| Subject: Regs and Additional |
Author:
Randy Jones
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Date Posted: 04:38:07 04/21/01 Sat
This was sent to me by a friend who works for the D.E.C. I apologize if my wording led you to think it was any different than below. This is how I wrote it.-
They want a 4 foot maximum leader from weight to fly, egg sack.
Date: April 19, 2001
Randy, as I indicated in a earlier e-mail, I asked DEC staff, including
Fran Verdoliva, what was being considered. As I understand it, there is
not yet a "new DEC proposal". What has occurred is there have been
discussions to potentially address three problem areas in the Salmon
River for possible implementation as new DEC regulations to try and
reduce intentional and unintentional snagging of fish. The three
problems identified: (1) floating plugs with treble hooks, (2) weight
below the hook, (3) long leaders or tippet length between weight and
fly/hook.
The recommendations from these discussions include; (1) floating plugs
should go to single hook, (2) weight should not be allowed below the
hook, (3) if weight is added to the leader that the length of the
leader/tippet from the weight to the fly/hook should not exceed 4 feet
(which is the identical regulation currently in effect for the fly
fishing only sections of the Salmon River).
It appears that several responders to your e-mail on this subject may
have misinterpreted the third recommendation to believe there will be a
4 feet restriction on the length of leader or butt section from the
flyline to the fly/hook and that is incorrect. It may be appropriate to
clarify this issue on your web site.
Furthermore if regulations are eventually proposed by DEC to implement
some form of these recommendations, there probably will be a public
meeting(s) and public comment period. Thanks. Jim
Thanks for your help, Jim. If nothing else comes of this at least the powers that be, will have a refreshed idea on what the majority of sportsman want. No
J-plugs, Enforcement, Creel limit.
Best,
Randy
Just gotta lauph!
eggsackk,
I would say that a 6-8 foot leader used in the wrong type of habitat would catch you less fish then a 2 -3 foot tippet. And also just the opposite. Simple
Wow, you saw me personally foul hook and land 3 fish in 10 minutes. How can that be when Im sure if I hooked them, they all had to be 20 plus pd's And on 1
pound test with a size 22 blue wing olive. I suppose you also saw me yanking hard at the end of every drift, throwing the occasional J-plug, throwing 12-20 foot
leaders, pulling fish in backwards, walking the creeks with a net and no rod, having fish tied up to my boat before it was legal time to fish, having more fish on a
stringer than is legally allowed, etc, etc, These all things other guides and anglers have posted about me and your post is no different. The longest leader I will throw
is 8 feet, so please don't go that route. Any longer and it just does not make sense! I also throw 2 1/2 -3 ft., 3 1/2-4 ft.leaders, etc but Im sure you would prefer to
not know that so that your lame post has more merit?
.
The game-You saw me, I saw you, gets pretty old after awhile. Especially when posted by nameless people who can say what they want with no repercussions. Its
funny, but I have noticed some new names on this board, that just popped up. Hmmm. Could be some more of my guide friends that would rather see me flip my
boat and drown then shake my hand and congratulate me on my successes as one of the busiest guides up here. Being jealous must be tuff.
Your post might hold more merit if you would validate it with your real name. Just a thought. I'm proud and stand behind what I say, by validating it with my real
name.
Here is what I stand for.
1. C and R
2. 1 fish limit
3. Enforcement of the laws that are on the books and any that are added.
4. Outlaw J-plugs on the river totally.
5. If a leader law was enacted I would be in favor of a 2-8 foot leader.
Just about any species of fish, anywhere in the world is easier to catch when disguising what your lure, bait or fly is tied to. Having guided for 20 years for many
different species of fish, I have a very clear and precise understanding of the above statement, especially when it relates to educated fish.
Disguising what your fly, bait is tied to is done in two ways. Lengthening it - to separate your main line, weight form your fly, bait, lure or by thinning the diameter of
your florocarbon-mono leader. I change my leader length and diameter numerous times through out the day depending on the following simple equation.
1. Fast, turbulent, off color water, uneducated fish (lower river), or a short drift (pockets) equals a shorter - heavier pound test leader.(2-3 feet) In this equation the
fish's visual cone is small and main line and weight are not a critical factor.
2. Slow, deep, clear water, educated fish and a longer drift equals a longer leader (6-8 feet) and also a smaller diameter leader. In this equation the fish's visual cone
is so large that weight and main line become a critical factor and need to be disguised.
Sincerely,
Randy Jones
Randy hi, my name is Ed and I am from Buffalo New York. Like
yourself I am a addict to the beloved STEELHEAD! I have a question
for you. I noticed in one of your posts
that your support a 1 fish limit. I for one would love it if the
state will change the daily creel for steelhead and trout to ONE.
Seeing you have quite a bit of contact with the DEC do you ever think
they would change this law? Thanks for your time.
Again thanks for your time and keep up the great web site I love
reading your daily fishing reports!!!
Hi Ed,
We have a 1 fish limit in Jefferson County which is next door to us and
they have some dandy Trib. fishing. Most folks and guides are for it around here
and else where, but,,,,,, from what I gather the local business owners
and there lawyers do not want it. They are afraid of loosing business.
Afraid it will hurt the economy.( I have friends who are local business
owners , so I also understand their point) A little bird told me someone
way up high in the NY. state government said no to a one fish limit?
Maybe the business owners lawyers threatened? Like they did on the 2
Tribs to the Salmon River that the DEC. was supposed to
close? I really do not know for sure. A 1 fish limit would be the
easiest way to help all fishery's out. I personally think you will see it
someday, but all in favor need to keep reminding the DEC.
Nice chatting with you,
Randy
Hello Randy
Yes, this new proposal is such crap. They could do far more good by
enforcing the laws that they have on the books already. I called the DEC
several times last year to report illegal activities as they happened and
they did nothing. One day last fall I called to report 3 individuals
snagging with weighted trebles in the Genesee River. Three hours after my
call these guys were taking out their third load of fish and still nothing
by the DEC. At 7:00PM that night an officer called me to say that there was
nothing they could do because they did not witness it. Those guys dragged
at least 30 salmon, browns, walleye and steelhead out of the river! I saw
this happen a few more times and again nothing was done. It's a joke.
Thanks,
Jeff
Randy,
As far as a proposed leader length goes, I must agree with All you stated in your letter, to me, it is just another mindless cure all, to stop
some people from lining and snagging, with no regard for any of us who use leader length as a tool for shy or deep water fish. You can count on
me, and my company, for any support necessary to ban this proposal. P.S If The Powers that Be want to stop the snagging and lining of
Salmon, Steelhead and all other fish in the river, how about enforcing the laws already on the books. But as we all know so well, there is never
enough money, time or interest in doing so. Also if there is anyway around ethical fishing, there are always a few that will find it i.e. J-Plugs
Rick Moscarello
River City Outfitters
GENTLEMEN,
AS A LICENSED GUIDE, #2494 AND AN AVID FISHERMAN,WHO SPENDS APPROX.75 80 DAYS
A YEAR FISHING THE SALMON RIVER,W/MY 2 DAUGHTERS,I SAY "PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL
THIS PROPOSED REGULATION......ENFORCE THE LAWS YOU ALREADY HAVE!!DO AWAY W/
THE J-PLUGS!!AS A FISHERMAN WHO REGULARLY SPEAKS AT BANQUETS AND CLUBS , I CAN
TELL YOU THE MOST COMMON OBJECTION I HEAR IS THE PROBLEM W/J-PLUGS...NOT LINING
OF FISH!!
I AGREE W/RANDY JONES, ED MARTIN AND RAY ELLIS IN THAT YOU WILL BE PRECLUDING US FROM SUCCESSFULLY
FISHING A LARGE PART OF THE RIVER IF YOU REQUIRE US TO USE A MAXIMUM OF 4'FOR
A LEADER
.P.S. I DO NOT GUIDE ANY LONGER..I ENJOY FISHING W/MY 2 DAUGHTERS,AGES 10 AND
15 AND I HOPE THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE TO ENJOY THE WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE OF FISHING
ON THE SALMON RIVER
SINCERELY,
GEORGE O'BRIEN
Hello Ken, Les, Fran, and Dan
My name is Ray Ellis and I am the owner of Ray's Guide
Service here in Pulaski, NY. I am writing to express my very strong
opposition to the purposed 4 foot leader law. There are many of us here who
work daily teaching both the experienced angler and the novice how to fish
both ethically and morally. Because of the actions of a few bandits or
unethical individuals you want us all to pay a price. By enacting such a law
you will be excluding myself and my clients from fishing many spots in the
river. As has already been stated by my friend and fellow guide Randy Jones
one issue that what not brought up by your expert panel during the
discussions of such a law is the fact of a fishes visual cone in slow moving
deep water such as the sportsmen's, school house and other's. As an
experienced fishermen with over 40ys of experience fishing from Alaska to the
southern tip of Florida and every place in-between I have found that with
different conditions you need to use different tactics to fool your prey. The
size and length of your leader would depend on many factors such as water
levels, light conditions, how educated the fish are, and how much pressure
they are under. By making a law that say's one size fits all is wrong. Do you
really believe that by making such a law you are going to stop the law
breakers absolutely not. In the past we have seen the effect of legislation
to go after the law breaker. You made a very good law doing away with
snagging and what did we get someone figured out hey we can use floating
plugs so what came about the snagging lure of the 90's the J-plug, we had
exaggerated rod manipulation law's enforced the first year hardly enforced
now. So now we get lets go after the those few unethical people who use long
leaders wrongly by punishing the majority. This is not good law. I hope you
will use more thought before enacting such legislation.
Sincerely, Ray Ellis
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