would speak, declare, or purpose something before it took place, and that He would bring it to pass. He would send out His word and it shall accomplish what He desires. He would speak and bring it to pass. This includes when those things were to be fulfilled. In all of our examples, we saw that every part of the prophecies was fulfilled. There was not one part left unfulfilled. They were all fulfilled how and when God said He would fulfill them. This should show us the importance God places on His word. Not only on the how part of His word, but the when part of it as well. God stated that when He speaks something, He will bring it to pass. Not maybe. Not sometime down the road. But, just like we saw, every part of the prophecy, i.e., the "how," the "why," and the "when," it will all be fulfilled. God declared that His word "shall not return to [Him] "empty." If a prophecy is not fulfilled when God said He would fulfill it, then it would return to Him empty.

The timing of the prophecy is just as important as the events of the prophecy.

Think about that for a moment. What purpose would it serve if God gave a specific prophecy of judgment to a wicked nation, telling them that He would fulfill it within a specific time frame, and warned those people of the coming judgment, if the time passages (and the whole prophecy itself for that matter) were actually for some other generation of people? What purpose would the warnings serve the nation to whom it was originally given? To be quite honest, it wouldn�t serve any purpose at all. How would that nation interpret the character and nature of God? That is to say, how would those people view God if He swore that He would judge them at a certain time, and then He didn�t follow through with His judgment? What would they think of God? That He can�t be trusted? That He speaks empty words and threats? That He lied?

Lastly, let�s look at a passage that has tremendous relevance to the subject at hand. In Ezekiel 12:21-28, it is written:

"Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, "Son of man, what is this proverb you people have concerning the land of Israel, saying, �The days are long and every vision fails?� Therefore say to them, �Thus says the Lord God, "I will make this proverb cease so that they will no longer use it as a proverb in Israel." But tell them, "The days a draw near as well as the fulfillment of every vision. For there will no longer be any false vision or flattering divination within the house of Israel. For I the Lord shall speak, and whatever word I speak will be performed. It will no longer be delayed, for in you days, O rebellious house, I shall speak the word and perform it," declares the Lord God.� " Furthermore, the word of the Lord came to me saying, "Son of man, behold, the house of Israel is saying, �The vision that he sees is for many years from now, and he prophesies of times far off.� Therefore say to them, �Thus says the Lord God, "None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed," � " declares the Lord God."

In this passage the nation of Israel said that the time statements of God�s word were irrelevant. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE FUTURIST CLAIMS ABOUT THE TIME STATEMENTS CONCERNING THE RETURN OF CHRIST IN THE FIRST CENTURY!!They say, just like Israel, "Those passages were not for the original audience but were �for many years from now� and for �times far off.� " But notice what God thinks about that kind of hermeneutic. God said, "None of My words will be delayed any longer. Whatever word I speak will be performed." He stated that He would say the word and He would perform it. Again, notice the implication of that statement. God Himself fulfills His word. When we try and mis-use 2 Peter 3:8-9 as a formula to interpret prophetic time, i.e., that the imminent time statements in the New Testament concerning Christ�s return in the first century are really "for many years from now," i.e., our time, we are saying that God will not fulfill His word! So the real issue here is not just differences of interpretation concerning eschatology, but the nature and character of God. If the futurist is correct in his interpretation and application of 2 Peter 3 (and he is not), then God is made out to be a liar because He will not fulfill His word when He said He would. Plain and simple. If the futurist is correct, then we might as well be atheists because God Himself cannot even be trusted, and then we are lost. Why? Because, if God is dishonest concerning when He would fulfill His word, how do we know He was honest concerning the doctrines of Grace? Or anything else for that matter? It�s simple. We don�t. So, again, this is much more than just a difference of interpretation. Our salvation depends on God keeping EVERY ASPECT of His word. Including WHEN He was to fulfill it.

Shortly means Shortly.

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