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Date Posted:15:29:28 12/01/10 Wed Author: stewart Subject: ignorance
I hope everyone had a great thanksgiving. I must admit I try to dwell on the thanks part of the holiday. As opposed to it being the anniversary of the beginning of the end of a way of life for the "Native" Americans. Which brings me to the subject of Americans. I must admit I've thought a lot about this given the fact I've lived here so long, that to say I'm an Australian ,really doesn't ring true anymore. Not that it really ever did once I was old enough to understand the true history of my country and how my race, like America's founding fathers, disenfranchised the aborigines of THEIR land and for that matter much of their native culture. I was born in the bush and yes know enough that I can survive there. However I'm really in kind of a precarious position because, whilst anyone hearing my accent would immediately think "foreigner", I've actually now lived here more than there. Which makes me kind of a paradox and at times it troubles me that I'm considered less American than most who were born here and less Australian than those who still live there. Over the years I've come to understand that in fact my spirit belongs to neither a specific country, nor a specific race, nor a specific religion. I guess I've found solace in the sameness of humanity and my inability to accept the stereotypes offered by any of the aforementioned as my particular "brand" as it were.
There are great things about this country and great things about Australia yet they are both far from perfect. Why is that?Why is it that someone always hijacks the claim to righteousness ? Why is it always us against them, when it was only ever just us? Why does man/womankind always routinely abuse power when he/she has it?Why do we suddenly lose our compassion and myopically stare away from the suffering in front of us when someone tells us to? Why is a culture of greed ever considered good or something to aspire to?How can anyone ever truthfully claim they are BETTER than their fellow man/woman?....... I'll tell you why.... IGNORANCE be it real or contrived is what is at the base of it all and it lives beneath many flags. When the acceptance of ones god given intellect is forgotten, when reason is put aside, when life's motivation is selfish and greed driven all we will ever have left to fall back on is the excuse of IGNORANCE.
Most of the misinformation out their today is contrived to fuel IGNORANCE not to truly inform. We've become a culture of lets stick our head in the sand maybe it will go away. Lets build more prisons, higher fences, gated communities,contrive excuses for our social failures, our sick,our wars, our needy, our homeless,our unemployed. Lets blame it all on the other side. It's them they're the ones who've caused this. It's the media, It's big business, it's anyone but US. We'd never be party to something like that, were good god fearing folk just trying to get along. No, unfortunately we're not. We may be driven by fear but that fear is most often driven by IGNORANCE. Do you really think the majority of the wealthy give a hoot about anyone else? That the fat cats accepting their xmas ,yes xmas, multi million dollar bonus's could care less that their speculation in the oil market made us all suffer. Or that the banks who, after being saved by US, now still turn people out of their homes whilst once again making millions, really care. They claim its the American way. Is it really?
Maybe it is, however unfortunately WE are the ones ultimately responsible If we live in a country and stand under a "free" flag, we must take honest responsibility for everything done in the name of that flag. Even though it's easier just to be spiritual and above the fray, that too can often be seen as selective ignorance. So I guess truthfully I'm right now one REALLY pissed off American, who wishes some of his fellow Americans, would just be a little more human and a little less selectively ignorant. Love on Ya Stewart
Thank you.
I totally agree. It is much easier to cast aspersions about others without really listening to your own remarks. I'm afraid I was guilty of "ruining" an otherwise pleasant Thanksgiving because I finally lost it after my sister's boyfriend had made the "nth" number racist comment. I told him he was being rude and racist and I would not allow such comments in my home. I then retired to my room. He was gone the next morning before I got up. It took a lot for me to say what I did and at the same time, it took me way too long to say it. Perhaps if I had commented sooner, I'd not have been so angry. I sat there hoping my sister would respond as she knows how I feel, but the truth is, I don't think she was hearing it and not only that, she was beginning to do it as well.
Often, we are oblivious to our comments and will collude with our acquaintances. (I'm much more likely to gossip with a certain group of friends) It often takes stepping back and giving myself time to respond rather than jumping right in. If I don't think, I'm much more likely to pre-judge (prejudice). If I want to "attack" the person rather than what they are saying, I'm in trouble.
I guess what I'd like to be able to do better would be to argue my case with the best facts possible at hand.
My sister and I were talking the other day about her passing on emails without knowing they are true or not. "Just because someone says to pass it on to ten people, doesn't mean you have to. If it is humorous or thought provoking, great, but if you don't know if it is true or not, don't pass it on."
I too hesitate to label myself as anything in particular , but if that's the case, then I shouldn't "label" others.
Thanks for your thought provoking entry. I don't care whether you are Australian or American or white or red or green, I just think you're a really great guy. Consider yourself unofficially adopted and a member of Laura's Super Nephew Club! (You're in great company!)
you think your PISSED OFF. You are .......this country was based on freedom of speech...can't have it here tho. You edit it or come back on in a snit. This country was based on freedom of religion.....You bleeped out some ones comment. You take the capital G out of God and the Christ out of Christmas. Go for it. Freedom of speech...right? The backgrounds of all countries through the ages have been abusive in takeovers of the native inhabitants...I am sorry about that. At this pont in time what are we suppossed to do. We are not responsible for generations passed, however we do have a responsibility to this generation and hopefully many generations to come. What exactly are you doing about improving this country????? and yet you gripe to the rest of us. I am American born and raised..My family have fought in wars to protect our rights and many have lost their lives. This country is by no means perfect...HOWEVER...It is better than most. I am 65 years old and I have seen things change. I am a Political activist, one of the original members of NOW, Peace Marshall, helped with the creation and protection of TENT city (Isiac Foster) in Mississippi in the mid 60's, marched to show respect when Martin Luther King was killed, was a family member of the President of the National Conference of Christians and Jews, was involved with the security of the Prime Minister of Isreal when he visited Cleveland, Ohio. Millions of AMERICANS have joined the causes I have mentioned and still strive to keep this country one of the best. Don't take the attitude that you know best. That does not fly with me. Things can change and things should, however take it to the top..write your rants to your Government officials...Things can be changed for the better...Unity and strength....There are ways to be in CONTROL of many situations instead of being CONTROLED. Many of us.. AMERICANS.. have done the best we can and will continue to do so. Is everything up to YOUR standards??? probably not....will it ever be? probably not. ACTIONS speak louder than WORDS...I was told by your partner you were very PASSIONATE about YOUR opinions....Respect others opinions also....Respect is a very important issue to coming to positive conclusions between all people of all countries, religions,colors,creeds. Wealth is sometimes abused and that is a basic issue. Many wealthy people work hard to protect out rights, our less fortunate,they donate money, food, volunteer for tons of causes, take on patients with no charge at all, help with medicines, travel to other countries to help the poor and ill.. at their own expence.....It is not a perfect world. However...I am Proud to be an American, and have the freedom to say...God Bless America and God Bless all who come here....MERRY CHRISTMAS to all who believe, and Happy Holidays to all.
I commend the community activities you have been involved in. I wish more Americans would step up and get involved instead of sitting around being entertained.
I for one, have done mission work at Twin Wells Indian School in Arizona, a Navajo, Christian school. A highlight was the privilege of being invited onto the reservation to meet members of the student's families and to worship with them. They prepared us a wonderful meal, fry bread and vegetables. We conducted VBS, built a gym, worked their thrift shop and helped organize the library. They can always use volunteers.
Currently, I am working with the Potawotomi Indians trying to find the correct historical place to put a marker in Johnson County, Kansas to mark the route taken on the Potawatomi Trail of Death relocation march (like the Cherokee Trail of Tears only on a smaller scale). Kansas and Oklahoma were main relocation destinations for Indians East of the Mississippi from the 1830s to the 1870s, after the Indian Removal Act of 1830. I have been researching the extraordinary works of missionaries such as Issac McCoy, Thomas Johnson and Father Benjamin Pettit in trying to set up missions to help the displaced Indians. Despite the atrocities committed by the government, there were also many individuals and churches that genuinely cared for the welfare of the Native Americans.
Debbie, small world. I was involved with the Lakota tribe through a church group who have for years helped the tribe through a lot of trials and tribulations. I also was fortunate enough to meet a wonderful woman named Anna Mae Aquash during the early and mid 70's. She was an active member of AIM and in her effort to help the Native Americans she was killed. It was a very sad event. My little girl, Amanda..1980-1997, and my son Robert's Godmother was on the bureau of Indian affairs here in Connecticut. She moved to Puyalup Wa. and Passed several years ago. I helped with the re-burial of native american's (Nehantic) when the land was being sold and the land was being dug up( burial grounds) for houses that were going to be built. Their remains were being taken and put on display at museums....Several of us went and approached churches and ask if they could bury the remainns on their properties. A major fuss was made and the remains were finally laid to rest in a proper fashion....This upset my young daughter who had a gentle spirit. After her death, I approached the 2 large cassinos and ask if they could put up a marker for the Nehantic burial remains. It took 2 years but they did respond and the monument was set up. AND thank you for your previous comments you made to me in reference to another fuss on the board. It was appreciated....
A lot of this sounds so much like me that I had to respond. As a disclaimer since I have a fear of my words being read differently than I intended, this is only my story, just as it is written with nothing between the lines.
I was born in America and have lived my whole life here in America, although I have traveled elsewhere and have many influences from other places (more on that later). When I was in school, my mind was blank as was pretty much everyone else's, and the teachers were able to put anything in there and we would believe it. Of course, there was some influence from home that stopped the teachers from completely shaping my mind, but otherwise I would say I was brainwashed. That sounds harsh, I know, but what does a child know? Every child is brainwashed, really. Part of that brainwashing included a fierce patriotism for our country. We were free (although from what or for what?), gosh darn it! We were the best country in the world! One memory that sticks out in my mind is when I was perhaps 11 or 12 when I watched the fireworks with my cousins at the Forth of July. In the midst of jumping up and down and cheering, I turned to my cousin and exclaimed, "Aren't you so proud to be an American?!" That was the depth of my feelings of my country: fireworks and excitement.
I grew older and I thankfully began to think of things more. I didn't think of just an event in history, but also the impact. I also felt the impact too, or rather used both sides of my brain instead of just the literal, unfeeling one. Suddenly all these things that had once been just words in a book became real things that affected real people. Worst of all, there were some really bad things that had been done by this country.
There are many ways a person can react to this. I'm not sure exactly what it was that made me react the way I did, but I think it was a mixture of things. I had just moved from the South to Minnesota, and it was not a very good move at all. Southern hospitality to Minnesota cold. I know there are some very nice Minnesotans, but I felt bombarded by the unkind and rude bad ones. I quickly began to resent the state and the people. Then I am pretty opinionated, so this gave me a chance to take a stand. Plus, I liked being different. So how did I react? I began to hate America. I took cheap shots where I could and never missed an opportunity to point out its failures. I ignored the good because of course the bad outweighed all of that. I kept finding new things to hate and new ways to do it. Yes, "hate" is a strong word, but I did hate.
Then, something happened that changed my feelings and how I looked at things. 9/11. As horrible as that day was and what happened, there was some good that came out of it for me. There was a new realization and way of looking at things that I'm not sure would have come about otherwise. With my way of thinking right before 9/11, one would think that my reaction would have been one of delight when I heard the news. Instead, it was horror. By the end of the day it was, "This is my country and my people and how dare anyone try and hurt them!"
There are three ways to look at our country and its history. The first way, which was my first way, is to ignore all the bad things. The second way, which was my second way as well, is to exploit the bad things and use it for fodder for our own grievances, whatever they may be. It is impossible to move on this way. The final way, which is where I am at now, is to acknowledge the bad things, learn from them, but to forgive. It is very similar to loving a person. Blind love isn't really loving a person, and exploiting another's faults isn't even trying to love another person. However, loving someone while knowing and forgiving their faults is really loving. I have done a lot of bad in my life, and I would hate to be judged as I judged our country during the middle period. One strike and you're out? Three? A hundred? The thing is no country is perfect and has a perfect record. Even the Native Americans who were here before Europeans started to come didn't have a perfect record.
My point is that I love my country, as I love people, as full of blemishes as it may be. I love the Constitution and the rights I have that I might not have elsewhere. If I was in another country, I might not be able to write this! We have a shared culture, history, and values. They may differ and again, they may not be perfect, but it binds us together. And for all the bad, there is a whole lot more good! Like I said before, there is no way to grow just sticking to the past and the bad things that have happened. We need to acknowledge them, learn from them, and move on. I'm not saying it is always easy, and I hope I don't sound overly simplistic. It is worth it, though, because forgiveness lightens the spirit. I can also tell you that my spirit feels a whole lot healthier in this "third" stage!
Now for the second part I mentioned earlier. I never quite fit into the American culture. I thought for a while it was because of my mom growing up in Africa and that having an influence on me. Not every kid growing up in America speaks Hausa or is carried around on her mother's back in a cloth! I was too little to remember the latter part, but you get the picture. My grandma is Mennonite Canadian and my mom went to a British boarding school, so some of my words weren't spelled quite correctly and my 7's and z's didn't look the same as everyone else's. Then our family began to move around and I lost a "home". I am originally from Chicago, but after a few months living in Arkansas and then visiting, I felt like a stranger! If "home" wasn't home, where was I from? Then I learned more of my family history (other than Africa), and that began to affect me as well. There is a connection to royalty that definitely affects my views on that subject and the way things "ought" to be (as well as some strange phobias). Then of course is my life history and things that have been thrown at me that affect who I "am". So when people ask me where I'm from, I have a difficult time answering. I don't fit into a category. The easy answer is "Minnesota" since that is where I live now. A more complex answer is "I was born in Chicago, my heart is in the South, and my body is in Minnesota." My favorite that I think says it all, although it is perhaps too abstract to use very much is, "I'm from everywhere and nowhere."
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Sins of a Nation -- Debbie S., 19:36:03 12/02/10 Thu
As for Thanksgiving, I view it simply as a special day set aside to give thanks to God for all the blessings he has given me, my family, my State and Nation. A day to recognize that all I have is because of Him and to humble myself in submission and thanks.
On Oct. 3, 1863, during the Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln declared the first official day of Thanksgiving with the following words being taken from his proclamation:
"No human counsel hath devised nor hath any mortal hand worked out these great things. They are the gracious gifts of the Most High God, who, while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy.
It has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly, reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and voice by the whole American people. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next, as a day of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the Heavens. And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to Him for such singular deliverances and blessings, they do also, with humble penitence for our national perverseness and disobedience, commend to his tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged, and fervently implore the interposition of the Almighty Hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to restore it as soon as may be consistent with the Divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility and Union."
Lincoln and others felt that the Civil War was penitence for our nation's injustices. If, so, it was definitely a most horrible punishment inflicted upon a nation. America has formally and publicly apologized to the African Americans and Native Americans for the atrocities of the past. African Americans and Native Americans are still given entitlements to this day because of our nation's feeling of guilt. My cousins are the direct descendants of Geronimo. If they choose, they can go to college free, while I, being Anglo American, had to work three jobs to put myself through college.
One does ask when will this debt finally be paid, our nation's sins finally forgiven?
There is no nation without some dark episodes in their history. But, despite all our many faults, I guess I am ignorant and naive in believing, that ours is still one of the greatest social structures ever devised by humankind. Will The Great Experiment stumble and fall or succeed? I choose to believe that, as Stewart seems to as well, then final answer is in the hearts and hands of the people.
So........for whatever reason, I've decided to toss my tuppence into this mess of a scrum.
First, it seems that there is a lot of bitterness regarding nationality which I don't really understand. I am American. However, if you want to look at what defines someone's nationality, I could equally say I am Canadian as I live right on the border and have grown up with a significant amount of time spent in Canada and many things Canadian being commonplace in everyday life. I feel exactly the same when I look at a US flag and sing the Star Spangled Banner as I do when I look at the Canadian flag and sing O Canada. Does that make me less of an American? I don't think so. To me, there isn't really any difference between the US and Canada. I don't see it as a "foreign" country, but more like an extension of who I am. I can understand a person taking pride in their country but I encourage you all to look into what you're taking pride in instead of blindly chanting "USA, USA" simply because you were born here.
I agree that we should not be held responsible for what past generations have done or neglected to do, however, we should learn from those past mistakes, look at our own actions and become conscious of how our action or inaction affects the world now and in the future. What many "proud Americans" seem to have lost sight of is that this country is a melting pot, a conglomeration of people who came here to escape persecution in one form or another and, yet, we still try to persecute each other because of the color of our skin, the god we pray to or our lack of money/position in life.
Second... opinions, well... this is a family friendly place so I'll just say that everyone has them. There is also a difference between agreeing with and respecting someone else's opinion. Just because someone doesn't agree with an opinion doesn't mean they don't respect it and vice versa.
Finally, hypocrisy... A person on the internet can be the owner of a board like this. Being the owner of said board, they can pretty much say what they like (within reason, obviously). However, when said owner posts, he/she is aware that what they are posting reflects on them. When boards are open like this one, what others post reflects on the owner as well whether they realize it or not. In this case, probably doubly so being that he is in the public eye. What may come across as hypocrisy may just be someone not wanting others' views being taken as their own, especially when it seems things may be misconstrued. So, my advice would be not to look at the world in black and white but to take of your sunglasses and see the rainbow.
I am sorry to disagree but there is one BIG difference between Canadians and Americans: y'all can't say "ought" right! LOL! Sorry, a running joke between a Kanuck friend and myself!
This may cause a stir but I feel that a lot of the American problems today helped get started a few decades ago when we were told we were no longer a "melting pot" nation but a nation of diversity. As I have said before there needs to be some things in common to have a community . . . I think that it stared to create a national identity crisis and separated people into different groups and subgroups and it continues to this day.
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Re: ignorance -- kell, 14:54:54 12/03/10 Fri
I won't argue with you Debbie because it's true. Sorry sounds like Sore-y (not sarry), out comes out a bit like oot at times and I say tuque instead of knitted cap.
I've been reading ...
attempting to process and understand.
First thought which came to mind ...
I kinda felt "lost in the translation" as I "traveled" from message to message.
So, I began a search.
I searched for a definition of "ignorance" ...
found a "very cool" word - "benightedness" ...
sounds to me like a "fancy" way of saying "in the dark" ...
not enough "light" in order to obtain a "clear picture"?!
Found a quote ...
"The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence if they lack understanding.”
- Albert Camus
I can accept that Albert ...
only, I might add ...
If in my "ignorance" I begin to search for a means of becoming "informed" and "enlightened" ...
shouldn't I "consider the source"?!
I'm a "trusting" type of individual.
But, I remember some very sound advice from a person whom I consider to be trustworthy.
To paraphrase, he said ...
"Don't just 'swallow' what I tell you 'hook, line and sinker' ..."
"examine it for yourself!"
Like I said, I'm a trusting individual ...
but, over the years ...
I've learned the "hard way" that I must also learn to "try" and "prove."
You know?
Everyone in this world is capable of error ...
And ...
On top of that, there are a few who are not entirely honest!
*well, "duh" BC! :)
In Geometry this week we've been studying translations, rotations and reflections ...
*in fact, I'm supposed to be studying for a quiz tomorrow! :)
"Geometrically" speaking ...
"translation" simply means "moving" ...
without rotating, resizing or anything else, just "moving."
"Every point of the shape must move:
•the same distance
•in the same direction."
*kinda like keepin' everthing in "context" when the "data" is being "translated" from one "point" or location to the next?! :)
On the test tomorrow we have to demonstrate our ability to "translate" [or, move] the "data" - "conveying" it to a new location.
In addition to "translating" ...
we have to ...
"rotate" it ...
looking at it from a different "angle" - a new perspective
then,
create a "reflection" - a "mirror" image
On the test we're gonna be "translating" triangles!
No big deal ...
A "triangle" is a "triangle" is a "triangle" - right?!
Wrong! :)
There's all kinds of 'em ...
*** "triangles" that is ***
One "label" or "size" does not "fit" all!
There's an "acute" triangle - a "right" triangle - an "obtuse" triangle" - an "equilateral" triangle - a "scalene" triangle - and, an "isoceles" triangle.
Each should be recognized by their "defining" characteristics - their "spirit" you might say?! :)
re: "spirit" ...
One definition I found said a "spirit" is "the vital principle or animating force within living beings."
We had to write a paper recently for our Educational Psychology class, addressing the question - "What Motivates You?" It was an interesting question to ponder.
This past summer, I had the privilege of meeting the person who "monitors" this board - and, he is actually a very humble and gentle soul. And, I think he truly cares about people, and it is evident that he is "passionate" about a great many things.
I believe that I understand what Stewart was trying to say in his post at the beginning of this thread.
I've been listening to "talk" shows on the radio while traveling to and from MTSU each day. And, I myself was beginning to feel very discouraged about life in general.
The following statement kinda sums up how I've been feeling lately ...
"Why is it always us against them, when it was only ever just us?"
We're all in this together aren't we?!
As to why I came to the board in the first place ...
and, why I'm still here (*going on four years now :)
When I read the word "harem" ...
I had to smile Cath! :)
There are times when I've wondered how guys like Solomon ever had a moment's peace?!
Can you imagine all those ladies under one "roof"? Geez! :)
Sometimes we may agree ...
Other times, we may only be able to agree that we disagree.
I've never felt restricted in my freedom to share my heart or my thoughts while visiting here.
And, I've never been under the impression that Stewart seeks to restrict our freedoms in any shape, form or fashion.
My faith is my own, and I believe Stewart respects that as well.
I would also like to add a hearty "mega dittos" to Kell's statement ...
"What may come across as hypocrisy may just be someone not wanting others' views being taken as their own, especially when it seems things may be misconstrued."
Anyways ...
I originally came here because of Stewart! :)
Then this "kinda cool" thing happened ...
I found out he seems to attract some "very cool" people!
And, I'm very thankful for all the people I've met here at "Stewart's place"!
Something I've noticed though ...
It feels more safe and comfortable to visit here than on places like Facebook - even though we are friends wherever we may be!
I truly thank Stewart for allowing us to meet here!
We are fans, and we are friends.
I feel very blessed!
With love from, BC
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It would seem my honesty has been obviously judged by some here as being anti American. Perhaps if they actually put their vitriol and pre conceived notions aside and re read what I actually stated they would find that my rant, as it were, covered quite a bit of ground but is actually framed in the most part as a series of questions. At no time do I state I was above the fray or not responsible. In fact my conclusion was that indeed I like everyone else must accept my responsibility for what happens in this country and my Americaness if I have a problem with anything I see here. Plainly and simply it was a rant about ignorance.I'm happy that it caused this discourse because it in a couple of cases it meant people felt the need to comment about me personally. Thats never a bad thing. If I've offended anyone then my apologies as that wasn't my intent. I was raising questions and how you answered those questions is your call. How I spell the word GOD for example is sometimes perhaps because I actually forgot to capitalize it or sometimes because I chose not to. To those hypersensitive in this area then I'll say what I've said before, "your relationship with your higher power is your relationship". I think my god understands my belief in a higher power and no one owns that franchise but god. Perhaps some may see this spelling as disrespect, on the contrary I have a profound respect for god/a higher power. I just find arguments about spelling akin to certain religions killing people over cartoons. Its to me completely misguided but you may believe as you wish and choose to be offended as you wish. As I've said here numerous times I've allowed pretty much full freedom of speech here. I personally have never asked that anyone be anything other than who they are when stating whatever they state particularly if that be preaching , controversial or a personal attack on myself . Just don't think I won't disagree if I disagree. As far as editing I've never personally edited anything from this page. Others may have . Actually I do recall once asking my web mistress to remove something that was deeply personal and had no place here. As far as Harems go I find that also extremely funny. Those of you who take the time to read my posts will often find me as bewildered as you sometimes are that this board exists or that people visit here . Over the years I've always been amazed that people stuck with me no matter how offended their sensibilities were by a performance of mine or something I've said here. It's as if they truly understood that I'm an actor. An actor who humbly grateful of the chances he's been given and the support he has garnered along the way. There's much I could say further about my life experiences and how they've shaped my opinions and they are after all just opinions. However that's a work in progress and something really more involved than I have time for here. Yes much of what I rail against I do because I cant stand those who speak for the common man yet are nothing of the sort. Much less have ever walked a yard in those shoes let alone a mile. It's a ploy to make money and sell snake oil to people who can ill afford it. I'll not defend myself to those who feel the need to quote everything good they've done in their life or every cause they've fought for whilst chastising me. Good for you. Just know that my life's lessons were often hard won and that I'll never stop learning. Jingoism will always be jingoism no matter what country you speak of eg. aussie aussie aussie oi oi oi.:) As a breeder of a couple of Americans let me say to those who may think otherwise, I've as much desire as you probably all do to see this country be all it can be. How that happens is up to us. Yes us. Thank you to EVERYONE who made comments on this thread as I've been both enlightened and entertained by your posts. love on ya Stewart
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Re: ignorance -- marse, 09:57:58 12/04/10 Sat
I.. at no time stated you were anti-american. I believe protesting is sometimes necessary to get things in government to go along a better path. I was not bragging about what I have done, but stating the fact millions of americans, just like me, fight for what they believe in and continue to try to change the things that need to be changed. Yes indeed.....GOOD FOR THEM. In reference to g or G.....what ever. Your faith is your faith. I don't question it nor have I ever referred to it. You have the right to believe what you want, and I respect that. I have the right to do that also... and I most definately will. I have been offended by comments you have made and finally posted my own...In my opinion, and my opinion only... I feel justified in my response. I understand life gives us some hard knocks and we must all try to get back up on our feet and try to carry on. It takes a huge amount of strength and courage to do so. I also know that you can learn something from every person you come in contact with.. if you have an open mind, and are not so opinionated. My comments were indeed directed to you and you alone. If you felt it was a personal attack.....No, it was my personal opinion about your comments..You have a right to speak your mind....I, in return voiced mine. So, it is what it is...Perhaps we can just agree to disagree....I will keep my tongue in cheek, and you can continue to spit fire.. all in all... I still get a kick out of your rants...You do get 100% of my attention when you voice your opinions... marse
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Re: ignorance -- Dana (A late entry from a newcomer...), 12:33:39 12/04/10 Sat
I feel a bit strange popping into this conversation when I’ve never been here before, but I found it so thought-provoking that I have pondered it, processed it, and wrote a response that has taken me three days to write amidst much busyness with my kids and many interruptions…I’m a slow processor and think too much to begin with, so it feels really late to be commenting now, but since I spent the time to respond to it, well, here's what I’ve processed over the last few days…
In reading over Stewart’s heartfelt words, and in seeing the various responses, I can’t help but feel like the responses only scratch the surface of what Stewart is really saying here. I’m not so sure this is just an issue of patriotism nor being anti-American…I am a very patriotic American who loves her country while seeing it’s imperfections. Does finding that happy balance between acknowledging the faults, forgiving the past, and focusing on the positive things about our nation (or listing all the contributions we’ve made) help us feel better about this wonderful nation? Sure it can, but does that really reach to the core of what Stewart is saying here? I think what I’m hearing is someone being vulnerable and honest about his feelings about what he’s observing (or experiencing?) and asking the tough questions for which he may or may not have an answer. I could be wrong, but it sounds like more of a venting of disappointment and disillusionment with what human nature is capable of, “under any flag”, maybe a feeling akin to betrayal when we struggle to understand or accept that other human beings can be so hurtful, callous, apathetic, or even cruel. It’s heart-breaking enough for any of us with compassion to see people hurt by the choices of others, but the pain of it goes to a whole new level when you yourself or those closest to you are the recipient of the consequences of someone else’s selfishness, abuse, poor choices, or exploitation. So what do we do with that hurt and anger? Is it helpful to tell someone to just get over it? Do we cave to the tendency toward blame thereby nurturing that self-defeating victim mentality? Does it help to realize our own part in the problems of this world? Do we mask the pain by burying ourselves in diversions, entertainment, or other devices designed to help us ignore it or run away from it, or at least make others think it doesn’t affect us? Do we just sit back and nurse that bitterness, which has been likened to drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die? Do we just try to focus on the positive things in life to pull us out of our “negative mood”? That’s a healthy practice, but is it enough? I would agree that forgiveness is huge, is a must, if we are to be free from the devastating pitfalls of unrelenting hurt or anger or grief, but what if you don’t have the strength to truly forgive on your own? Is there somewhere higher or deeper still to go? How often do we settle for healing “the brokenness of My people superficially, saying ‘Peace, peace’, but there is no peace”?
And what of the issue of “ignorance”? I would agree with your statement, Stewart, that much of the “misinformation out there today is contrived to fuel ignorance, not to truly inform”…I would add that much of it is designed to just plain deceive or get people to think a certain way such that it benefits the one(s) manipulating the information in the first place. But how do we combat ignorance and the pathologies that it gives birth to? To where do we go, or do we just hope people will stop being ignorant? Is not TRUTH the only thing that can shed light in the darkness of ignorance? After all, ignorance suggests that lies are being believed and acted upon, whether unwittingly or purposely. Yes, I truly believe that TRUTH is the answer here, but then we’re faced with the big question: What is TRUTH? Unfortunately we live in a world that really struggles to answer that question, and is uncomfortable with it or even fearful of it…”When acceptance of one’s God-given intellect is forgotten, when reason is put aside, when life’s motivation is selfish and greed driven, all we will ever have to fall back on…is”…well, not much in the absence of TRUTH. Of course, even when TRUTH stares an individual right in the face they can still choose to reject it and be “selectively ignorant”. But the bigger problem is that popular culture has taught many to believe that truth is relative, that each individual can create and define “truth” for himself or herself and that we all need to accept and respect each other’s definition of “truth”…but isn’t this laying aside intellect and reason when I’m being asked to accept and not question Hitler’s “truth” that Jews are inferior and should be exterminated, someone’s “truth” that one race is superior to another or that slavery is acceptable, one culture’s “truth” that women are just objects to be exploited or people of other religions should be killed, another person’s “truth” that it’s okay to physically or sexually abuse children…? Can the rejection of absolute TRUTH be a reflection of when “life’s motivation is selfish and greed-driven”? In this way, when the bank owners are free without question to define ”truth” for themselves, there is no basis to tell them that it is wrong to turn people out of their homes after taking millions in bail out money plus a bonus for the foreclosure, or, as in my case, taking advantage of those to whom they give a “loan modification”. Truth, by definition, has to be absolute, since truth predicates that something else is false…the person who says emphatically that truth is relative is already contradicting himself because he believes this to be absolute truth (also, if he’s a fairly decent person, I’m pretty sure he isn’t going to find the previously mentioned “truths” acceptable or worthy of protection)…it’s a self-defeating philosophy. It also can’t really work carried all the way…what happens when I decide that according to my truth that red light is really green? (Another rabbit trail for another time…Where does this belief in absolute TRUTH meet in harmony with man's God-given free will?) But then who gets to define TRUTH if it can’t be haphazardly decided by millions of different individuals according to their own philosophies or whims? Can one mere human make that call for the rest of the world? Without a higher authority to define TRUTH, throughout all of history, any leader or government who makes itself out to be a god or a savior soon becomes a monster, thus touching on the question, “Why does man/womankind always routinely abuse power when he/she has it?” They’re not humbly looking to a higher authority (who would tell them to let the citizens have a say) but embrace the notion that they can define “truth” for themselves to further their own goals. Is it arrogant for me to say that I believe that the One who created this universe and each individual in it is the source of absolute TRUTH, that God is TRUTH itself, and holds the rights to its definition? I think I’d rather have Love Himself dictate that for me knowing that He loves and values each individual on the face of the planet. Yes, I guess it’s “exclusive”, but is it so bad to stand against the things that stand in direct opposition to the character of God, like hatred, abuse of power, greed, apathy toward suffering, selfishness, exploitation, etc…yes, God, gives us free choice to accept or reject Him and I respect that right to choose…He didn’t design us to be robots…He desires relationship, not religiosity. And it generally works better if people’s desire and attempt to “do the right thing” comes from within the heart, not from without just because they’re told to. But how does a hardened heart change? I’m well aware that many would say that it is arrogant for me as a Christian to believe that Jesus is “the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through (Him)”, but is it arrogant of me to say that I am a sinner in need of God’s grace, in need of a Savior? Is it arrogant of me to acknowledge that my own wisdom is finite, to acknowledge God as the source of TRUTH instead of being my own god deciding for myself what I want to be right and wrong? I admit that I have been arrogant…my own struggle with pride has had to do with living as if I could earn God’s grace and love by being a “good girl” and following all the “rules”, being shocked (even though He did tell us it will happen) that God allowed pain and suffering to land in my lap when I had been compassionate, nice, and “done (almost) everything right”…yikes, there’s pride for you! In being horrified by the ugliness of my sin that had been pretty well hidden, even from myself, I was also instantly overwhelmed by God’s unconditional love and grace…I’m so glad He’s patient and gentle with me as He works to transform, purify, and free me…as He is with each person who comes to Him no matter how rough around the edges or where they are in the process.
As I read over what Stewart has written, I can’t help but see the cry of God’s heart (as revealed in scripture and in the beauty of His creation) in much of it…not that God doesn’t know the answers to the questions Stewart posed, but the greed, the abuse, the self-righteousness, the arrogance, the selfishness, division, apathy toward suffering, etc. are all contrary to the nature of God…the things that make God weep should make us weep, the things that make Him angry should make us angry, and the things that make Him rejoice should make us rejoice. God sees us as “one blood”…one race, the human race. God is compassionate and calls us to be so as well…He has a great heart for the needy and weak as revealed throughout scripture. God is Love and one of the greatest commandments is simply to “love your neighbor as yourself”. He delights in love and justice, mercy and forgiveness…His is intimately involved in the lives of those who allow Him and calls us to be involved in the lives of others as well…He came to this earth not to be served but to serve, an example for us to follow. He is “gentle and humble in heart”…humility, along with love, is supposed to be one of the greatest qualities of those who are on the journey to becoming Christ’s “image-bearers”…yes, there are those who just talk the talk but don’t walk the walk, which includes “false teachers”…”you will know them by their fruits”…but for those of us who are sincere in our desire to walk in His footsteps I’m thankful for His grace and patience wherever I am in the process of growth and transformation, even when I’m slow to learn, whether it’s due to fearfulness or stubbornness!
Getting back to the subject of pain, suffering, injustice, etc., I am well acquainted with it (not all of it someone else’s doing, just life, and nothing compared to what many other people in the world have had to endure), and I understand the deep struggle of trying to wrap my head (or my heart) around why people hurt other people…I’ve learned that while it breaks God’s heart, He’s not surprised by it and is “near to the broken-hearted”. I have found great comfort in knowing that, left in His hands, there can be purpose in pain, that He can redeem it, that I can be thankful for the growth in it, that it enlarges our capacity to know God and draw near to Him. I’ve learned that the power to overcome anger comes not only in forgiveness but in letting go and surrendering to God those things I cling to and/or treasure most…but I found I couldn’t do this without His strength. What we entrust to Him comes back to us in greater blessings. The fire of difficulties can burn off fetters, and I know I’m freer than I was before. I love it that God can bring beauty from the ashes of broken dreams, that He is a master artist who takes those dark pigments of pain in our lives and uses them to contrast beautifully with the lighter colors to create a more stunning masterpiece on the canvas of our lives. Trials are the food of faith…before I could talk flippantly about faith but didn’t really know what it was, but slowly I’ve learned that it means to rest in God and believe that He is who He says He is, that He is bigger than my circumstances, that He will work all things together for good…Faith cannot be dependent on feelings, but on the other hand, how else could I grieve so deeply with a crushed and bleeding heart while at the same exact time feel an unexplainable joy and peace deep in my soul? How else could I be walking a road I absolutely hated while at the same time knowing a protective cocoon of peace surrounded me? I do still get weary and whine to God at times, but His grace is sufficient…God is good and I’m excited to see where else He will lead me on this adventure and there’s so much more I have to learn. I guess my purpose in saying all this is to share the gift of HOPE that God has given to me.
Anyways….Stewart, I just wanted you to know that I respect and appreciate your honesty and vulnerability, whether or not we agree on every subject or on the subject of Jesus (again, the character of God…He prefers honesty over pretension). Maybe I totally missed the point of what you were trying to say, and I apologize for my long-windedness…what you wrote (and some of the responses) struck a passionate chord within me and the processing of it is good for me. I pray that wherever I’m off base God would correct me. I can see that you have a heart of compassion and gentleness, that you are passionate and a deep thinker, and that you are down-to-earth and have a fun sense of humor (from what I saw on the “Making of The Last Sin Eater”). You’re also a gifted actor. My kids and I are fairly new to the “Christy” series and enjoy it as Mama/daughter/son time together...you’re the favorite and they go around quoting your lines…not sure what they like best, the lines or the accent! They keep me laughing!
Thank you for your warm welcomes and kind words...I'm glad to know someone saw some semblance of clarity in my ramblings! I don't spend too much time online but I'll try to drop in when I can...
With Love,
Dana:)
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an article ... -- BC (), 11:33:46 12/07/10 Tue
"1. Know that all significant change throughout history has occurred not because of nations, armies, governments and certainly not committees. They happened as a result of the courage and commitment of individuals. People like Joan of Ark, Albert Einstein, Clara Barton, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Edison and Rosa Parks. They might not have done it alone, but they were, without question, the change makers.
2. Believe that you have a unique purpose and potential in the world. It's not so much something to create as to be discovered. And it's up to you to discover it. Believe that you can and will make a difference.
3. Recognize that everything you do, every step you take, every sentence you write, every word you speak-or DON'T speak--counts. Nothing is trivial. The world may be big, but there are no small things. Everything matters.
4. To be the change you want to see in the world, you don't have to be loud. You don't have to be eloquent. You don't have to be elected. You don't even have to be particularly smart or well educated. You do, however, have to be committed.
5. Take personal responsibility. Never think "it's not my job". It's a cop-out to say, "What can I do, I'm only one person." You don't need everyone's cooperation or anyone's permission to make changes. Remember this little gem, "If it's to be, it's up to me."
6. Don't get caught up in the how of things. If you're clear on what you want to change and why you want to change it, the how will come. Many significant things have been left undone because someone let the problem solving interfere with the decision-making.
7. Don't wait for things to be right in order to begin. Change is messy. Things will never be just right. Follow Teddy Roosevelt's timeless advice, "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."
8. The genesis for change is awareness. We cannot change what we don't acknowledge. Most of the time, we aren't aware of what's wrong or what's not working. We don't see what could be. By becoming more aware, we begin the process of change.
9. Take to heart these words from Albert Einstein--arguably one of the smartest change masters who ever lived: "All meaningful and lasting change starts first in your imagination and then works its way out. Imagination is more important than knowledge."
10. ... We can't change others; we can only change ourselves. However, when We change, it changes everything. And in doing so, we truly can be the change we want to see in the world."
- written by By Michael Angier
Last edited by author: Tue December 07, 2010 15:09:19
Edited 1 time.
Wow! This is quite the spicy thread here! Yowza!
I'm sorry I missed much of this discussion. I'll keep my opinions to myself because, well, many of them have already been said and there's no sense in beating a dead horse/elephant/donkey/squirrel, is there?
I will say that I did enjoy reading this immensely. As someone with a political background that I was all too happy to leave behind, I can understand many of the views expressed on "both sides of the aisle." There really are two sides to every story told.
Some interesting points have been added here since I last posted. Firstly I do firmly believe that nationalism misplaced can most definitely be the cause of huge human suffering. I cite the Germans and the Japanese in World War two as prime examples of countries who were incited into aggression because of this. If fact if you are willing tg put tribalism and religion in the mix you have the catalyst for pretty much every human conflict since the dawn of mankind. Exploiting mans desire for commonness has been a political weapon forever. Us against them is an easy sell especially if those with the ability to propagandize issues are in charge of public information. We are responsible for our forefathers wrong doings and progressive societies such as this one usually attempt to right those wrongs. I cite Aboriginal land rights in Australia, Tribal Land Rghts in America and Affirmative Action as examples of society coming to terms with its history and working to heal it. It's really too easy for anyone to claim nationality or ethnic background as a reason to hate.
There is never such a thing as the "greatest" this or that if you believe in god's higher power. Perhaps we should use the term "most fortunate". Greatest implies the best ever. Perhaps there is better yet to come? Perhaps we could be better if we were less accepting of the greatest label ?. The separation of God and State is a necessary thing because I believe once a nation believes it, and only it, is acting on behalf of god, man has overstepped his humility . After all those hyjacking those planes on 9/11 truly believed God was on their side. Jingoism is a very dangerous thing and should be kept in the stands at football matches etc. To continue a football analogy teams who are at the top are wise if they don't underestimate their opponents of assume they'll win every game because they are that good. We are ALL products of a higher power. Age and wisdom hopefully brings us closer to our true spirit, one which belongs to god and which I truly believe is borderless, nationless and belongs to no ethnicity. Our need for companionship and sharing here on earth is too often exploited by those who would have us in one group or another. We need support however we don't need to use that support to deny others our humanity. Love on ya Stewart
Citing Germany and Japan as examples of nationalism gone astray is an interesting point, but again, I think that it generalizes over the historical context a bit and seems to imply that every German and every Japanese invdividual subscribed to the notion of national superiority, which of course isn't true. There were a number of underground movements and 'innocents' in both nations whose voices were suppressed by military force. Looking specifically at Japan, nationalism started there in response to colonialism, and their involvement in WWII was in part motivated by the desire to be seen as equals in world affairs, rather than as the 'little Asian siblings' in foreign policy. (Interestingly, as an aside, a similar circumstance also led to the rise of communism in Vietnam...Pol Pot was actually a firm believer in democracy and was enamored with the French and American Revolutions... When he requested assistance in democratizing Vietnam, Pol Pot was rejected by both the US and French governments...leading to the implementation of policies leading to basically cultural and human massacre.)
Both tribe level forms of 'governance' and religion refer to forms of large, organized cultural concepts not present during the 'dawn of mankind,' which I will preferably refer to as humankind, as mankind is a bit sexist. Due to low population density, humans existed largely as nomadic groups which utilized migration within defined territories in order to hunt and gather for sustenance. These types of hunter-gatherer population which characterize early humanity are largely defined as being egalitarian in nature, due to the need to rely upon each other for mutual survival. Incidentally, these forms of hunter-gatherer populations still exist today, though in dwindling numbers, and they do exist without the conflict and warfare which you ascribe to humanity in general. Therefore it is not, as many would presuppose, an inherent trait or characteristic of human existence.
I don't deny that nationalism can be used as a reason for hate, but so can any other number of concepts... skin color, religion, place of abode, the car you drive, etc. I am merely stating that nationalism isn't the only reason for human conflict, and to say that it is the main reason is a gross generalization.
In terms of being responsible for the past, that is the role of government, but is not the role of individuals. Neither I, nor the members of my family, were either alive or had immigrated to the United States during slavery, oppression of Native Americans, etc. Therefore I hold no personal responsibility for 'making up for the sins of my ancestors.' My ancestors would perhaps have claim for retribution from Germany, Great Britain, France, Burma, etc. for instances of colonialism, 'racism,' forced migration, enforced changes in cultural mores, which they were forced to endure. I don't go around asking for retribution from every person of Western European ancestry that I meet... it would be perceived as ridiculous. Being an anthropologist, I am well aware of governmental attempts to provide retribution for past atrocities against minority populations. NAGPRA, for example, was enacted as a means to repatriate archeaological remains to those Native American tribes for which cultural connections can be made between the artifacts and the tribe. This has resulted in the emptying of museums of collections and in the near absence of meaningful archaeological and paleoanthropological research on Native American origins and culture. I am not insensitive to the need for returning artifacts illegally stolen from graves, etc., but in the case of many recent finds in paleoanthropology, i.e. Kennewick Man, the attempt to use NAGPRA to repatriate skeletal remains has become ridiculously convoluted, to involve skeletal remains greater than 10-15kya for which there are no cultural connections to extant Native American tribes. Interestingly, in South America, where colonialism was equally harsh, there are no laws requiring repatriation of artifacts and remains, and there is no conflict between indigenous tribes and researchers.
To say that nationalism or any other form of differentiating ourselves should not exist because of the potential for that concept to be used for ill is a bit of hyperbole for me. Humans have used various methods for millennia to differentiate themselves from others, and have managed to do so without inevitably resorting to conflict or warfare. I do not recall if it was you or another poster, but there was a question about the human need for classifying things. According to linguists like Chomsky, the need for classifying things based upon the emic perspective is wired into the human brain. I do not subscribe to many of the concepts of evolutionary psychology or sociobiology, since they attribute all human personality and motivation to genetics rather than to environment, but it is true that the human brain is subdivided into physiological regions which each have distinct, yet overlapping, fields of function (cerebellum-proprioreception and movement, occipital region- vision, etc.). And from the perspective of actual language development in humans, a common feature of the acquisition and learning of language regardless of culture is the need to make categories of like and unlike items in order to ascribe meaning to objects. The acquisition of language, at the very least, seems to have a genetic basis, and therefore it implies a need for systems of classification in order to develop linguistic skills.
The homogenization of culture has been an unfortunate consequence of globalization, and the result of this homogenization has been the endangerment or extinction of many languages, the loss of biodiversity, and the loss of traditional forms of knowledge which have constituted the important differences among populations. To aspire to the type of homogenization you describe as an effort to rid the world of atrocities and human warfare would be a bit of a hollow achievement, given the substantial loss of culture and knowledge which would accompany such an ethnicity-less, culture-less, and border-less world, and would invariably ignore the natural borders already created by geography, language and culture.
I appreciate your response and believe me I don't disagree that the loss of cultural diversity is problematic in terms of well derived and valuable traditions art, music and pharmacopeia being lost to mankind in general. Perhaps you misunderstand me . The nationalism/ethnic argument is, I believe, definitely not hyperbole as it pertains to many conflicts and their beginnings. That some dissent from the common view is always the case. You misunderstand me if you feel I don't appreciate diversity and want for the globalization of the world. That couldn't be further from the truth . What I ultimately desire is that we celebrate those differences but look beyond them when it comes to accepting one another. That if we accept one another on gods spiritual level the diversity becomes the patchwork of the glorious quilt that is man/womankind as opposed to the reason for conflict. Acceptance of our sameness doesn't mean we cannot be diverse. If I can go back to the quilt analogy then each piece may be made from different threads, different colours and different patterns. Yet all pieces have the same basic DNA of the quilt. We will never be truly us or them because genetically we are all woven from the same cloth. Genetic science as it moves forward is bearing the vast majority of this out. I believe nature's selected randomness is God's way to make this world an interesting place.
Man's need for power and control over his environment have precipitated much good but also much suffering. Unfortunately the urbanization of mankind has made the simple a nomadic life all but impossible except in the most remote places. What may become the future is we will return to that nomadic existence based on a transitory culture driven by climate change social unrest etc.
If you take the former Yugoslavia for example you will find peoples religious and ethnic backgrounds were exploited to the point where neighbour turned against neighbour. Suddenly enthicity and religious diversity became the reason to commit attrocities against those who you once called friends. That's mankind's folly, not the diversity of man, but his inability to see his pathetic humanness and his gullibility in accepting otherwise.
As a student of the Cambodian conflict let me say that Pol Pot's Kmer Rouge were anything but democratic. They practiced a form of nationalistic nihilism and anti intellectualism that knew no bounds. America supported them because, for a time, we thought it better to support anything that was anti Chinese and in doing so could establish a secret front in a country bordering Vietnam. Vietnam being the country in which were entangled in a proxy war against the communists who were being supported by Chinese and Russians. That some at the time were advocating nukes in that conflict or that we "bomb them back to the stone age" speaks loudly to power run amok. I have ultimate respect for those who became, for whatever reason, a part of that conflict and who fought there. That war will always for me be about losing a neighbour and older friend on my block who, being called up, went and did his duty for his country. He lost his life in the jungle ,he, like most at the time, knew nothing of the inner workings of that conflict.His number was picked out of a raffle cage and he proudly went . Now his cross stands next to all those who died along with him .To me he was a hero, to some he was a victim, to god he was a soul lost. Whatever your opinions about that war it's end came too late for him and too many like him.Love on Ya Stewart
I actually agree with you about seeing our differences and moving beyond them... I just disagree about nationalism being the root cause for human conflict. There are so many other causative factors which are equally, and in some cases, much more implicit in human conflict than nationalism. For example, you mentioned religion in an earlier post... Aside from religion, there is ethnicity, perceived biological differences arising from the belief in 'racial' distinctions among humans, etc.
With regards to my post on Pol Pot, it was NOT to imply that he was a great person... quite the opposite. Merely that non-Western nations such as Cambodia, Thailand, Japan, Vietnam, etc. have been construed by the West as diplomatically and humanly inferior to those countries whose governments are derived from a Western European democratic tradition. Ironically, the foreign policies of many Western nations influenced many of these non-Western nations to implement antagonistic policies towards the United States, for example (i.e. Japan's involvement in WWII, Pol Pot's turn towards mass-genocide after an initial enamor of democracy, etc.). One of my professor's at uni here was a 'friend' of Pol Pot, and he described Pol Pot as 'misunderstood' and that his policies were an 'experiment' gone awry. I intensely debated these issues with this particular professor... mainly on the point that experiments are not conducted on a population at large and that he could have ended his policies of mass relocation, forced enslavement and genocide when realizing the errors of this 'experiment.' Although I was the only one in class to question this professor's fondness for Pol Pot, I for one do not share in his romanticism of Cambodia in the 1970s and 1980s, nor for his romanticism of Pol Pot's days in Paris during the 1950s.
I'm a military brat, and certainly appreciate the sacrifices made my servicemen and servicewomen overseas... I certainly respect the sacrifices made by your friend.
Take care y'all! (It's super cold and super snowy here in Michigan)
I have finally read through this whole thread and have nothing more to add the others haven't said already (although more passionately or eloquently than I ever could).
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the debate and reading all the views and opinions. It's given me lots to think about and learn. And, that, in my humble opinion, is never a bad thing.
Feedback: 
We3Kings (), 08:09:32 12/02/10 Thu 