Re: lack of information... you proved it! -- ExUBF's Parlor

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Date Posted: 12:07:22 02/12/05 Sat
Author: Mike K.
Subject: Re: lack of information... you proved it!
In reply to: Shane 's message, "Re: lack of information...I don't think so!" on 08:26:13 02/12/05 Sat

*Regarding Moon,Moon is NOT a mainstream figure in American society. You all are giving him far too much credit. "Moonies" as well call them are the subject of jokes and ridicule among mainstream America.
Yet, Moonies are influential and the Moon cult is doing quite well in finding new converts--- because everyone sees them as "no threat"?

I wouldn't worry about him, this false messiah is old and will soon die.(like another false messiah we all know) And then his 'empire' will fall like the falling rain in spring. (Just like another organization we know)

History has proven that even upon the founder's death, organizations which have enough of a momentum will continue to operate and even grow: Scientology, i.e. - did Hubbard's death end that story? But I guess Scientology is as much of a joke to you guys as Moon, right?

I'd like to address this "lack of information" point brought up by Chris. Chris, nothing could be further from the truth. Unlike Canada and Europe which only provide the extreme liberal point of view, America offers coverage from various points of view. You can take your pick FOX, CNN, MSNBC along with many others.
Which would care to broadcast Farenheit 911? Did they tell you about manipulated votes, what story did they have to tell about a certain district giving MINUS Fifty Thousand (-50000) votes to the Democrats, causing Bush to win in that state by a fringe margin?
You know, reading "1984" from George Orwell is quite a find if you want to see about information flows. At that time, it was all fiction. Now it's reality.

By the way, here in Europe, we can also see the U.S. TV - it seems like your "balanced" broadcast is not neutral, but usually strongly biased and in many cases replaces objectivity with emotional appeals. When such things are being used in the news, it's usually the best time to switch stations. Regarding the U.S. invasion, FOX did it. CNN did it. MSNBC did it. Now, which is your favorite channel.

The problem I have with our European "allies" is that they are in a defeatist mode and refuse to stand up to evil.

The problem is that when someone is lying about the preconditions for a war, they are lying. You got it? Falsehood and pretense are not good instruments in making Europeans allies.
Now, the primary reason for the attack against the Iraq were WMD. NO ONE gave proof, and that's why Europe didn't want to partake. If there had been concrete proof for the MAIN reason for the attack, threatening WMD, maybe some European politician would have gotten their fat behind reeling and have sent troops down there.

But now, we know that Bush lied. The U.S. intelligence presented false reports.
They fought a war under a pretense.

And now you say that Europe tolerates evil and lets the U.S. do the job?
If Europe really didn't tolerate evil, they should have rallied troops against a country using deception and pretense to invade another country --- but they didn't, be glad about it!

This has nothing to do with whether Hussein was a "bad guy" or a despot, it's only about YOUR OWN glorious country using lies and deceptions to get support for a war which nobody save YOU GUYS wanted, and YOU only wanted it because the media in YOUR country made so many reports favoring YOUR uninformed or deceptive president trying to make-believe that Saddam = Bin Laden's best friend.

If you go to "dubbyahsworld", you'll find out that nearly a majority of U.S. citizens assume that Iraq was directly responsible for 9/11... how can you then claim that U.S. news are objective? Everyone who believes Saddam had any more hand in 9/11 than Bush junior himself is heavily misled.

Ah, drifting totally off-thread-topic.

Anyway. I think one of the U.S.'s fundamental problems is that you guys haven't experienced the deception of the Third Reich, making you less suspicious and overly proud of your achievements.

Around here, we take it with a grain of salt when a ruler sees the need to attack another country under a pretense, and later when the bluff comes out, says "Well, but I still think it was the right thing to do" - and that's not because we're too lazy to wage war.

Calling "love of peace" to be "toleration of evil" is just one more of the U.S.'s media's tricks they play on you.

I remember when there were demonstrations against the U.S. invasion of Iraq, the demonstrators were labelled "Hitler's children" for supporting a despot, grossly representing their motives (which wasn't to keep Saddam in power, but to prevent thousands of innocent women, children and working people from dying in bombardments...)

I don't agree with all of Europe's politics in international affairs, but why should I?
But I also don't agree in putting a country on the "invade now" list and then trying to find a reason to rally international support.

And if you think that Europe's efforts to bring peace back to Iraq are not the harder part than dropping the bombs--- well, you might just want to visit that country right now.
You'll see that dropping the bombs is much easier than reestablishing peace.

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Replies:

Re: lack of information... you proved it! -- A general response to simple minded arguments, 14:50:34 02/12/05 Sat
- Unproven? -- Mike K., 02:33:34 02/14/05 Mon
  - OK, Lets try again -- Shane, 14:42:18 02/14/05 Mon