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Date Posted: Tue, Jan 22, 05:43:39am CST
Author: Tommy Prince
Author Host/IP: c-69-180-224-203.hsd1.tn.comcast.net / 69.180.224.203
Subject: Re: Just wondering??
In reply to: Dan McD. 's message, "Re: Just wondering??" on Mon, Jan 21, 07:47:05pm CST

>>>>>Just curious... What are folks thoughts on dogs
>bred
>>>>>for coon in the Carolinas or southern swamps vs
>bear
>>>>>bred dogs for Wi. and MN. vs cat dogs for Montana
>>and
>>>>>Idaho. Will they all be bred the same for the same
>>>>>traits, size etc?? Never bear or cat hunted myself.
>>>>>Never hunted in bear or cat country either. But I
>do
>>>>>believe the differnt terrain and game would cause
>>>>>breeders to breed a little different dog than maybe
>>a
>>>>>coon hunter in the midwest. With that said if all
>>>>>these dogs were lets say walkers in the beginning
>>and
>>>>>had bred for generations in these regions for
>>>seperate
>>>>>jobs are they still all the same breed or what? I
>>>>>believe yes but some folks don't seem to think so.
>I
>>>>>really think that a dog bred and raised by a
>>seasoned
>>>>>bear hunter in WA. for generations may differ from
>a
>>>>>dog here in OHIO from the same foundation stock but
>>>>>bred for generations for coon hunting.I know when I
>>>>>was a kid dogs from open country like Kansas and
>>>>>Oklahoma tended to be a good bit bigger than dogs
>>>>>raised here in Ohio and Indiana where live stock
>>>woven
>>>>>wire fences were common.I think a bear bred leopard
>>>in
>>>>>Ca. vs a coon bred leopard here in Ohio are both
>>>>>leopards.
>>>> good point, Perry. Selective breeding can result
>in
>>>>differing dogs, from same pedigrees. Bear bred dogs
>>in
>>>>our area must be powerful hard running dogs that can
>>>>take a lot of punishment from the terrain and long
>>>>hrs. they do not have to be extremly quick locators,
>>>>or have to be lay up dogs, but dogs of this breeding
>>>>can do all this. Bobcat and gray fox dogs must be
>>able
>>>>to push a track and not let the critter rest when it
>>>>plays its tricks, and must also be very good
>locators
>>>>unlike a beardog. Coon dog has to be agood track
>dog,
>>>>and if a hunter wants a really good dog, the dog
>must
>>>>be a lay up and pressure tree dog, and split tree.
>>>>Many of our origanal dogs were good at most of these
>>>>things. My question is; how well will a dog used for
>>>>only for big game, retain the traits needed to
>excell
>>>>as a coon dog over several generations? Also, if
>bred
>>>>for slow trailing , how many generations will they
>>>>retain the heads up, run to catch,mentality? Maybe
>>we
>>>>would have two breeds, but which is a Cur, and which
>>>>is a trail hound? Rex
>>>Rex my opinion we are allredy heading down that trail
>>>with the use of selective breeding for different
>game.
>> dog are very ez to change in the breed in only 3 gen.
>>you can change things alot if you take and breed for
>>that one thing that you want. evolution takes time but
>>with dogs it does not take as long. take the farm
>>raised fox back when they started to raise fox in pins
>>some would bite you and go crazy in the pin. a
>>professor dread only the fox that would not bite when
>>you put your hand in the cage in 3 gen they had pups
>>that would not bite but liked people and the color had
>>changed. so with anybody trying to get something that
>>works for them you are going to change things with in
>>the breed. in the end you can not have a different
>>breed just traits. hmmmmm
>
>I've always thought that it was crazy for guys to pay
>30K for a dog when all of it's ancestors werebred for,
>raised and trained on, and evaluated for breeding for
>hunting coon. That same guy could have gone and
>bought a 5K to 7K cat dog and broke it from cats and
>started running it on coon and had at least as good a
>dog. This is however ignoring all of the marketable
>things that don't actually have to do with ability,
>such as the right look, the right pedigree and the
>right previous owner. At any rate, dogs that are tops
>on cats and gray fox have to come with much more
>talent than a coon dog. If you have hunted with that
>kind of dog, it's easy to see. The very best cat dogs
>that I have been to the woods with have been: 1. A
>grade walker named Rocket. He was the very best from
>truck to tree. 2. A moutnain cur named Pepper that
>became good at cats late in life and is still going
>strong at age 11. 3. A crossbred dog named Camo who,
>as the name implies, is out of Wick's Camo Jug. Her
>mother is a 1/2 border collie and 1/2 Plott. She
>caught more cats on the ground in a row than any dog
>I've ever herd of. She is quite an astounding dog and
>also still alive. Coincedentaly Pepper, the mtn. cur,
>was hunted mostly on coon. She was later bought and
>retrained on cat. So there are exceptions. On the
>other side of things, some of the very best cat dogs
>come out of kennels that never run cats, only coon. I
>don't think it's very easy to make a blanket statement
>on this subject but if I had to put down a bet i would
>go with the statement, They Would Be Different. I
>feel that it has more to do with the breeder though.
Cat dogs. I think that this type of dog is very hard to find let alone have a breeding program that would produce them. Most good bare ground cat hunters that I have seen, use a pack of dogs because one just can't do it with consistency. Snow makes it easier but not easy.

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