VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

05/15/25 09:27:19 [ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: [1], 2, 3, 4 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 01:18:04 08/23/03 Sat
Author: IDAHO
Subject: Again, nice to see you Superstring, and some thoughts...
In reply to: SuperString01 's message, "Here's What I Believe..." on 20:39:25 08/22/03 Fri

Everyone on this board is pretty much assured that the "great enemy" is thinking machines. Regardless of their personal tastes on the matter, Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson have made it clear in the prequels that the enemy is an "ancient enemy" in the example you have given with Prince Rhombur and the Navigator.
In addition in the Butlerian Jihad, Omnius has sent probes into the far reaches of space with the intention of spreading his intelligence partly as a precaution. If humans win the war against thinking machines, Omnius will still survive, and wait for the precise moment to strike back.

However, in terms of Daniel and Marty, I think that the expansion of the Evermind has to come into play.
First, although you site the fact that Leto II had perfect prescience, I would disagree with that because as you said, he obviously couldn't see those who had the gene of Siona and thus if he was planning for everything, it would have to been in part due to his super mentat capabilities rather than a perfect prescience as in your example with the gas bill.
But then how does this work in with the Super Face dancers? Why does Leto keep the Tleilaxu around?
One answer might be diversity. The diversity of the different abilities: Futars, Bene gesserit, Honored Matres, Sheeana, Super Duncan, Miles Teg... with all those powers and abilities developed, some string of humanity has to survive. The Tleilaxu though inhuman to us, might be the only survivors in a war on Thinking Machines. And they are still closer to human than thinking machines. Of course I don't believe this is the only answer.

You gave a great reason as to why Leto set in motion the development of Fish Speakers and then out of them Honored Matres. The Honored Matres were necessary to counter the forces of the thinking machines.

The creation of Siona and the No-Gene then must have been for a similar purpose. To counter something that this enemy had. Though, Leto wanted to create a future that was free of destiny and prescient vision just for the sake of free will, I doubt he would have done it if in fact prescience was something that could save humanity. But obviously it wasn't because he made sure that people would be invisible to prescience. this makes me believ that the Machines then have prescience.

I agree with you also that his changing of the worms was to ensure that they could survive off of Arrakis. But I think Sheanna's ability to control them has something more to it than just the survival of the worms on different planets.

As far as the Super face dancers, Daniel and Marty are concerned, if they are indeed an entirely new race of being wanting to coexist with humanity, then Leto II set in motion or allowed for their development for a reason. That reason must be that they are integral to the survival of humanity against the Thinking Machine invasion then. In this scenario then, we have to look at the Super Face Dancer capabilities. You said that they could absorb the lives of any individual they chose to mimic and then all their memories and knowledge as well. What if they could then do this with a thinking machine, somehow absorbing a thinking machine's knowledge and life and thus actually creating a sort of hybridization, a union between man and Machine ala Star Trek the Motion Picture? Perhaps that is one way to beat the thinking MAchines, physically absorb them back into the species that created them via the powers of the Super Face Dancers?

Of course this is assuming that they are a product of Leto II's machinations and are in fact on the side of humanity. As I have speculated, if Thinking Machines could gain the powers of Prescience, why couldn't they also gain the powers of Face Dancers, and then in turn Super Face Dancers that actually become the individuals that they mimic. Thinking Machines might also gain the ability of no-ships and no genes for their units. Such a scheme would truly be insidious as living people are actually supplanted by Thinking MAchine face Dancers that absorb their lives and memories and then hide themselves. This is of course unless they can be identified by an individual like Duncan or Miles Teg with their new vision. In this case Daniel and MArty are actually agents of the Thinking Machines and it is Duncan and Miles Teg's visions that will help destroy them. I think this is a plausible theory as well.

That is why I said that Daniel and Amrty are either with humanity or against it. It seems like a complex enigma that only time and patience for the Dune 7 to come out will solve
-IDAHO-

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

Post a message:
This forum requires an account to post.
[ Create Account ]
[ Login ]
Forum timezone: GMT-7
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.