VoyForums
[ Show ]
Support VoyForums
[ Shrink ]
VoyForums Announcement: Programming and providing support for this service has been a labor of love since 1997. We are one of the few services online who values our users' privacy, and have never sold your information. We have even fought hard to defend your privacy in legal cases; however, we've done it with almost no financial support -- paying out of pocket to continue providing the service. Due to the issues imposed on us by advertisers, we also stopped hosting most ads on the forums many years ago. We hope you appreciate our efforts.

Show your support by donating any amount. (Note: We are still technically a for-profit company, so your contribution is not tax-deductible.) PayPal Acct: Feedback:

Donate to VoyForums (PayPal):

[ Login ] [ Contact Forum Admin ] [ Main index ] [ Post a new message ] [ Search | Check update time | Archives: 1, 2, 3, [4], 5, 6, 7, 8 ]

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Date Posted: 13:54:06 11/05/08 Wed
Author: Jenn
Subject: I don't usually post on here, but....

This whole thing with Prop 8 just makes me ill. I can't even wrap my head around it. I really don't understand why people would actually go out and vote to take these kind of rights away from anyone. I really really don't. What on earth does it hurt any other person if two women or two men get married? Can someone please help me understand this??

[ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> I have no good reason. -- HF, 14:58:13 11/05/08 Wed [1]

I do not understand it at all, but my best guess is that people are scared of the unfamiliar.


[ Edit | View ]

[> Amendment 2 passed here by a narrow margin -- Terry, 15:57:28 11/05/08 Wed [1]

The four existing laws against gay marriage weren't enough, now we have a constitutional amendment here in Florida.

Tyler was pissed. He's starting to realize just how much discrimination gay people face in this country and he is mad. So am I.


[ Edit | View ]

[> I'm devastated by Prop 8. It deeply affects my friends and family and hurts me -- LAwoman, 18:59:11 11/05/08 Wed [1]

to think that this certain kind of discrimination is still considered acceptable. What about the children of gay and lesbian couples? It's not fair to THOSE families. I'm heartsick over it, but not giving up the fight.


[ Edit | View ]

[> Well... -- SB, 20:08:28 11/05/08 Wed [1]

religious conservatives would probably tell you that this is not the way God intended it and scripture forbids it. They truly believe it's a choice I think.

I also have a theory that with so many minorities and African Americans coming out for the vote that that helped these marriage amendments as well. These groups are highly religious and not friends of the gay community, at least that's my experience. My neighbors, who I love dearly, once asked me if I was worried my daughter would turn out to be gay because she plays softball. NOT kidding! They are African American. It's strange to think a group who has been so discriminated against would then discriminate against others. *SHRUG*


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> Here's a question.... -- Jenn, 21:12:45 11/05/08 Wed [1]

How do the ballots read? Is it clear that voting FOR prop 8 is voting AGAINST gay marriage? Just wondering what the possibilities were that any confusion came in to play. I guess I'm just digging for a reason to want to hold out more hope for my fellow Americans. This is just sad.

That is also insane... thinking softball + daughter = gay. CRAZY!


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> This is the way is was worded on Amend 2 in Florida - -- SB, 08:53:58 11/06/08 Thu [1]

pretty straight-forward. I don't think the intend could've been misconstrued...at least here in Florida:

Florida Marriage Protection Amendment

This amendment protects marriage as the legal union of only one man and one woman as husband and wife and provides that
no other legal union that is treated as marriage or the substantial equivalent thereof shall be valid or recognized. The direct financial impact this amendment will have on state and local government revenues and expenditures cannot be determined, but is expected to be minor.

============================================================

Well, I do think athletic girls in team sports always get that wrap for some reason. It's natural to think lesbian girls might play sports more, but yeah they were stereotyping with softball bigtime! I laughed it off at the time and told them they obviously haven't watched college softball lately.

At this point, my daughter is so boy crazy I might actually welcome the news she was gay however! LOL!


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> Yup. That's crystal clear. -- Jenn, 09:04:32 11/06/08 Thu [1]

Thanks for posting that.

Too funny about the kiddo!


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> [> and one more thing... -- SB, 12:42:24 11/06/08 Thu [1]

In 1948, about 90% of American Adults opposed interracial marriage when the Supreme Court of California legalized it, and California became the first state that allowed loving, committed interracial couples to marry.

In 1967, about 72% were opposed to interracial marriage. This was the year when the U.S. Supreme Court was legalized interracial marriage everywhere in the U.S.

In 1991, those adults opposed to interracial marriage became a minority for the first time.

The change averaged slightly less than 1 percentage point per year.

===========================================================

As you can see, it took more than 60 years of time to change the hearts and minds of people. It will happen eventually I hope. However, the will of the people is essential in a democracy and we must respect it - even if we don't agree with it. :-)


[ Edit | View ]

[> Re: I don't usually post on here, but.... -- SFGirl Jan, 05:01:47 11/06/08 Thu [1]

Jenn

The ballots were very clear--and there is no way, with all the lies and hatred being spewed in the TV ads, that *anyone* could be confused about which way to vote. I am truly disheartened and angry. But as LAwoman said, it ain't over by a long shot--this will not die quietly.

I think the condescending attitude of the pro-8 people was something that also irritated me. There was someone yesterday on the news that said, "now let's join together to start the healing."

Um, there would be no reason for any "healing" if you hadn't backed a horribly discrimnate proposal!

Taking a deep breath now....


[ Edit | View ]

[> Why is it -- Jeannine, 10:19:37 11/06/08 Thu [1]

that defeated liberal positions are "never give up! fight fight fight!!!", but conservative defeat is the will of the people and should be accepted?

President-Elect Obama does not support gay marriage, does he?


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> UR correct...he is against them -- SB, 11:16:32 11/06/08 Thu [1]

for religious reasons. One of things I definitely disagree with him on. He says "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

He did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. He us in support of letting the states decide about same-sex marriage.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> I might not have the right ot vote and -- LAwoman, 12:40:27 11/06/08 Thu [1]

Obama might not either without the efforts of community activists who fought for civil rights through history. There was a huge protest rally in West Hollywood last night and I know we'll keep trying to end discrimination based on sexual orientation. I just wonder if my co-workers' marriages will now be annulled? One of the couples ( who have children BTW) have been together 30 years. Another woman I know has been with her partner for 32 years and they were so happy to get married. It breaks my heart.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> I don't think it is a liberal issue. -- Terry, 15:27:20 11/06/08 Thu [1]

It is discrimination, pure and simple.

It has nothing to do with being conservative or liberal. Either you think we are all entitled to the same rights no matter what race, religion or sexual orientation or you don't. Equal rights aren't just for some of us.

We are supposed to be one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Not just the straight folks or the white folks or the men folks.

I have a dream...for my son and everyone like him. To live their lives without fear of being hated for who they are and have equal rights under the law.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> A couple of things. -- HF, 18:11:42 11/06/08 Thu [1]

1. Obama publicly says that he does not support gay marriage and it infuriates me. I don't think he actually believes what he says, however, as evidenced by this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73oZ_pe1MZ8.

I think his position is more about getting full legal rights for the gay population in the best way that he knows how, and unfortunately we live in a society where the best way might just be to do it without admitting that's what we're doing.

2. I have a lot of trouble believing that the anti-gay position is "conservative." I'm probably in denial (especially because I don't personally know any democrats who are anti-gay), but I generally try to think that conservatives are primarily concerned with a reduction in business taxes, big defense, immigration control, etc. I can't wrap my mind around an entire political party hating gay people (and I really can't see how denying rights to people who love each other is anything other than hateful).

3. Not that you brought it up, but I also have a LOT of trouble understanding something about Christianity. We hear a lot about a loving God (in fact, he so loved the the world that he gave his only son...), but I don't understand how we can call this person/entity loving if s/he openly discriminates against people because of whom those people love. If God is all about love, how come gay people aren't allowed to express love?


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> Ugh. Try this URL. -- HF, 18:13:32 11/06/08 Thu [1]

The period at the end made it not work.

Try this instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73oZ_pe1MZ8


[ Edit | View ]

[> I think they don't think they're being discriminatory -- Carrie, 13:34:25 11/06/08 Thu [1]

They believe that "defining marriage" as only between a man and a woman doesn't change anything for homosexuals. They aren't trying to make gays change their lifestyle and it isn't really taking anything away from them. I think that's a bunch of crap!

The only reason to have a law like this is to separate one section of society and tell them that they should not have the same rights and privileges as everyone else. That's discrimination and it's not ok-- no matter what (your) God tells you.


[ Edit | View ]

[> It's clearly unconstitutional IMO... -- doni, 07:17:02 11/07/08 Fri [1]

and I can't help wondering if one of the top 10 lobbys in Washington isn't partially responsible. Money talks...louder than votes, unfortunately in this case. The last thing "Big Insurance" wants is to be 'forced' to acknowledge same sex partners, and be 'forced' to cover them as such. I believe insurance is behind the push for 'keeping marriage between male and female.'


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> Not in California. The biggest contributor to Prop 8 (banning gay marriage) was the -- LAwoman, 11:07:47 11/07/08 Fri [1]

Mormon Church. And there are ongoing protests outside the main Mormon facility here in LA since the prop. passed. I may go join them.


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> I have no idea about other states. -- HF, 06:52:50 11/08/08 Sat [1]

But in CO, all the places I've worked have offered insurance to domestic partners whether you're married or not. So that's at least the Colorado arms of Kaiser and Aetna. I do try to work for good companies though. :)


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> Where I work we have domestic partner coverage. That's how my -- LAwoman, 12:23:45 11/08/08 Sat [1]

live-in sex slave gets insured!


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> I wanna see a pic of your boytoy... -- doni, 16:35:04 11/10/08 Mon [1]

better yet, I want a boytoy. :P


[ Edit | View ]

[> [> [> [> [> LMAO! -- LAwoman, 21:44:25 11/10/08 Mon [1]


[ Edit | View ]


[ Contact Forum Admin ]

Forum timezone: GMT-8
VF Version: 3.00b, ConfDB:
Before posting please read our privacy policy.
VoyForums(tm) is a Free Service from Voyager Info-Systems.
Copyright © 1998-2019 Voyager Info-Systems. All Rights Reserved.