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Date Posted: Thu, 03/27/03 3:23pm
Author: sunny
Subject: Re: Christianity and War .....
In reply to: bowdrill 's message, "Re: Christianity and War ....." on Thu, 03/27/03 7:59am

>>..... so a 'realized' being hasn't "become" god,
>>they've merely dropped-out of any awareness of
>>separateness or individuality .... sounds really
>>strange, no? a totally different view of what
>>religiousness is and what life is for ...... but
>>immensely meaningful, to me anyway ......
>>
>well it is different really, from ndn ways from the
>past and even now. I have met ndn people that can
>actually heal others, or at least they're the conduits
>that the healing comes through. And those same ndn
>people don't ask for anything but tobacco. They don't
>ask for a fleet of limo's or a throng of followers.
>But they do teach that anybody can access that energy
>if they want to.
>
>It sounds like the "OSHO" had a lot of "personality"
>according to your discription above, i.e., cultivated.
>
>In dineh, the word is yii'niih, which is a word
>that has a long meaning, i.e., that the person knows
>things that are mysterious and from a deeper realm, but
>is relevant to life as we know it here and now. and
>with that knowledge, the person can help with healing
>and or guidance towards living in balance and harmony.
>
>in dineh, the "original experience" is not as you
>describe in OSHO'ism. It seems from your discription
>that OSHO'ism is to gather a following as you become
>more 'realized'. But in dineh ways and other ndn ways
>that I know of, it's not like that. Which is not to
>say that no ndnz do that. You no doubt have heard of
>some 'famous' ndn medicine people. Well, those
>guys are not whom i'm talking about. The onez I'm
>talking about, you have never heard of and probably
>never will.

--------------

Yup, I think you're probably right, that alot of enlightened people may never speak about their experience [in India they're called 'arhata', I think], and certainly don't gather disciples or gifts for personal advancement ..... and personally I don't think Osho/Rajneesh ever did either ..... from what I've read he accepted his first disciple only after having been a wandering teacher for many years, and receiving innumerable requests from those Asking to be initiated by him ..... It was the disciples that gathered the money, created the commune, brought him to the USA, bought the Rolls Royces and the Rolex watches, etc. etc. etc. And what they were saying was "what do you give the man who has Everything???? He sits in silence in his room 20 hours a day, his only enjoyment is his crazy driving and his long, long baths -- so we get him the very best cars, and the very best marble-lined bathroom we can .... what else can we do??"

There's really a whole lot more that he said about it, about being the "rich man's guru", about how pervasive the materialism and greed was in modern culture [in India as well as the US !], and that all the press ever talked about was not his teachings about the "New Man," but the Rolls Royces, and the watches, and how much money was being spent ..... I saw it more as another Zen hit direct to the American ego/greed, but you can interpret it however you see it .....

In the last analysis I'd say Koresh and Jim Jones's followers were asked to die for their beliefs -- did Osho's ?? No, he was the one who was poisoned, and the disciples lived ..... when it could Very Easily have gone the other way in Oregon and later ..... doesn't that say something about the differences between him and the folks you are trying to compare him to ???

I don't think all medicine teachers/healers have the same duties or are called to meet the same challenges ..... and I just think that's a reflection of the huge Mystery they have surrendered themselves to ..... I really don't think you have to choose who is more or less, just who is right for you .... and how that "knowing" comes into your heart is a complete Mystery as well, no?

Bow, I hope you don't think I'm disrespecting your teachers by talking about this man -- thought Ndns would be grateful to know that "wannabees" could rely on another source and didn't need to steal from Ndns .... I've been told over and over that ndn sprirtuality isn't discussed on the internet, and I've tried to be respectful of that -- not get into discussions that would offend, or be way over my head ..... hope I haven't offended you somehow by speaking of my own experiences here .....

peace,
sunny

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