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Date Posted: 15:17:54 11/04/08 Tue
Author: David Lake
Subject: Re: Proof of Concept
In reply to: Carlos Tomas 's message, "Re: Proof of Concept" on 09:38:51 11/04/08 Tue

Carlos,

I am not sure that I understand your question about "scientifically derived data". It is a simple fact that an iron with a loft angle of 35º will hit the ball farther than an iron with a 39º loft angle (all else being equal).

We do not publish the results of our fifteen years of research and testing because it is proprietary information. However, if you were to ask your question about distance on this forum I am sure that many 1 Iron players will provide responses.

David Lake

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Replies:

[> [> [> [> Re: Proof of Concept -- Carlos Tomas, 07:28:36 11/05/08 Wed

There's nothing like cold, hard facts to silence critics. You make some bold claims. And claims require proof. You're going against the strong tide of conventional golf. The entirety of the global golf industry is geared towards conventional equipment and instruction. The mere mention of any club or system that can improves one's swing or lower scores is met with the severest of skepticism. While you might not be able to do much to improve someone's swing, you could provide evidence that your clubs are designed to perform to certain criteria, rather than just talk about it like you do on your site.

If it were my company, I'd publish a table of distance deltas with loft being the only variable, and using a commonly used commercially available shaft of conventional 1/2 inch increment lengths. To make sure each club was swung the same way and with the same level of effort, I'd use Iron Byron or some other swing robot. Then I'd add your tuned shaft and repeat the same distance delta table. This would provide definitive proof of your basic fundamental principles, that:

1. Loft is the key ingredient in distance
2. Your shafts are better than commercial ones
3. Conventional 1/2 inch increment shaft lengths add little or nothing to distance

Armed with this information, recreational golfers (that is your target market, right?) would be more apt to find credence in the rest of your arguments, and envision the promise that your equipment might bring to their game.

Another thing I'd do is feature recreational golfers who by using your equipment actually have provably improved their game. Seeing a weekend duffer like themselves scoring better and having more fun could go a long way towards convincing skeptics to give your equipment and system a try.

You might start by featuring yourself and how inventing and designing your equipment improved your game. Then pick someone from the forum, or other person who has just purchased your clubs, and track their progress.


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Proof of Concept -- David Lake, 08:00:54 11/05/08 Wed

Carlos,

Your points are well taken and is why we created this golf forum. Our forum dates back to 2002 (including the archived pages) and contains hundreds of testimonials from our customers addressing all of the issues that you mention.

As we state on our website, single-length golf clubs are not new to the golf industry by any means. Tommy Armour introduced a set in 1986 (EQLs) that were developed and designed by two of the leading golf club designers in the industry: John Hoeflich and Tim Reed. John is currently the Vice President of Nickent Golf and Tim Reed is the Vice President of Adams Golf. The vast reputations of these two individuals should make it clear to anyone of the credibility of a single-length system.

The following link is to a Single-Length topic on the FGI forum that is 33 pages long and is one you may find interesting: http://www.freegolfinfo.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=671031&mpage=1

David Lake


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[> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Proof of Concept -- Carlos Tomas, 07:47:03 11/06/08 Thu

David,

Thanks again for your response. I've been digging through the forum archives, but I wonder how many others would be willing to do this. The pressure to stay with conventional equipment is enormous, and I think that if you had a few case studies readily available at your main web site it might just sway enough people to give your system and equipment a try, rather than making them sift through hundreds, maybe even thousands, of posts.

While Joe Hoeflich and Tim Reed may have been involved with single-length equipment before, and may be highly respected in the industry, neither Nickent nor Adams currently have single-length equipment offerings. The initial reaction is that they gave it try once, but for some reason it failed, and now they've gone back to conventional equipment design. I don't see where this lends credibility. Perhaps you could get an endorsement from one or both of them.

The point I'm trying to make is that you could be doing more to prove (and debunk) the benefits of your equipment and system. Profiling successful users and making supporting data easily available would go a long way towards that end.

All the above said, your arguments make sense, and I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of your book. Just yesterday I had a golf lesson and broached the subject of equal length clubs. The idea was dismissed out of hand by the pro, a PGA class A instructor. He says that loft alone is not enough, and that it's a combination of shaft flex, shaft length, together with loft that are the main factors contributing to distance, and that each of these 3 factors contributed almost equal amounts. See what you're up against? There's a lot of myths and misinformation out there.


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[> [> [> [> [> [> [> Re: Proof of Concept -- pete, 17:49:16 11/06/08 Thu

I work at a golf shop part time and work with 2 teaching pros, Understand that being a pro does not mean they are club builders and understand all of the nuancess of club building and fitting. They are the pros and they cant touch what I know about fitting and building clubs. most of the time they ask me for my advice. The answer is who cares what the industry thinks. Most of the time for my shame I am forced to sell clubs that I know wont improve my customers scores. But because of the strong marketing
customers will buy. I do however try to do my best in fitting and selecting at least the right set of clubs that will at least give them a fighting chance for what we offer.

The question That you may want to ask yourself is do these clubs work for you? Just for you information and I am a master club fitter. Clubs today have way too much bounce and the center of gravity is way too low. Too much perimeter weighing. So when you get those 800.00 Os irons the newest and baddest. You know the ones you buy to get more distance and more height and help with the slice?. I will be waiting for you to trade them in so I can give you a fraction of what you paid for in trade so I can sell you another 800.00 set. I am not angry I just speak the truth.

Happy golfing to all...


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[> [> [> [> [> Re: Proof of Concept -- John Serna, 08:32:46 11/11/08 Tue

Want proof...the proof is in the trying (risk free by the way). I purchased a set and used them exclusively this season...they worked so well I just gave my other clubs away. One thing that doesn't concern me now is using a club that I'm not comfortable with...they all pretty much feel and play the same. As far as distance goes, club for club, my 1-Irons keep up with my buddies. Here's the best part...I reduced my handicap by 10 strokes. That's a cold, hard fact!


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