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Date Posted: 12:12:39 04/27/02 Sat
Author: stored
Subject: R1

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:38

RE: "I came to a forum"

If that was the original "Reagan forum", you told the people there that you were a promoter of
witch craft. A wiccan. That was of course a lie. How did you expect people to accept you if
you started out with a lie? How many of those people who wouldn't accept you were
Christians? How do you know that they were?

*Coinkydink
In Response To Murray
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:34

In many of your comments, you reveal and "Us vs Them" mentality. "Watch out for them"
"They will run you in circles" "He was deceptive", but you discount that we who are them are
sincere as well. We have encountered God in a different way than you have, so you discount
us and make us "them", someone to be argued out of it or confronted with the TRUTH, as
though you have it and we "They" don't and can't possibly have. How is that attitude different
from ACNR's?

GerryB.
In Response To CTAJ
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:31

RE: "If He didn't, and if it was indeed free will, then He isn't all-knowning and omnicient.
Once again yoiu are getting foreknowledge and predestination mixed up.

Can't have both choices.
Not trying to. The way that I explained it is not predestination. It is simply being able to foresee
what is going to happen. There are several examples in scripture of Jesus Christ being, God in
human flesh, being able to foresee things. This did not mean that he was the cause of those
things.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Murray
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:29

You say there are some who are different...OK, but how would I find them? What churches
are they hiding in? Isn't it more likely that the snakes like the ones from the ACNR forum are
hiding within the very churches that you all here are attending? An you give me a reason to
believe that it isn't that way?

There are many sincere people here...some I like and some I'm not crazy about. But I also
think the snakes are sincere as well. There are some here who are moved by the Spirit of God,
I've no doubt about that either... but I might have a different opinion about who they are. ;)

Murray
In Response To GerryB
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:26

Now they're going to tell you that, by your comments, you're saying that God does not have
the power to cause events to happen as He wishes and, therefore, He is not omnipotent. The
problem is that you're allowing them to define the terms and the scope of the discussion and
they could keep you running around like a hamster in a cage until they either tire of it or you get
frustrated. They're counting on the latter. Don't say I didn't warn you. Let's see how it plays
out...

GerryB.
In Response To CTAJ
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:24

RE: "If He did, being all-knowing and omnicient, then it wasn't really your choice, was it? You
didn't really have "free will," because it was pre-ordained."

See my 9:20 for the answer to that. Having foreknowledge of what was going to happen is not
the same as predestination. In predestination He would have been the cause of the event.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Good Morning
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:24

Murray: I have attempted to get close to several fundamentalists in the 30 years since leaving
that church, even tried to re-establish friendships within that church group that I'd had for years
before. And invariably have been bitten for it. I came to a forum when my home-partner Jim
died and it was the Christians who treated me with disdain. I have been accused of being in
"league with the devil" for belonging to a different political party. Those same Christians post at
ACNR's and here. What possible reason would I have to try to worship with a group who
were like-minded with them?

GerryB.
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:20

RE: "Let me try to explain it to you. When you decided to give up your decadent life of booze
and whatever other sins you were committing, did God know in advance that you were going
to do that?"

I think that he did but not because He predestined it but because He, being omniscient, could
look ahead down through the corridors of time and foresaw it.

Murray
In Response To Stephen James
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 8:33

Good Morning!

Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 8:02

Bigot.

Murray
In Response To dori
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 6:16

One of the many underhanded things Mormons do is use traditional Christian terminology and
redefine it. Then, they go out in the marketplace and use the terminology amongst those whose
understanding of the terminology is traditional, making them think that Mormonism is the same
as or close to the same as traditional Christianity which it isn't. This is trickery, deceit,
manipulation -- whatever you want to call it. He did not like it when I called him on this, not
one bit. So, yeah, I can see why he was "disillusioned" as you put it. As far as you are
personally concerned, I sat here and watched him having you eat out of his hand. You should
be more careful, Doris, you are very easily charmed. In fact, you're the easiest mark I've ever
seen.

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Doris
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 2:24

Why is it incompatible for an all-knowing and omniscient God to give his children
free-will?

Because words mean things. Stop being a Democrat and think about what the words mean.
It's not like I haven't explained the whole thing many times over, including today, so you should
be able to figure it out.

dori
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 1:41

That is undoubtedly the most ridiculous argument anyone has ever given on this site. Why is it
incompatible for an all-knowing and omniscient God to give his children free-will? Don't you
do the same thing with your child? Do you rule with a tight fist and never give her leeway to
have a conflicting opinion or do you let her test the tethers and come to judgements of her
own, thus allowing her to grow?

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 1:09

Let me try to explain it to you. When you decided to give up your decadent life of booze and
whatever other sins you were committing, did God know in advance that you were going to do
that?

If He did, being all-knowing and omnicient, then it wasn't really your choice, was it? You didn't
really have "free will," because it was pre-ordained.

If He didn't, and if it was indeed free will, then He isn't all-knowning and omnicient.

Can't have both choices.

RonB
In Response To Catholic View - Redemption
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 1:04

The Catholic Church further teaches, that man co-operates in his justification by
co-operating, with perfect freedom, with the grace of God, which prompts and strengthens
him to do penance and amend his life. To be allowed to co-operate with the grace of God,
renders his consolation still greater, for it makes him conscious of a meritorious personal
triumph over his own passions and over the power of Satan.

More of at: Redemption

You also might want to read Desperation, isn't pretty

GerryB.
Friday April 26, 2002 at 23:16

RE: "What is relevant is that God cannot possess the three attributes described and still create
a universe with Man's freewill."

HOGWASH.

dori
In Response To Murray
Friday April 26, 2002 at 23:04

The Mormon you maligned earlier is probably one of the most spiritual people I've ever had
the pleasure of knowing. There wasn't a devious bone in his body. I do know you were his
greatest challenge and he said the very same thing about you in an e-mail to me when he finally
decided to leave R1 for good, having been so disillusioned with his encounter with you. It
seems to me, you were both more alike than you knew, eh?

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