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Date Posted: 12:17:33 04/25/02 Thu
Author: stored
Subject: R1

Religion I

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The Philosopher's Corner, (and its varied forums) is for those wishing to debate ideas in an environment relatively free of personal attacks. This does NOT mean that ideas are not to be challenged and/or heavily debated. Bringing arguments from another forum to this forum or any other PC forum totally distorts the original message made, gives a biased slant and is inappropriate. Standing firm and making one's case on its own merits is the intelligent choice. Attacking and/or challenging an opinion is fair game.. Attacking someone personally is not. --Susan
Alternative R1 forum
Benefits: length of posts are basically unlimited, and if webforums break down we'll have a backup forum. :)

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MESSAGES IN THIS FORUM ARE PRESENTED AS NEWEST TO OLDEST.
Stephen James
In Response To Coinky
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 14:02

"if we don't destroy the Earth in our selfish rush to have wealth at the expense of nature"
A Christian friend of mine is a very outdoorsy kind of guy, he literally lives off of the land, hunting, trapping, cutting and selling firewood for income. His belief, basically, is that God put this world and everything on it for man to use as we see fit to use it.

For people who live with the idea that Armageddon will begin in their lifetime, what is the point in trying to save anything? To them, there never is going to be a "next generation" to save anything for...we are all soon to die at the hands of God and the world remade, so lets drain this planet...

Murray
In Response To SJ
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 13:53

You ask me the question, "Christians have no use for my views, nor do many take the time to try to understand...please tell me why I should extend this courtesy to you?"

The answer to that question is simple. It is because you accused me of the following, "Yet you wholeheartedly support a religion which has been promoted through the persecution of others."

Ten Megaton Solution
In Response To Stephen James
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 13:44

The problem with any of the "book religions" is that once the reader of the book convinces himself that he's found the truth, he stops looking and actively rejects greater truths if they contradict what he thinks the book says.
Look at all those that think a global flood happened, for example.

Stephen James
In Response To Coinky
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 13:43

"Anyone knows I can't paint with a baby under foot...of course, I will be doing it when she is napping and not in the same room."
Whew!!! I had this awful image of a baby with it's head stuck in a paint can or sitting in the corner licking a paintbrush... ;-)

Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 13:38

"I think it might help you understand my views on religion."
I only truly try to understand someone else's views, especially religious, when they show that they are equally interested, and respectful, in trying to understand my views on religion.

99.9% of all Christians believe they hold the Absolute Truth concerning the Nature of God. They really have no wish to understand, much less even hear, my differing views because they are seen by Christians as "wrong", they don't even have to hear them, just the knowledge that my views are not Christian views is all the info Christians need to claim I am "wrong"...

Christians have no use for my views, nor do many take the time to try to understand...please tell me why I should extend this courtesy to you?

Ten Megaton Solution
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 13:34

While that is true in the case of many Christians, it is not hatred which causes them to point the finger at heathens and admonish them to turn from their sinful ways
Yeah, right! Tell it to your dear friend ACNR. He's as Christian as anyone else.

How do I know this, you ask? Because he says he is, just like you do.

*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 13:30

"People who get upset by Christian admonishment are suffering from a persecution complex, IMO. *-) " You may be right about that, but I think we got it from being persecuted...;)
*Coinkydink
In Response To Stephen
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 13:27

You said, "Get rid of your own cancer and get your own damn food...God ain't gonna do it so save your breath." The way I see it is that God created every good thing to eat...it's all right here on the Earth that he gave us. And somewhere the cure for cancer has been provided and man will find it, if we don't destroy the Earth in our selfish rush to have wealth at the expense of nature. People just don't recognise real wealth when they see it anymore, I guess.
*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 13:19

BTW what is LMGBBBO? I figured "Laugh My Great Big Blue Butt Off"...am I close? ;)
*Coinkydink
In Response To Dori
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 13:17

"I guess you have no idea how harmful it is for a baby to be exposed to paint fumes. Yet you tell me you don't want the likes of me being responsible for the babies of the world? LMGBBBO!" Don't be absurd ... I guess you can't discern a joke when you read one unless it has a "laugh" sign on it. Anyone knows I can't paint with a baby under foot...of course, I will be doing it when she is napping and not in the same room. As a matter of fact, I probably won't be doing it at all, since I fell in my laundry room this morning and now my back is giving me fits...guess that project is on hold a few days.
Stephen James
In Response To Coinky
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:55

"Yet, you concede that I, a lowly atheist, am more driven to the moral and ethical side of living. (BTW, that comes from rationality, not a delusion about the divinity of Jesus.)"
Now how can that be? According to the teachings of Christianity, you are being led by Satan if you come to any other conclusion besides "Jesus was God and the Bible is his book".

Now how is it that many non-Christians lead more morally pure of lives with a demon pulling our strings than many Christians who claim the Holy Spirit guides them? How is that possible...unless the truth is that the HS guides and indwells in all who truly Love God, no Bible thumping/Jesus believing required. And that would also mean Bible thumping is no protection from the influence of Evil.

Murray
In Response To SJ
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:52

"And just what is the "proper" use of prayer?"

To focus your mind on God. To acknowledge who He is. That's a good start anyway.

dori
In Response To One post for the road....
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:48

Re: "Love for your fellow man did not get the Christian religion where it is today, it got there by showing hatred and intolerance for any man/woman opposed to the Bible."
While that is true in the case of many Christians, it is not hatred which causes them to point the finger at heathens and admonish them to turn from their sinful ways. It is love that makes Sim say beware or you face the fires of Hell. I seriously doubt he will be smiling to see others suffer. People who get upset by Christian admonishment are suffering from a persecution complex, IMO. *-)

Murray
In Response To SJ 12:34
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:46

Did you read the thing I wrote entitled, "The Dog Lovers Club?" I think it might help you understand my views on religion. In can be read by clicking here:

THE DOG LOVERS CLUB

Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:46

And just what is the "proper" use of prayer?
Stephen James
In Response To GerryB
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:43

"Most every Christian that I know agrees with me."
Well of course they do, that is why you see them as and respect them as "Christians"...but anyone who places the Label "Christian" on their forehead who does not agree with you gets that label peeled off and you put a new one on them that says "Not a REAL Christian".

You all play the same game, I think it is called the "Your not a Christian if your not my kind if Christian" game. You people ought to thank God for non-Christians...at least when we are around you Christians are not cutting each others throats as often as when we are not around.

Murray
In Response To SJ
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:39

"Oh, so you agree then that prayer is worthless..."

No, I think I would say that the worth of a thing is realized in its proper use.

Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:34

"You even said so yourself. You said God is love and connected dots from there to arrive at the conclusion that love is what it's all about, with which I wholeheartedly agree."
Yet you wholeheartedly support a religion which has been promoted through the persecution of others...Love for your fellow man did not get the Christian religion where it is today, it got there by showing hatred and intolerance for any man/woman opposed to the Bible.

A religion truly from God would have used and been successful using, nothing but Love to drive the Muslims from the Holy Land...as it is, all the worlds religions embrace the sword when it is time to expand. Devil work...IMO.

Stephen James
In Response To Murray
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:25

"People that do not make themselves accessible and available to Him are going to have problems."
Yep, all one has to do is open their hearts to the Love of God...no man needed, no book needed. Thats the Absolute Truth.

"But, to expect God to step in and provide some kind of mystical external rescue is not realistic."

Oh, so you agree then that prayer is worthless...the big ones anyway like "please Lord get rid of my cancer" or "Lord put food on our table"...it is just not realistic to think God is coming to provide some mystical external rescue. Get rid of your own cancer and get your own damn food...God ain't gonna do it so save your breath.

Yep, that's life..your on your own.

Murray
In Response To Ctaj
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:12

In honor of our friendship, I won't post anything of the sort. This offer is good for the next five minutes and is void where prohibited by law. Does not apply in states beginning with "M," which are Maine, Massachusetts, Maryland, Michigan, Missouri, Minnesota, Montana and Mississippi, because I feel like it.
`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 12:04

Most every Christian that I know agrees with me.
You need to get around more. Most every Christian I know has a different interpretation.

`Ctaj
In Response To GerryB
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 11:54

I can easily prove you wrong on that. My Pastor agrees with me on the historic doctrines of the Christian faith. Most every Christian that I know agrees with me.
I'm still waiting for your proof.

To paraphrase Maximillian again, "If fifty million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

`Ctaj
In Response To Murray
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 11:51

I won't quibble with you about external or internal or whether it originates within our own consciousness. I'm coming to detest quibbling. Doesn't seem to jive with love very well lots of times.
Good. I hope that means we won't be hearing any more claims that you pretend to know what will happen after "the body drops." That forces me to quibble.

GerryB.
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 11:42

RE: I've never seen any two people agree on everything when it comes to Christianity. A real God would have written a less ambiguous book."
I can easily prove you wrong on that. My Pastor agrees with me on the historic doctrines of the Christian faith. Most every Christian that I know agrees with me. BTW I have no special education in Christian doctrine. I am a simple high school graduate from the class of 1956. Yet most everything which I know about Christianity I learned from the Bible. Not too ambiguous if a simpleton like me can read it and get it right.

Murray
In Response To Ctaj
Thursday April 25, 2002 at 11:35

I won't quibble with you about external or internal or whether it originates within our own consciousness. I'm coming to detest quibbling. Doesn't seem to jive with love very well lots of times.

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