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Re: Future AE membership? -- NU Hoop Fan, 12:29:56 04/29/03 Tue
Hey, I admire your loyalties to Central, but we need to start facing reality in New Britian...
So let me get this straight... Central belongs in the AE because...
- No one outside of New England and the Tri State area knows Binghamton and Albany. Those schools are significantly better than Central. And people confuse Central Connecticut with Yale all the time, I'm sure. Give me a break, Central is a step or two ahead of Southern when it comes to academics. I'm not claiming NU is Harvard, but come on, Central's academics aren't their strength, and in this league, that's what they're looking for.
- You claim Stony Brook is a commuter school, what's Central then?
- Funny, I worked in Fairfield County and in the Greater Hartford Area for an international firm for almost 5 years and neither my firm nor our competitors ever considered Central when it came to a strong business school. Western has the best business school of the "State Universities" in Connecticut, not Central.
- Central's got a good education program, it better be since it used to be called "New Britain Teacher's College."
Central's academic standards aren't up to those of the rest of the league, and as long as that's what the League Presidents are looking for, I think they'll be on the outside looking in.
They key for UMBC is that it was an excellent research institution. I don't see how CCSU (or QU, or SHU) fits in that scheme. I know this is the one area NU is focusing on in its goal to be a Top 100 National Institution because that's where the prestige is.
I agree with UNH, there's going to be a lot of conference movement in the next 3-5 years. Perhaps if NU and BU aren't in the AE, there's room for Central, but I know that the NU President didn't want to associate with Quinnipiac, so why he'd want to associate with CCSU, it's beyond me. I can't see BU going for it either.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- J.J., 11:11:26 04/29/03 Tue
>Central's Academic Standards (if you want to call them
>that) don't even belong in the same category at
>Binghamton or Albany. I'm not that familiar with
>Stony Brook, but I know that Binghamton's business
>school is very well regarded even in marketplaces like
>Boston. Albany's programs are equally as respected.
>
>Central's academics are a joke. I'm from CT, and I've
>got to think that I'd put it at a level below
>Quinnipiac and Sacred Heart, and even Hartford.
>
>In this day and age everyone's focusing on academics
>and athletics, and I don't think Central has a good
>combo. Also, I'm not sure how good their commitment
>to women's athletics is. Traditionally it hasn't been
>strong.
Obviously you’re a jackass, even if you are from CT. Stony Brook is a fine commuter college on L.I. primarily drawing student from the tri-state area. Binghamton and Albany are also fine state institutions of higher education, but no one outside the Northeast would even know what they are. They are SUNY schools, again great state institutions.
Undergraduate education has a primary purpose to prepare students for full time jobs or grad school. Although I won’t bore you or any one else on this board with the details, Central does as well as any other mid-size public university in the country for an undergraduate education(and for much less $). In addition its education program and buisness school and also well respected in the region. Private schools like Quinn and SHU are diploma factories, making money hand over fist. And as for women’s athletics, the CCSU soccer team made the NCAAs this year and recently a US News & World Report article on Title IX listed Central as one of the top schools in the country for commitment to women’s athletics.
Its to bad NU hasn’t prepared you as well as Central could have. You appear arrogant and more importantly ignorant about both sports and academics. Good thing I won’t judge an NU education by your results, otherwise I’d send my kids to a good community college before bought a NU degree.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- J.J., 11:22:50 04/29/03 Tue
UNH - you make a fine point and that is something Central is trying hard to overcome. Clearly having UConn in your backyard makes it more difficult for us than any other comparable public school in New England. I recently spoke with the CCSU Alumni director who said that since Central had raise SAT score for acceptance, she had got more than calls from alumni trying to get their childeren into Central. As most CT residents know that kinda of stuff was unheard of, so progress has been made and I hope it continues.
My thoughts on Quinn mirror yours as I indicated in my last message to NU. It is an overpriced dipolma factory. So I think its fair to say academics are important, I just thought in my opinion the UMBC, SUNY, Central comparisons are generally fair.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- UNH_Alum_In_CT, 11:59:48 04/29/03 Tue
>UNH - you make a fine point and that is something
>Central is trying hard to overcome. Clearly having
>UConn in your backyard makes it more difficult for us
>than any other comparable public school in New
>England. I recently spoke with the CCSU Alumni
>director who said that since Central had raise SAT
>score for acceptance, she had got more than calls
>from alumni trying to get their childeren into
>Central. As most CT residents know that kinda of
>stuff was unheard of, so progress has been made and I
>hope it continues.
>
>My thoughts on Quinn mirror yours as I indicated in my
>last message to NU. It is an overpriced dipolma
>factory. So I think its fair to say academics are
>important, I just thought in my opinion the UMBC,
>SUNY, Central comparisons are generally fair.
Believe me, for selfish purposes, I wish Central was in the AE -- another game every year in my back yard!! One I could attend every year even if it was on a week night! And you'd be a great travel partner with U of H. And I think your rivalry with the Hawks could be as intense as any in the league. It would make the Hartford Civic Center (with curtains) a great location for our tourney due to the central location.
Who knows where everything leads in the next five years. Hartford has always been happier with the academic philosophy of the AE than with leagues with other private institutions (as LSBAL has explained to us), but who knows about the future. NU could be going to the CAA in three years. Leagues could rearrange with football as a common denominator. That is why I asked about CCSU football because I don't think they are comparable to football in the A-10 and specifically Maine, UNH and NU.
I agree that from facilities I've seen, you guys are comparable to AE schools. And in recent years your basketball attendance has been better than most AE schools. Of course, it should be as you have a gazillion alumni to draw upon in the Greater Hartford area and you've won the NEC. BTW, that's a huge advantage you have over Hartford. And I feel your pain as that UConn shadow is immense. There are similarities at BU, NU, Maine, UVM and UNH with the shadow of their hockey programs which play at the highest level of D-1. And I see your dilemna as a public institution in the NEC where the majority are private schools.
JMHO, I think there will be opportunities in coming years with significant conference transitions, Central might be able to take advantage of them.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- J.J., 13:44:33 04/29/03 Tue
Your insight is appriciated and I couldn't agree with you more. I think football is the biggest sticking point in any conference affiliation discussion. Central does not compare (or really even come clsose)to UNH, UMass, or Maine in football (just check out the scores). But we have been willing to play them (at least they have let us play them) and I think that's a step in the right direction. BU has recently dropped football, UMBC doesn't have a team, and Stony Brook and Albany are football members of the NEC. How does this football dynamic impact membership? And what really is the direction of the AE in the future?
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Re: Future AE membership? -- UNH_Alum_In_CT, 14:36:10 04/29/03 Tue
>Your insight is appriciated and I couldn't agree with
>you more. I think football is the biggest sticking
>point in any conference affiliation discussion.
>Central does not compare (or really even come
>clsose)to UNH, UMass, or Maine in football (just check
>out the scores). But we have been willing to play them
>(at least they have let us play them) and I think
>that's a step in the right direction. BU has recently
>dropped football, UMBC doesn't have a team, and Stony
>Brook and Albany are football members of the NEC. How
>does this football dynamic impact membership? And
>what really is the direction of the AE in the future?
I think the impact is that schools naturally try to form "all sports" leagues. That is what is starting to happen in the Big East and C-USA. I've already read in the Hartford media calls to drop Providence, St. Johns, Seton Hall, Villanova and Georgetown from the Big East because they don't play 1-A football. Temple already bounced from the BE will probably try to find a league with 1-A football and leave the A-10. There is a similar riff in the C-USA between football and non-football schools. I think it is only natural that a similar process is likely to occur at the 1-AA scholarship level. It isn't unhappiness with the AE as much as it is to interact with the same set of schools in football as well as all your other sports. I'm only an alum and a fan so I have no idea what the AE's direction is going to be. I don't know if 1-AA football will always have a separate league similar to 1-A hockey. The dynamic will be whether realignment to have "all sports" conferences occurs or not. I don't know if the AE is taking a proactive role in this process.
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JJ get your facts straight before you speak -- Dane96, 16:24:01 04/29/03 Tue
JJ, i dont defend NU Hoop fan often, but you my friend...are the jackass, not NU HOOP FAN (though we regularly disagree).
Stony Brook IS NOT A COMMUTER SCHOOL...you are such a fool its amazing. They have probably...i dont know, half the kids living on campus. The others live in off campus housing. HOFSTRA is more of a commuter school.
. "Binghamton and Albany are also fine state institutions of higher education, but no one outside the Northeast would even know what they are. They are SUNY schools, again great state institutions."
Amazingly Bingamton is a nationally ranked liberal arts institution. Oh yeah...UA, Top 20 education school, Top 15 Public Administration, Top 5 Criminal Justice (w/ NU), Top 10 Social Welfare, great business school that all the accounting firms regularly donate money too (OH, BTW, the highest CPA first time passage rate in NEW YORK comes from UA's business school), over 80% of its students go on to a post-graduate degree (that was based on the last figures the school released!), the national weatherservice East Coast research institute, the number one ranked Nanotechnology center in the east coast, partnering w/ Stanford, CIT, MIT and RPI. Shall I continue, or shall I stop.
KNOW YOUR FACTS BEFORE YOU SPEW!
Oh yeah...on a final note. UA and SBU are Class IV Carnegie Research institutes...the highest national class you can be in. About the only thing UA and SBU trail MSU, Michigan, etc. is w/ our endowments. UA has kicked off a 500 million capital campaign to increase the endowment from 14 mill to 500 mill in 2008.Excitingly, 8 million is earmarked for ATHLETICS! 'Nuff said! And yes...people even in Montana know UA...why...we actually have a good football team that travels! I do commend you guys for stepping up and playing UNH and Maine though! Which indicates CCSU is looking at possibly going scholarship IAA.
As for your football questions...UA and SBU are moving on up. Your tiny field (yes I have been to the new field) is not capable of making the transition up (though i never understood w/ all that space...why they didnt build a bigger field! If CCSU wants to seriously consider a big move...football is going to be a factor in making it attractive to a non-AE or possible future revamped AE. SBU put a 8000 seat beauty of a stadium up. UA just gave a prioritized list to the state including in order: a new practice facility, a new 8 lane track and artificial turf field, and a 15000-20000 seat football stadium. Not exactly the requests for a team who is staying in the NEC or at non-scholarship levels of football. We both play at non-scholarship football levels, but there is a world of difference between UA and CCSU on the field. BTW...non-scholly is a dying breed. The MAAC will fold by next year w/ the exception of Duquense who is either joining the NEC in football or the A-10.
So, point is...people A) know SBU, UA and Binghamton B) we are national research and medical schools (something CCSU is not), B) CCSU is comparable to ONEONTA, OSWEGO, etc...GENESEO is much better than CCSU academically, C) There is a much larger commitment on the part of the SUNY's to balance sports and academics...hence the dollars spent and trying to be raised.
CCSU is not comparable to the SUNY's in overall athletics (You do have a wonderful basketball program and coach.)
Just think before you speak.
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Re: JJ get your facts straight before you speak -- alumni "92", 15:48:31 05/02/03 Fri
great argument Dane96 ... impressive effort
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Don't assume just read. -- J.J., 17:58:28 04/29/03 Tue
I just don't see what you read to make you (or anyone else on this board) think that I was putting any school down, nor did I state Central was the second coming of Yale. I never once said anything bad about the SUNY (or any other schools). You just appear to have an inforeity complex (and a small penis too?). I guess I just shouldn’t have mentioned little Central in the same sentence as yours. Please! My quotes and info is accurate.
Bing is a great school. According to the website Bing draws 91% of its first year undergrad students from NY state. Great! Stony Brook is a former teachers college. Great!
Hears the real story. Since I began the discussion about AE membership and athletic competition, I suggested that CCSU would be a good fit in the league. Comments were made regarding Centrals’ academics. While I agreed CCSU would most likely sit at the bottom of the AE in that category, I didn’t think we were as bad as some people commented. I’d just like to know who’s there right now? How does everyone reading this rank the AE schools in academics currently? Does the conference have such parity that everyone is equal? That’s like saying Dartmouth doesn’t belong in the Ivy, because they’re not up to Yale standards? That is obsured!
I was merely stating that regarding undergraduate standards, to which nearly all student athletes are, Central is not that far off the current AE cellar dweller in academics. Hence it is not out of the world to believe they could join the conference considering other factors, such as geography, facilities, enrollment, school name (that seems to be a import issue for you all, e.g. UMBC), and athletics.
I congratulate you school on such a fine postgraduate studies program and for being a great research institution. But that was never the point. Not once did I state Central was a research institution (or even that they had a great graduate program for that matter). What was I said was that is one of the finer undergraduate universities in the region. Check the website http://www.ccsu.edu/CCSUnews/pointsofpride.htm so I won’t bore anyone with stupid shit like that.
I thank you for the few complements you did give. Yes non-scholarship football is on the way out and CCSU has come to the crossroads. But as you know the new coach (formerly HC at Ball State) has scheduled the team up (now we just need some wins). Dickeman has developed the most successful team in NE (minus UConn and HC) in the past few years. And the baseball team headed by the former Providence coach is looking forward. Furthermore as recently as last season, Central had two alumni as Head Coaches in the NFL at two of the most prestigious teams (Green Bay and Dallas). We know that they didn’t get there because of our football program. They got there because of the education they received at Central.
So next time anyone wants to pull out their dick to see who’s the biggest don’t forget to look down so you don’t ruin your shoes.
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Re: Don't assume just read.-You should get hooked on phonics -- Dane96, 18:31:43 04/29/03 Tue
For one, you said Central was comparable to the SUNY's...wrong. CCSU is not comparable to any school in the conference. A Binghamton fan has posted the facts and so did I (as did others.) Second, your run on sentences are definately the product of a bad writing course. Third, SBU was not a teachers college, UA was the "STATE TEACHERS COLLEGE" until, I believe, 1962 when it was designated a UNIVERSITY CENTER.
Once again poor facts equate to a poor argument and more of a reason to doubt the educational standards of CCSU.
How you equate a non-research university which is not recognized for liberal arts on a grandscale, w/ those of the other AE conference members, is quite honestly amazing. The facts are this: all the schools (w/ the exception of BU, NU, and Hartford) are very similar. Moreover, BU w/ the largest private endowment outside of Harvard and it's nationally acclaimed programs and schools, more than match that of the AE teams. Same is true of NU who has worked hard to shed a persona of a commuter school, in a bad area, w/o research. They are definately on pace w/ the other schools. Hartford, as noted, may be the loan exception to the rule, but they are old guard and do nothing to bring the conference down. Sure, could CCSU join, YES! But would they bring anything to the table...NO. THAT's what each of us has been arguing. UMBC brings academic excellance (they have now moved passed UM College Park in SAT scores and average GPA) and athletics (baseball, lax immediately!).
Bring me an argument on how you compare to UMBC...then we will talk!
LOL, those alumns from CCSU in the NFL you talk of...both started their careers at UA. Ask them both...since I know who you are referring to (hmmm...Dave Campo...OLINE COACH AT UA), who they credit there careers to. They will all answer BOB FORD, and not their playing days at CCSU...nor education for that matter! Once again, come up w/ a better argument...though I wish CCSU the best.
Oh yeah about penis sizes, since you (in bad taste) brought it up, I wouldn't know becuase that's not my thing. But you must have a large one since that's the only reason I can imagine a smart girl from BINGHAMTON dating such a knucklehead like yourself. And while on this board, J.J, try to keep it clean. We all argue at times, but we dont compare anatomy.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- J.J., 16:09:55 04/29/03 Tue
Bing - Very good numbers. Assuming they are accurate I don't think that its that bad. It is interesting that Central is only 150 points off Maine's numbers (I thought we'd be farther off). The SUNY schools do rank considerable higher (I should have seen that coming - my girlfriend went to Bing). I would only guess that state population might have some influence on the standards. Maine and CT have a smaller pool of students to choose from and NY has more financial resources for its university system, but that's not important. I hope no one took any offense to what I had written before. I understand that Central would rank low on the academic standards, but it not a community college as NU would have implied, and its within reason to be included with existing AE schools. I started this discussion based on athletic competition and not as a debate of university reputations. I though many different views on AE expansion would be interesting. Anyway, thanks for your comments.
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Re: Future AE membership? -- NU Hoop Fan, 16:24:33 04/29/03 Tue
Who implied it was a community college?
To quote a famed coach (I think it was Bill Parcells), you are what you are.
Is it a school with a ton of commuters, yes. So in fact was NU up until the last 10 years.
Is it a state school funded by a state educational system that's in trouble? Yes, but so is UMass, and I can't imagine UVM, UNH, Maine or the SUNY's are in much better shape.
Does it meet the criteria that the AE wants in a member institution? Today, probably not. Five years from now, who knows, but I doubt it.
In fact, I'd argue that if Hartford were being considered for membership at any other time in the league's history except for the time it was admitted, it might have a difficult time getting in. Not as hard a time as CCSU or Quinnipiac, but I know that the research levels at Hartford are probably at the bottom of the AE rung. Not a knock on Hartford, at all, just the facts.
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