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10/31/25 05:36:53 [ Login ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: [1], 2, 3, 4 ]

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Date Posted: 20:39:25 08/22/03 Fri
Author: SuperString01
Subject: Here's What I Believe...
In reply to: KerrsDune 's message, "Daniel and Marty" on 12:16:47 08/22/03 Fri

KerrsDune-

That's a great question. I don't think there is anybody out there (other than the late Frank Herbert, and perhaps his son Brian Herbert) who can answer that question definitively. What about speculation then? Certainly, and just like every other Dune fan, I have one.

Let’s state the obvious about Daniel and Marty: they were super shape shifters called “Face Dancers” in the book (in accordance with Mr. Herbert’s penchant for imaginative names). One of the things that set Daniel and Marty (hereafter called D&M) apart from other Face Dancers was their total independence. Previous Face Dancers were sterile slaves of their Tlelaxu Masters. However, we are shown in Heretics that if they go too “deep under cover” they would become the person they replace. D&M also explained to us that after absorbing a certain number of memories/personalities they would become “free” and “self serving.” (Who wouldn’t?)

How did they know all of that stuff about Duncan, Sheeana and Chapterhouse? Well, assuming their ability to create a “perfect mimic” of any person of their choosing, they obviously could have infiltrated Chapterhouse Planet and had free roam of the place. Having access to any place on Chapterhouse Planet, they could have learned everything they knew when we heard their conversation with each other.

Couldn’t only the descendents of Siona live on the planet without it being detected by a Guild Navigator (one of the Edrics I believe)? Correct. From this statement we must assume one of two things about D&M: Either the Tlelaxu incorporated Siona genes into the new Super Face Dancers they were breeding (They had ample access to that genetic line since these descendents were present all over the Imperium [this is my preferred explanation]) or, the new Face Dancers could control their metabolism, chemistry and mimicry so perfectly that they would even create “prescient invisibility” at will.

What I believe then is this: the new Super Face Dancers were not “bad”; in fact, I believe that since they “absorbed” so many lives (including everything a Reverend Mother would know… other memories and all!) they were essentially benevolent. Many Dune fans believe that the “great evil” that was chasing the Honored Matres back into the old Imperium were those very Face Dancers (which may very well be true). The fact that they were hunting the Honored Matres was not really a bad thing, though. If the Bene Gesserit had the capabilities I’m certain they would also have been hunting them to extinction.

I believe that the Super Face Dancers really hated the Honored Matres because they (like the Bene Gesserit) saw them as a Roman style empire (an empire that was only stable when it was conquering and invading). As far as their intentions were concerned, I am not sure what to think. I believe, in the end, they would have become a force that allied itself with the Bene Gesserit. Why? I don’t believe that all creatures are good; however I do believe that the new Face Dancers also did not know what to think. The super Face Dancers were a fairly new race (remember, they had only been around for one, maybe two generations during Chapterhouse… certainly not long enough to create an army and attack the Honored Matres). I believe that, being a wise species, the Face Dancers just wanted stability and co-habitability with humans.

I also believe that the God Emperor planned for the new super Face Dancers as well. Why? Remember he was prescient. He saw the “great war” to come. Let’s suppose that the “great enemy” was the super Face Dancers (for argument’s sake). The God Emperor had perfect prescience and could SEE the enemy that would one day invade; therefore, why would the He (who was so DESPERATLY trying to save humanity) not have simply destroyed the Bene Tlelax when he had the chance and rid humanity of that enemy BEFORE it created the terrible beasts that would one day wipe them out! The reason: because they were not only of NO danger to humanity but would become an ally with humanity. The God Emperor had a plan FOR EVERYTHING! They had to play an integral role in the “Golden Path”, and therefore I believe the God Emperor saw the super Face Dancer’s inevitable existence and if THEY WERE the “enemy” then he would have wiped them out.

The Golden Path not only was intended for human beings to spread out over the universe, and their invisibility to prescience; I believe that it also planned for the invasion which was chasing the Honored Matres back in. Since human beings were trapped within a radius of Dune, the population could never expand and thus their numbers were limited. The limiting of a population to a mere “mega trillion” does not, in-and-of-itself, doom a species to extinction (personally I think those are pretty safe numbers). However, if there were an “enemy” out there- growing and planning an invasion and waiting until it were just “strong enough” to strike- then those numbers probably would not be enough.

I believe that the God Emperor planned the Honored Matres (really!) down to the last detail. Remember in Chapterhouse how, after Murbella finally became a Bene Gesserit sister, she revealed that “Fish Speaker democracy became Honored Matre autocracy”? Who made the Fish Speakers? The God Emperor! The God Emperor had perfect prescience… we know that. We also know that the God Emperor gave a reason for choosing women to be his army; however that explanation never sat well with me. You see, Leto II could have ruled a male army just as well (he had perfect prescience; there COULD HAVE BEEN NO DANGER REVOLT). Then why women? Prescience- that’s the answer. He saw EVERYTHING in the future with perfect understanding. What do I mean? This: Leto saw the eminent invasion of the “evil enemy”, he also needed to give humanity a way to save itself and he also knew that the Bene Gesserit would be too small to fight this enemy (they were too selective). Therefore, he also must have seen what his Fish Speakers would have become out in the scattering, the “Anti Bene Gesserit” with more fighting ability than the BG and much of their physical prowess to boot! All they needed was some “Bene Gesserit Basic Training” and they would become the Bene Gesserit army to fight this enemy. Had the “Fish Speakers” been men (would they have been called “Beef Speakers”?) they could have never been “absorbed” into the Bene Gesserit (seeing as how the Bene Gesserit only accept WOMEN… the God Emperor was truly wise)… so we know that the God Emperor had planned for their invasion and incorporation into the Bene Gesserit. It was mentioned that the Honored Matres outnumbered the BG 1000 to 1. Just imagine the strength of the Bene Gesserit AFTER that hybridization!

The God Emperor created The Scattering to breed diversity: Futars, Super Face Dancers, and the Honored Matres (with amazing commando-like abilities), all of whom would one day be the salvation of humanity. The God Emperor saw the rise of the Teg-like abilities and the Tlelaxu creation of the “Super-Duncan.” Though I do not believe that he saw each with his prescient eye (most were invisible to his prescience) he did see their creation nonetheless. The God Emperor was (aside from being prescient) a great strategist, a mega-Mentat (just imagine HIS computational abilities) and an amazingly caring individual. He no more needed prescience to see the creation of all of these “talents” then we need prescience to know that if we don’t pay the electric bill each month the power will get shut off!

Who then was chasing the Honored Matres? In one of the prequels a Guild Navigator was poisoned and accidentally sends a Guild Highliner to the other side of the universe. While there the crew aboard tried to save him but during that time it was mentioned that they had folded way beyond normal space… and the Navigator mumbled something about a “great evil enemy approaching.” This brings up the reason why it could not have been “Super Face Dancers.” Back during the prequels the Super Face Dancers did not exist (not for another 5000 years… unless they could time travel, in which case humanity would be doomed, so why bother fighting… however I don’t believe Frank Herbert was a fan of time travel…so don’t worry.) I believe that (and this is my own assumption) the “great enemy” was remnants of Omnius (the great thinking super machine from the Butlerian Jihad) which had somehow escaped total destruction and fled to the other side of the universe. I believe that they rebuilt and had been planning for 20,000 years, just waiting for the right time. It’s either Omnius or “another intelligence” (a phrase which is also mentioned in the books), which just might be aliens… but I don’t believe that.

Well, I hope this answers your question (and some other’s that you may not even have known you had).

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