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Date Posted: 12:16:19 04/27/02 Sat
Author: stored
Subject: R1

Religion I


The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an
environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be
challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any
other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is
inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice.
Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not.
--Susan

Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a
backup forum. :)








MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Murray & Ctaj
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:43

I find that when people are actually open to experiencing God as a living being, they are more
apt to accept one another as brothers... all created beings are brothers in that God is our
father. When we see God that way, we cannot see each other as just "the Other"
anymore...we realize that inside we are all related. Of course, some don't need to relate to
God to realize our relatedness. Some are innately tuned into that fact. But psst, Ctaj,
confidentially, I think that is God's Spirit working in them...;)

Murray
In Response To Ctaj
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:39

Might as well welcome it. She sent a clear signal she was done talking along the previous lines.
Right or wrong?

`Ctaj
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:32

Change of subject noted and also welcomed. :)

I'll bet.

Murray
In Response To Coinkydink
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:29

I differentiate between experiential knowledge of God and such comments as "I am sure my
church is the true church." People who have actually experienced God will always find a
kindred spirit with another who has likewise had an experience. Tying up our notion of God
too closely with the church with which we affiliate tells me, "That person does not know Him."

Change of subject noted and also welcomed. :)

*Coinkydink
In Response To Ya'll
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:20

I posted some notes on the alternative Rel1 by my husband, who is giving a lesson in a couple
of weeks at meeting about "Quaker Universalism"... It is not definative about ALL Quakers,
but shows that within our group there is a great difference of opinions about it. Differences are
tolerated in quite a open way within our group and disscussions seldom ever disintegrate into
fighting. The reason for that is that it is accepted that God's Spirit may speak to each of us on a
differnt level of understanding and that we can all still have fellowship in God's love.

Just thought you might enjoy reading the notes. :)

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:19

Seriously, we are all blessed with the ability to make whatever we want of our lives. We were
given a brain, and we are expected to use it. No God is going to do it for us.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:16

God is still working on me. How about you?

Nah, He knows he can't improve on some of his best work.

GerryB.
In Response To CTAJ
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:14

Ok. So it was at 9:58. Hang me for seven minutes. I readily admit that I'm not perfect. God is
still working on me. How about you?

I'm out of here. Got other things to do.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Murray
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:12

We all form our ideas from our experiences or our indoctrination. I think we've about beat that
dead horse into submission. That said, let me apply it to our ideas about God. Those who
experience God, know him exclusively from then on through their experience and are unlikely
to change their minds about God just because someone else comes along and says, "My
experience is more real than yours" or worse, says, "Your expereince of God is invalid,
because of what I believe the Bible says about it." or worse, says, "Your experience must be
of a different God, because it is differnt than mine."

Yes, you're right,,,I'm changing the subject...How clever of you to notice...:)

Murray
In Response To All
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:11

Was Gerry going to get frustrated whether I openly speculated about it or not? Was my
comment indicative of an "us vs them" mentality or a simple glimpse into the facts as they
actually were? Likewise, if Mormons actually are generally deceptive and treacherous in their
dealings, why would there be a problem in simply pointing it out? They sure have been doing a
dance on that polygamy thing.

GerryB.
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:10

God allows bad things to happen to so-called good people because it is His will to do so.
Being a Christian is no guarantee that bad things will never happen to you. This life is only
temporary. The resty of our lives is yet to come. "3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations
also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;"
Romans 5:3(KJV). Sometimes God uses the tribulations of this life to teach us things which He
wants us to know.

I rejoice in the fact that those who died in the WTC who were Christians are in heaven now. I
mourn for the others who had chances to be Christians but weren't.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:05

While I rarely if ever use the term "HOGWASH," I do use such terms as absurd, ridiculous,
nonsense, etc. But then I always follow it with an explanation of my basis in using the term.
You should try doing the same.

`Ctaj
In Response To Talking to himself
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:03

GerryB.
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:01

BTW Your response to me at 9:51 was nothing more than HOGWASH.

You're the only one who posted at 9:51, Gerry.

Murray
In Response To Coinkydink
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:03

"Isn't it more likely that the snakes like the ones from the ACNR forum are hiding within
the very churches that you all here are attending?"

Give us some credit for being discerning, Jeanie. Birds of a feather truly do flock together. It
really is very easy to spot where people are coming from. For the same reason I do not go to
this other forum, I do not hang around people like that IRL. Seemingly, you see people like
what's his name under every rock. I attribute that to negative experiences you have had with
such people. In a very real way, these experiences repeat themselves in your life and this will
continue until you release them. By and other word, this means forgiveness.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Gerry
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:02

"If that was the original "Reagan forum", you told the people there that you were a promoter of
witch craft. A wiccan. That was of course a lie. How did you expect people to accept you if
you started out with a lie? How many of those people who wouldn't accept you were
Christians? How do you know that they were? " If you were there, you know that I told them
that in reaction to the way they treated me. I later told them the truth and some understood and
we are friends today. However some will never try to understand how put off we, who are
"They", can be by the nasty things some Christians say to us.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:02

There are several examples in scripture of Jesus Christ being, God in human flesh, being
able to foresee things. This did not mean that he was the cause of those things.

No, but it does mean that whoever was the cause had no free will to change the outcome.

GerryB.
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 10:01

BTW Your response to me at 9:51 was nothing more than HOGWASH.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:58

Those of you who believe in predesitination, and that God is all-knowing and omniscient, must
be grappling with the WTC attack on 9-11.

Of nearly 40,000 people who worked in those buildings, the last count of dead and missing is
down to 2,823. Did those 2,823 have the wrong beliefs, or the right ones? Were those who
escaped the lucky ones, or God's rejects?

GerryB.
In Response To CTAJ
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:58

I already explained it once this morning to you and that is all that I'm going to do. If you can't
or won't understand it then there is no help for you and I'm not going to waste anymore time on
it. I do have a life away from this forum. I'm going to go live it. Good bye!!!

GerryB.
In Response To Murray
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:54

RE: Your previous comment to me.

Yes, I know that they will get it all confused and use it to attack the scriptures. All I can do is
try to get them to understand. If the don't wish to there is nothing that I can do about it.
SIGH!!!

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:53

Having foreknowledge of what was going to happen is not the same as predestination. In
predestination He would have been the cause of the event.

Either He knew what you were going to do, or He didn't. If He didn't know, He's not
all-knowing and omniscient. If He did know, you didn't have free will. You can dance around
it.

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:51

People are not going to trust you until you show them that you are worthy of their trust.
Especially those who have been the target of your mistrust and bitterness in the past. Why
should they. We who are parents tell our children that if they want to have friends they must be
a friend first. Why should it be any different with adults?

Murray
In Response To Coinkydink
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:46

"In many of your comments, you reveal and "Us vs Them" mentality. "Watch out for them"
"They will run you in circles" "He was deceptive", but you discount that we who are them
are sincere as well. We have encountered God in a different way than you have, so you
discount us and make us "them", someone to be argued out of it or confronted with the
TRUTH, as though you have it and we "They" don't and can't possibly have. How is that
attitude different from ACNR's?"

For discussion's sake, I agree that this conclusion could easily be drawn about me. However,
the important question is, "Can you not see how this, at least in part, also describes you?"

GerryB.
In Response To Jeanie
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:45

RE: "us vs them"

Jesus Christ Himself said, "30He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not
with me scattereth abroad."
Matthew 12:30(KJV)

Sounds pretty "us vs them" to me.

Murray
In Response To Coinkydink
Saturday April 27, 2002 at 9:39

"What possible reason would I have to try to worship with a group who were like-minded
with them?"

None, of course.

My point to you is that, even now after I have made it several times in the past few hours, you
continue to define things by the experiences you have had. And, because you have had
negative experiences with certain folks which you seem unable to release, your negative
outlook conveys to others who may very well be completely undeserving of it. Sometimes
being bitten can be a self fulfilling prophecy and you yourself can actually do a little of it
yourself, which I think you realize. I know a woman who has a great fear of abandonment.
Uncannily, everyone has pretty much walked out on her. Of course, she pushed them out.

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