| Subject: Re: another thing for donald on the 144000 |
Author:
Vince
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Date Posted: 09:53:26 06/28/04 Mon
In reply to:
Bunsen
's message, "Re: another thing for donald on the 144000" on 02:12:34 06/27/04 Sun
Hi Bunsen,
You obviousely must know something of Donald as you know that he is a uni student, something I don't think he has mentioned here (as far as I can recall anyway).
You are right in saying that the WT view the 144,000 as a literal number of people who will be in heaven (not an unsepcified number symbolised by the number 144,000 as Donald believes). Was reading this on the subject, from a Watchtower source:
Under the heading "How many go to heaven?" the WT book "You can Live Forever on Paradise Earth" it says:
"...the total number who go to heaven will be small when compared to the many who will receive life on earth under Kingdom rule. Jesus told his disciples: "Have no fear, little flock, because your Father has approved of giving you the kingdom - Luke 12:32.
How small a number will that class of Kingdom rulers be? Will it include only the apostles and other early followers of Jesus? No, the Bible shows that the "little flock" will include more...a hundred and forty four thousand...So rather than all good people going to heaven, the Bible reveals that only 144,000 tried and tested persons will be taken there to rule with Christ." (You can Live Forever on Paradise Earth, p. 124)
Donal's view of the 144,000 possibly being symbolic, and having objections with this number being linked to the "little flock" in Luke, is certainly the more reasonable view in my opinion.
However, the WT Society, as was seen by the example given in the quote above (many more could be cited) leave no room for difference of opinion.
Interestingly enough, JW apologist Greg Stafford, in his book Three Dissertations of Jehovah's Witnesses, actually holds a view similar to Donald (or rather voices his opinion that a possible interpretation of the 144,000 texts could be that they are symbolic). Here is an excerpt I copied out some time back:
"Consider the hypothetical example of how a matter of ultimately minor significance might be viewed if expressed openly during a congregation meeting, or even in private conversation with a few Witness friends.
Jehovah's Witnesses currently teach that the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7 and 14 is a limited group numbered exactly to 144,000. These will share heavenly life with Christ as kings and priests (Revelation 5:9-10). I happen to accept this teaching, and have argued in support of it numerous times (see Jehovah's Witnesses Defended, 2nd ed., pages 527-540). But if someone were to suggest during a congregation meeting (or even amongst a much smaller group of Witnesses elsewhere) that it is possible that the number 144,000 is symbolic for a group who's precise number is not known, even though it is still a limited group that will reign with Christ over the earth, it would not be received well at all. Yet it is possible, in that we are dealing with the highly symbolic book of Revelation where numbers often have a non-literal meaning....
...the reaction such a suggestion would receive in the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses today calls to mind what was written in the third issue of Zion's Watchtower, back in 1879:
Extreme views are held by many on all these and many other points. The seeming opposites are often but different parts of the same great truth. An extremist takes one side of a truth, will not look at any other. He defends himself with the Scriptures, and calls hard names and anathematizes all who cannot see as he does, or who see from the other side ["Keep Balanced", Zion's Watchtower and Herald of Christ's Presence, September, 1879, reprint page 29].
...The point of the above scenario is to illustrate that if one were to suggest the possibility of a slightly different approach to a doctrine, in this case the uncertain number represented by 144,000, but remain essentially true to the heart of the teaching, it would still be unacceptable in a congregational setting. It might be possible, of course, to speculate in private with a few persons, though even this seems to be unlikely in view of the warning against "harboring private ideas" about what the Bible teaches as quoted earlier from August 1, 2001, Watchtower..."
(Greg Stafford Three Dissertations on the Teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses, pp. 47-48).
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