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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- GW, 17:41:00 05/02/02 Thu
>Agreed, the holden w/ a pontiac gto nameplate is a
>terrible idea. At least the '74 gto was built by
>pontiac and had an actual pontiac engine. GM is
>getting desperate.
Have any of you driven a Holden? The car is awesome its a shame they arnt rebadging the GTS Monaro. This would beat a Corvette which is how the whole GTO started. Before you start having a go at it drive one.
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- Jason Halas, 11:23:29 12/21/03 Sun
True. The whole idea of the GTO (and the Camaro and Firebird, I've read) came from Holden. Let's not automatically discount anything else that might come about.
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- Bill, 11:52:23 02/07/05 Mon
I "own" a GTO, and it is awesome ie. Power, torque,speed. stability...I also owned a 74 GTO, 79 Trans Am, as well as a few Gran Prixs and I Agree That The Holden Pontiac GTO, is far advanced than any of the cars mentioned above. I have blown the doors off everything that have attemped a street race with me.. Mustangs, Nissan 350s, BMWs, Dodge 2dr Coupe I forget the name, and many others.
There is room for many horsepower increases to beyond 500hp with no change in appearance (L&M Performance.Com)has many bolt ons...The GTO is the "Best" car that I have owned!!!
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- Ron Fossett (RonInLA ), 22:28:14 03/07/02 Thu
>I can't believe that someone who supposed to love cars would do such a thing to an "American Icon" as the GTO. If I were to introduce a new GTO, I would atleast do it with a vehicle worth the GTO badge. Ford atleast did with their ThunderBird and any other car manufactor would do the same. This sounds like the old Chrysler Division when they brought the Duster back in a Neon Type car! It took years for them to get it right again, but still not as good as GM. I would think about it long and hard.
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- Matthew Burns, 23:45:24 03/07/02 Thu
>Well, Lutz just dropped a long way down the cool
>chart. I thought he was a tasteful man. Perhaps I was
>wrong. How could a so-called "car guy" think a big
>dumpy Cavalier is a Pontiac GTO just because it has
>rear wheel drive and a Chevy engine? What is his
>intention here? This thing isn't any better then the
>'74 GTO. It would be a disgrace to the legend if it
>were sold here. If he makes a GTO by rebadging a
>foreign car, he pisses away any chance of making a
>true GTO--a beautiful, tough, sleek machine in the
>style of the originals. A badge does not make a GTO.
>Any moron would know that. Why doesn't Lutz?
well look at the bright side, atleast we can have a car with the driving wheels on the right end. be it a true pontiac or not, I still like it more than any front wheel drive car.
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- Jim, 07:29:27 03/08/02 Fri
Admittedly I don't know what a Holden looks like but why can't Pontiac simply make a US built car that appeals to that 'mature' audience. There are many of us 'mature' people who DONOT buy imports simply because they are not American, far more than many would believe.
I would buy a US made GTO but not an import.
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- OZls1, 15:37:06 04/02/02 Tue
>I would buy a US made GTO but not an import.
So you would buy a Camaro/TA even though it is an import? from canada, as the Holden Monaro is from australia a country that is cousined to canada.
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- 454SSLS6, 20:51:50 06/10/02 Mon
>Admittedly I don't know what a Holden looks like but
>why can't Pontiac simply make a US built car that
>appeals to that 'mature' audience. There are many of
>us 'mature' people who DONOT buy imports simply
>because they are not American, far more than many
>would believe.
>
>I would buy a US made GTO but not an import.
Hey man face the facts, Pontiac doesnt make a US built car that appeals to that "mature audiance" because that "mature audiance" doesnt buy fast sports cars under $40,000 like the new GTO or the Trans Am or Camaro. You may not believe that because personally you might be a cool older person who appreciates fast sports cars but dont be confused, you are in a very small minority. Most men grow up get married have kids and drive sh@*ty cars because they have other prorities and things to pay for. Young people and kids are the target demographic for these kinds of cars. Believe it or not, but im right. THIS CAR IS NOT AN IMPORT IN THE SENSE THAT YOU THINK OF IMPORTS. Holden is a division of GM. Australia is not Korea or Japan. I HATE RICE.
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Victor Glass wtf are you? -- A little more educated....., 15:19:38 04/04/02 Thu
*How could a so-called "car guy" think a big dumpy Cavalier is a Pontiac GTO just because it has rear wheel drive and a Chevy engine?*
Big Dumpy Cavalier? It isnt even a cavalier, the cavaier is a front wheel drive vehicle! To put it in your terms: how could a so called "car guy" think that a front wheel drive vehicle is the same as a rear wheel drive vehicle? The chassis engineering involved is vastly different. If it were that simple Pontiac wouldnt need to go overseas to get a rear wheel drive vehicle, they would just change what they have.
Unfortunately you epitomise the arrogant yank. Fair enough use the comment that it cant be an American legend because it isnt built over here...but dont rag on a design because you dont understand it. Using the emotion of a previous legend to back up your comments is a sign of weakness. Fact of the matter is, the GTS would blow the doors off any GM/Pontiac product (other than the Corvette of course, due to engine/chassis detuning.
I bet your one of the people that thinks you have stuck it up the Japanese because the new Blazer/Envoy swept SUV of the year honors......what you dont realise is that it was designed by ISUZU. Maybe you should give the SUV of the year award to ISUZU for coming up with a winning combination.
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Re: Victor Glass wtf are you? -- realist, 17:04:06 04/10/02 Wed
I've heard a couple of B.S. lines from a minority (I think) of Aussies in the past few days on here along the lines of:
1. Holden wouldn't wait for GM to develop the LS6 (for the GTS Manaro) so they told the Americans to "fuc" off and developed a 402 HP version of the LS1...
B.S. - John Lingenfelter did it... and anyone with a Vortec supercharger bolt on kit can make more than that.
I've heard however that the "kick ass" 300kw (I love that... easy to tell how many light bulbs it could run) has grenaded, in it's infancy, at a rate of 30%. By the way, could I buy Edelbrock heads for my 455 and say that I developed the motor myself? Maybe down under that logic works.
2. The Holden Manaro is much better designed throughout than any of its GM stablemates...
Again B.S. - Who developed the LS1, LS6, 350 and any other engine ever to hit a Manaro? General Motors of course... current design and manufacturing practices at GM dictates that Holden (a GM company) far from designs their cars from "the ground up". The economics of this equasion and the cross divisional use of various components (engines, drivetrains suspensions etc.) should make the relationship painfully obvious.
Look, I like Mad Max movies (and his Manaro) just as much as the next guy... I also think that the peeps at the main poncho teepee were sleepwalking 'till rather reciently... The Manaro looks like a nice car and I admire Holden for pushing the design. I also think that the chicks on baywatch Australia are hot. I like a nice shrimp on the barbie with a Sam Adams like anyone else (sorry Fosters just dosent cut it). But lets cut the cr*p if you pull the US engineering of the manaro you wouldnt even have a donkey cart...
Now stay inside when its too hot for the birds to fly - heat stroke leads to brain damage.
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A few Facts -- A Disgusted Australian, 17:22:51 04/11/02 Thu
In reply to the supposed realist....lets keep it real...
First off to debunk this statement *Again B.S. - Who developed the LS1, LS6, 350 and any other engine ever to hit a Manaro?* there was a 253 Ci V8 (AUSTRALIAN DESIGNED)that was dropped in the Monaros from 1969 onwards.
Also I would like to understand how you come to the conclusion that because of cross-polination every car that is designed in a GM subsidary is based on an American design. The Monaro (apart from its Chevrolet Engine and Drivetrain) was not designed using American sourced technology. What 4 door American car from the GM stable is currently (or was ever) offered in Rear Wheel drive with IRS?
Fair enough if someone is claiming that HSV redeveloped the LS1 that is a little ridiculous I will give you that. Your little crack about Kw as a measure of power is also rather off base, in what way is the measure of 'power' in kw incorrect?
Not all chassis that are bolted to the bodies of GM made vehicles are designed in the USA, for example most of GM Europes chassis are designed and developed in GM Europe and not in the USA.
*But lets cut the cr*p if you pull the US engineering of the manaro you wouldnt even have a donkey cart...* What US engineering are you pertaining to? the Engine only? if that is the case then fair enough...If you take that over to the chassis then you are totally off base, the Monaro is a rear wheel drive vehicle with a chassis design that is not US sourced or originated, the IRS was not US sourced or derived and neither was the STRUT sprung front end.
I am not knocking US engineering, I would buy an American car over any Rice burner anyday, but I am disgusted when I see the bashing of a product out of Australia based on the observations of someone who has probably never ever driven a Holden (let allone a Monaro)...
P.S. Mad Max never drove a Monaro...He drove a Ford Falcon XB Coupe police car, and his personal transportation was a red Holden HJ Sandman Panel Van.
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Re: A few Facts -- Jim Tracy, 00:16:52 04/17/02 Wed
>Aussie, with all due respect, I grew up in the era of the GTO and when you were on the road at a stop light and a GTO came rolling up beside you the first thing you noticed was the styling that set it apart from every other muscle car of that era. It looked like an animal ready to attack. The next thing you noticed was the gutteral sound of the engine even at idle. The next thing you noticed was the apprehension you felt at being next to the beast before the light changed. As the light changed you felt an exhilaration as the combination of beauty, sound and power left you and all the other drivers at the stop light in it's tail lights. Based on what I've seen of the Monaro on various sites unless GM does a major overhaul from a styling standpoint this will be just a case where GM has found a low cost platform that will enable it to slap a GTO label on and sell 20 to 30,000 cars for one year. The people like me who never owned one but always wanted to will see this as an easy way for GM to make a quick buck and again tarnish the name of a great car like they did in the early 1970s. I would love to see the GTO come back and now that I can afford one, I would surely buy one if GM comes out with the real thing.
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Re: A few Facts -- ?, 14:58:57 04/19/02 Fri
It wasnt in dispute that Victor had driven or seen a GTO, what was in question was that particular persons right to rubbish something he had never driven or actually seen in real life. I have myself seen BOTH cars, I have never at any point seen fit to Rubbish the GTO. I was merely offended at the persons right to rubbish something he knew very little about. Not only was the current Monaro rubbished but so were all previous versions. If you look at it from my point of view, the Monaro holds the same level of passion in an Australian's eyes as the GTO does for an American.
Why did you feel the need to say "with all due respect?" you were in no way disagreeing with what was said...
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Re: A few Facts -- FrazLS1, 14:23:32 04/24/02 Wed
>>Aussie, with all due respect, I grew up in the era of
>the GTO and when you were on the road at a stop light
>and a GTO came rolling up beside you the first thing
>you noticed was the styling that set it apart from
>every other muscle car of that era. It looked like an
>animal ready to attack. The next thing you noticed
>was the gutteral sound of the engine even at idle.
>The next thing you noticed was the apprehension you
>felt at being next to the beast before the light
>changed. As the light changed you felt an
>exhilaration as the combination of beauty, sound and
>power left you and all the other drivers at the stop
>light in it's tail lights. Based on what I've seen of
>the Monaro on various sites unless GM does a major
>overhaul from a styling standpoint this will be just a
>case where GM has found a low cost platform that will
>enable it to slap a GTO label on and sell 20 to 30,000
>cars for one year. The people like me who never owned
>one but always wanted to will see this as an easy way
>for GM to make a quick buck and again tarnish the name
>of a great car like they did in the early 1970s. I
>would love to see the GTO come back and now that I can
>afford one, I would surely buy one if GM comes out
>with the real thing.
Theres already quite a few Monaros and factory holden GTS coupes that are sporting the usual modifications around sydney area and sound like caged animal so my gf says. I'll step on people to have my deposit in first for the GTO. Keep going on about your ethics of GTOs by time you have it figured out aussie know about real cars they will be powered by a fuel cell :)
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Re: A few Facts -- Wait and see, 15:47:25 05/31/02 Fri
...if GM comes out with the "Real Thing" ... Interesting concept.
What was the "Real Thing" that made a GTO. Seams like back in '64 someone took a tempest coupe, and under the table slid a freakin big old V8 engine into it and made history. There was no GTO style (it was a tempest with a badge) what there was was raw power, V8, rwd, manual trans avail, in a contemporary coupe.
Flash forward a few decades ... GM has now found a "new" idea ... Take the best contemporary coupe you can find, and slam in a big old North American V8 engine, to give you raw power, RWD, manual trans avail, in a coupe. Pretty close to the original idea.
What isn't like the old days is this car will reportedly outhandle and outbrake anything from the past ... and with the LS1 engine it will probably outrun em in a staight away too.
As far as who takes credit (or blame) for the car ... lets see ... North American Engine, Australian engineering, based off an Opel architecture ...Sounds like everybody plays here.
And for all the "american" made snobs .... those F-bodies start their lives now-a-days in the land of the great white north, labbats, and hockey (as do a fair share of LS1 engines).
If you can't see the facts ... you may lived in the time of the origanl GTO, but it doesn't sound like you "Grew Up" much at all.
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Re: A few Facts -- lb, 08:34:56 09/11/02 Wed
Interesting link here
The HSV is the base chassis for the Monaro
http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2001/September/200109_comparisontest_dundee.xml
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Re: A few Facts -- JoeMustang, 10:00:30 01/07/04 Wed
Concerned about buying American. Stick with the Mustang, they're built in Michigan and they still look like a Mustang (not a Cavalier)
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Re: Victor Glass wtf are you? -- Shawn Kniesly, 11:08:12 12/22/02 Sun
>*How could a so-called "car guy" think a big dumpy
>Cavalier is a Pontiac GTO just because it has rear
>wheel drive and a Chevy engine?*
>
>Big Dumpy Cavalier? It isnt even a cavalier, the
>cavaier is a front wheel drive vehicle! To put it in
>your terms: how could a so called "car guy" think that
>a front wheel drive vehicle is the same as a rear
>wheel drive vehicle? The chassis engineering involved
>is vastly different. If it were that simple Pontiac
>wouldnt need to go overseas to get a rear wheel drive
>vehicle, they would just change what they have.
>
>Unfortunately you epitomise the arrogant yank. Fair
>enough use the comment that it cant be an American
>legend because it isnt built over here...but dont rag
>on a design because you dont understand it. Using the
>emotion of a previous legend to back up your comments
>is a sign of weakness. Fact of the matter is, the GTS
>would blow the doors off any GM/Pontiac product (other
>than the Corvette of course, due to engine/chassis
>detuning.
>
>I bet your one of the people that thinks you have
>stuck it up the Japanese because the new Blazer/Envoy
>swept SUV of the year honors......what you dont
>realise is that it was designed by ISUZU. Maybe you
>should give the SUV of the year award to ISUZU for
>coming up with a winning combination.
Okay,some parts of what the "Realist" has to say is true. In no way possible, is the Holden Manero a CAVALIER/GRAND AM body style. They are a front wheel driven, 4 or 6 cylinder car!? The Holden is a rear wheel driven, V-8 car! The American car industry is falling due to foreign imports, but GM is getting smart. It is appealing to that side of the market that likes those types of cars, and keeping it a American branded vehicle. If Pontiac did not get the GTO (aka Holden), Chevy would have got an Aussie version of an ElCamino to bring over. This is a fact stated by John Sawruk (Pontiac Engineer, and Consultant to Mr. Lutz). Since GM is only allowed to bring over 1 foreign design, Chevy will have to wait a while now. The only reason any other GM car is "shadowed" by the Corvette is because GM Corporate will not allow it's sports car to be pushed out of the Lime Light by a cheaper sports version like the Camaro/Trans Am/GTO. It is very possible these days to take a Camaro, and Trans Am, and now the GTO to out perform a Vette! To do so, would kill the Corvette sales. I am ready for a new breath of fresh air in Pontiac, and Lutz is the guy to do it! just wait and see when the GTO hits the market.....only 18,000 will be available the first production year in the fall of 2003 for the '04 model GTO!
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Re: Victor Glass wtf are you? -- JoeMustang, 11:22:39 01/07/04 Wed
I believe he was referring to the style not the platform. It looks like a over sized Cavalier
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- 454SSLS6, 20:40:33 06/10/02 Mon
>Well, Lutz just dropped a long way down the cool
>chart. I thought he was a tasteful man. Perhaps I was
>wrong. How could a so-called "car guy" think a big
>dumpy Cavalier is a Pontiac GTO just because it has
>rear wheel drive and a Chevy engine? What is his
>intention here? This thing isn't any better then the
>'74 GTO. It would be a disgrace to the legend if it
>were sold here. If he makes a GTO by rebadging a
>foreign car, he pisses away any chance of making a
>true GTO--a beautiful, tough, sleek machine in the
>style of the originals. A badge does not make a GTO.
>Any moron would know that. Why doesn't Lutz?
Hey man, Im American not Australian, but I love the new GTO. Im embarresed by all you idiots on here who bash the Holden Monaro. Do you not know a good car and a great oppotunity when you see one? A sleek machine? I love the classic GTO as much as anyone and would kill to get my hands on one but I will admit that it was a f'n gass sucking tank. In the style of the originals? Sorry, GM wont make a new sports car on a frame, or with a big block, or with a solid rear suspension or weigh 5000 tons or handle like an elephant anymore. I know that must break your heart. Get with the times man. Its not the 60's anymore and they are not ever coming back no matter how hard you wish. Im no ricer, I hate those guys. The Monaro isnt even really a "forign" car in the sense that most probrably think of it. Yes it is made in a forign country, but not Japan or Korea, and its not even made by a foreign company. Holden is a division of GM, so get your facts strait. Please dont tell me you are a fan of "retro" styling. "Retro styling" is another way of saying passe sh@*. Remember when the original GTO came out it was new and fresh. What would be a dis-service to the GTO would be to look "retro" with a car that stands for originality.
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- Monaro/GTO, 21:11:32 06/13/02 Thu
>>Well, Lutz just dropped a long way down the cool
>>chart. I thought he was a tasteful man. Perhaps I was
>>wrong. How could a so-called "car guy" think a big
>>dumpy Cavalier is a Pontiac GTO just because it has
>>rear wheel drive and a Chevy engine? What is his
>>intention here? This thing isn't any better then the
>>'74 GTO. It would be a disgrace to the legend if it
>>were sold here. If he makes a GTO by rebadging a
>>foreign car, he pisses away any chance of making a
>>true GTO--a beautiful, tough, sleek machine in the
>>style of the originals. A badge does not make a GTO.
>>Any moron would know that. Why doesn't Lutz?
>
>Hey man, Im American not Australian, but I love the
>new GTO. Im embarresed by all you idiots on here who
>bash the Holden Monaro. Do you not know a good car and
>a great oppotunity when you see one? A sleek machine?
>I love the classic GTO as much as anyone and would
>kill to get my hands on one but I will admit that it
>was a f'n gass sucking tank. In the style of the
>originals? Sorry, GM wont make a new sports car on a
>frame, or with a big block, or with a solid rear
>suspension or weigh 5000 tons or handle like an
>elephant anymore. I know that must break your heart.
>Get with the times man. Its not the 60's anymore and
>they are not ever coming back no matter how hard you
>wish. Im no ricer, I hate those guys. The Monaro isnt
>even really a "forign" car in the sense that most
>probrably think of it. Yes it is made in a forign
>country, but not Japan or Korea, and its not even made
>by a foreign company. Holden is a division of GM, so
>get your facts strait. Please dont tell me you are a
>fan of "retro" styling. "Retro styling" is another way
>of saying passe sh@*. Remember when the original GTO
>came out it was new and fresh. What would be a
>dis-service to the GTO would be to look "retro" with a
>car that stands for originality.
Well I'm an Aussie and 454 let me tell you some of my countrymen's infantile posts in here make me cringe too ..
It's amazing as well to see how passionate U.S F-body enthusiasts are as well yet a pity this hasn't tranlated to sales, which I understand have waned over the years. Anyone know recent production figures, btw? Unlike Commodore/Monaro, F-body has no high-volume RWD sedan version to both spread costs and keep the plant & profits humming so I guess it's demise was inevitable ..
Understandably GM-NA has decided to try and retain future F-body sales through another import (was Canada, now Australia) rather than just handing them to Ford Mustang on a platter. And it's to their credit I think that GM is providing customers with an alternative.
After all, apart from Mustang, can anyone name ANY OTHER affordable V8 RWD manual coupe .. wordwide?
I read a recent interview with Holden's Mike Simcoe (Commodore/Monaro stylist) btw who is tasked with spicing GTO up for your market. Reading through the lines 'retro' is not his direction, the proposal has already been submitted to GM-NA. I agree the styling needs a tweak for your market, but Monaro is not at all unattractive, is a competent and durable car which performs & drives very well. Of interest, I believe Holden begins local manufacture of Gen-III V8's late next year.
454 your reference to Holden not being a foreign company but in the GM family is very astute. Where do $ profits from Toyota-US or Honda-US go? Back to Japan! Yet guess where Holden profit goes, eh? Last financial year Holden repatriated a record 80% of profit from Australian & export sales BACK TO North America. This averages out at over 50% over the longer term (even through Holden's lean years) and enriches America by about 22% return-of-investment annually. Not bad huh? Lutz is quoted as saying Holden is GM's best-performing division.
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- America - get over it, We (Australia) makes better cars, 08:31:18 07/04/02 Thu
I don't know what you guys are on about. Any Australian car kicks the ass of your stupid front wheel drive 150hp cars that you have to turn the air conditioner off to get power! Australian cars are way better. America is so stupid that a GM company makes a car then shares it around to all of its other subsideries. For example. The suburban. You can get a GMC suburban and a chevy suburban. To me that's dumb.
Notice how Australia don't import american cars? Because they just don't cut it. Face it, who would want a front wheel drive gutless pice of sh** - We don't.
You guys rave on about how power 300hp is. hahhahaha
Buy a Holden Commodore Executive (the base model 4 door Monaro with basic cloth seats - no fancies here) and for an extra AU$2000 you can have the same V8 that's in the Pontiac GTO.
I think it hurts America's pride to think that another country makes better cars and for that matter, better quality cars. I laugh at some of the american concepts for the GTO. I wouldn't piss on any american GTO concept if it were on fire.
GET OVER IT AMERICA - HACK IT. YOU CAN'T MAKE CARS FOR SH**
>Well, Lutz just dropped a long way down the cool
>chart. I thought he was a tasteful man. Perhaps I was
>wrong. How could a so-called "car guy" think a big
>dumpy Cavalier is a Pontiac GTO just because it has
>rear wheel drive and a Chevy engine? What is his
>intention here? This thing isn't any better then the
>'74 GTO. It would be a disgrace to the legend if it
>were sold here. If he makes a GTO by rebadging a
>foreign car, he pisses away any chance of making a
>true GTO--a beautiful, tough, sleek machine in the
>style of the originals. A badge does not make a GTO.
>Any moron would know that. Why doesn't Lutz?
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- FrazLS1, 19:20:36 07/04/02 Thu
They do import american cars into australia though none have cracked the sales charts the Tarus (which blew balls) Cougar (blew more balls) and Mustang that had a price that you could get a 300kW GTS for. The only thing desiarble in america is trucks and why make a truck go fast? I'd rather make a holden ute go fast. Get the Monaro over to america soemthing that should have been done 5 years ago with VT SS's when they were declined to make the VT the next chevy impala. and look who got won in the end VT top of sales.
>I don't know what you guys are on about. Any
>Australian car kicks the ass of your stupid front
>wheel drive 150hp cars that you have to turn the air
>conditioner off to get power! Australian cars are way
>better. America is so stupid that a GM company makes a
>car then shares it around to all of its other
>subsideries. For example. The suburban. You can get a
>GMC suburban and a chevy suburban. To me that's dumb.
>
>Notice how Australia don't import american cars?
>Because they just don't cut it. Face it, who would
>want a front wheel drive gutless pice of sh** - We
>don't.
>
>You guys rave on about how power 300hp is. hahhahaha
>
>Buy a
>Holden Commodore Executive (the base model 4 door
>
>ry">Monaro with basic cloth seats - no fancies
>here) and for an extra AU$2000 you can have the same
>V8 that's in the Pontiac GTO.
>
>I think it hurts America's pride to think that another
>country makes better cars and for that matter, better
>quality cars. I laugh at some of the american concepts
>for the GTO. I wouldn't piss on any american GTO
>concept if it were on fire.
>
>GET OVER IT AMERICA - HACK IT. YOU CAN'T MAKE CARS FOR
>SH**
>
>
>
>>Well, Lutz just dropped a long way down the cool
>>chart. I thought he was a tasteful man. Perhaps I was
>>wrong. How could a so-called "car guy" think a big
>>dumpy Cavalier is a Pontiac GTO just because it has
>>rear wheel drive and a Chevy engine? What is his
>>intention here? This thing isn't any better then the
>>'74 GTO. It would be a disgrace to the legend if it
>>were sold here. If he makes a GTO by rebadging a
>>foreign car, he pisses away any chance of making a
>>true GTO--a beautiful, tough, sleek machine in the
>>style of the originals. A badge does not make a GTO.
>>Any moron would know that. Why doesn't Lutz?
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- 74 gto owner, 22:22:46 12/17/03 Wed
hey u stupid little autralian bitch,
It just happens that i own 74 gto and i can garantee i can smoke any of your little crappy australian cars. i wanna see one of ur ballsless cars get its front axles off the ground 2 1/2 ft. you obviously dont know shit about cars. What the hell do u drive a little subaru that goes from zero to 60 in 10 seconds. the 2004 gto goes form zero to 60 in 4.3 and has 360hp i wanna see ur australian POS do that. Also your bitchin about the cars havin the same names, well its kinda hard to think of a assload of car names when you already have so many names unlike you australians who have like 3 car companies. hell atleast we can think of our own body styles, all yalls look excactly like either Jap or brit. Losa
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Re: VX V8 option for $2,000 is fantasyland -- Monaro/GTO, 06:17:52 08/02/02 Fri
Hero boy, have YOU priced the VX V8 option recently .. or are you still trying to find something to tug on at night?
>I don't know what you guys are on about. Any
>Australian car kicks the ass of your stupid front
>wheel drive 150hp cars that you have to turn the air
>conditioner off to get power! Australian cars are way
>better. America is so stupid that a GM company makes a
>car then shares it around to all of its other
>subsideries. For example. The suburban. You can get a
>GMC suburban and a chevy suburban. To me that's dumb.
>
>Notice how Australia don't import american cars?
>Because they just don't cut it. Face it, who would
>want a front wheel drive gutless pice of sh** - We
>don't.
>
>You guys rave on about how power 300hp is. hahhahaha
>
>Buy a
>Holden Commodore Executive (the base model 4 door
>
>ry">Monaro with basic cloth seats - no fancies
>here) and for an extra AU$2000 you can have the same
>V8 that's in the Pontiac GTO.
>
>I think it hurts America's pride to think that another
>country makes better cars and for that matter, better
>quality cars. I laugh at some of the american concepts
>for the GTO. I wouldn't piss on any american GTO
>concept if it were on fire.
>
>GET OVER IT AMERICA - HACK IT. YOU CAN'T MAKE CARS FOR
>SH**
>
>
>
>>Well, Lutz just dropped a long way down the cool
>>chart. I thought he was a tasteful man. Perhaps I was
>>wrong. How could a so-called "car guy" think a big
>>dumpy Cavalier is a Pontiac GTO just because it has
>>rear wheel drive and a Chevy engine? What is his
>>intention here? This thing isn't any better then the
>>'74 GTO. It would be a disgrace to the legend if it
>>were sold here. If he makes a GTO by rebadging a
>>foreign car, he pisses away any chance of making a
>>true GTO--a beautiful, tough, sleek machine in the
>>style of the originals. A badge does not make a GTO.
>>Any moron would know that. Why doesn't Lutz?
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this is getting out of hand guys -- Matthew Burns, 22:19:12 07/05/02 Fri
ok, so the GTO may not be too high on some of you guys' list, but look at it this way. no one is putting a gun to any of your heads and saying "buy this goddamn car!!!" if you don't like the car, don't buy it. whether or not it will be tarnishing the "spirit" of the GTO is a moot point. it's a concept, it may catch on it may not. but i for one am getting tired of 150 hp wrong wheel drive cars. at least it's a step in the right direction. look at the bright side, at least GM isn't bringing back the GTO as they did with the malibu, the impala, the monte carlo.... at least the driving wheels are on the right end of the car.
i have said it before and i'll say it again. the f-body is gone, maybe forever. so if you don't like the new GTO, then go whench on a new malibu, or monte carlo, or impala.... go ahead and whench on a wrong wheel car or an old F-body (not that that's a bad thing) while others can be wrenching on a new rear wheel drive car. what else do you want? 6000 hp and 45 mpg? what?
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Re: Lutz's "GTO" -- Ramair8, 12:26:42 08/13/02 Tue
I was saving up all my pennies to buy that sweet new North American GTO concept car not for a copy of my grand dads old Chevy Cav!!!
But, it sure looks like my old 98' LS1 powered WS6 look alike TA will have to keep me happy well into 2005.
Call it what you will.
But may the GTO name rest in peace until a sharp looking and "agressive" replacement arrives.
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Re: Ramair8 -- dreams over reality, 17:11:09 08/13/02 Tue
>I was saving up all my pennies to buy that sweet new
>North American GTO concept car not for a copy of my
>grand dads old Chevy Cav!!!
>But, it sure looks like my old 98' LS1 powered WS6
>look alike TA will have to keep me happy well into
>2005.
>
>Call it what you will.
>But may the GTO name rest in peace until a sharp
>looking and "agressive" replacement arrives.
Oh I agree with you wholeheartedly
Styling is MUCH more important than substance
Scoops 'n stripes are where its at!
Wanting to keep your ageing '98 TA (with the optional pretend WS6 lookalike package) - complete with crappy build quality, gigantic panel gaps, rattles, stone age suspension (cart axle), short econocar-style wheelbase, cheap cramped interior etc etc - over the new GTO proves that looks and image are ALL IMPORTANT
Forget that the 2004 is LIGHT YEARS better to drive and own than the current ancient design, and can corner with confidence, plus that its a quality piece of engineering built to go the distance ..
Pfffhht! Who cares about the actual car? Not you ..
It's all about the badge, baby!
You see, you're a real EN-THOO-ZEE-AST
(yeah, sure you are)
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