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Subject: Re: Diatribe Author: "help" [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ] Date Posted: 09:55:21 04/17/03 Thu In reply to: Steve Gagne 's message, "Diatribe" on 01:15:59 04/08/03 Tue I just wanted to thank you all for the input. I don't agree with some of those here either - and like ficotw for the same reasons - although it has it's scary side at times too. I think the advantage of boards like this one and that are that the messages disappear eventually. Stephen - 5/8 forgiven - I have seen you around, and appreciate your candor. I disagree with you too on a couple of points - but like your path of logic. Randy - I have not said this to you personally, though I have seen you around for years too. I think you are weird - and Roman Catholicism is just plain scary to me a simple protestant. Note: Congratulations on "Monseignor" (sp?) - LOL. Again, I agree to that we should be able to agree on all but the most obvious and blantant issues (Jesus as Son of God, His sacrifice for our sins, salvation by faith) - the rest tends to be 'extra' I think. So, next question. If this is an example of 'non'-denominationalism, what would real non-denominationalism look like? I am to understand there is a difference between 'interfaith' and 'non-denominationalism', but it seems the best 'non-denom's' tend toward 'inter-faith' to me. If you have an example - please give it. Thanks. [ Next Thread | Previous Thread | Next Message | Previous Message ]

Replies:

[> [> [> Subject: Points of correction Author: Rev Msgr Randy Kemp, Ph.D. - www.unlimitedgrace.net [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 10:52:13 04/17/03 Thu ---> Steve Talking <--- Randy - I have not said this to you personally, though I have seen you around for years too. I think you are weird - and Roman Catholicism is just plain scary to me a simple protestant. Note: Congratulations on "Monseignor" (sp?) - LOL. -------------------------------------------------------- ---> Randy's reply <---- If you think I am wierd, Steve, I wonder what you think about the holy fool tradition of the Eastern Orthodox Church? See http://www.incommunion.org/fools.htm ---------------------------------------------------------- And just a footnote here. Catholic really means "universal church" and is not limited to Roman Catholicism. You have to include the Eastern Orthodox churches (Greek, Russian, etc), all the churches in the Anglican communion (Church of England), and any church derived from any of the above churches (for example - the Old Roman Catholic Church, which succeeded from the RC over the issue of papal primacy). And now some of the Lutheran church are part of apostolic succession, like those in some countries in Europe or part of the Anglican communion (after all, wasn't Martin Luther a Catholic reformer in his original intention?) Personally, my theology is an Anglican/Eastern Orthodox hybrid and NOT Roman Catholic. ----------------------------------------------------------- The title of monsignor in the Catholic tradition is no different or stranger then one being called Bishop or regional elder in UCFM. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Points of correction Author: Mr. "Help", or joefisher [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 19:46:45 04/17/03 Thu Sorry Randy, I am not steve. I apologize for any confusion. I am posting under a pseudonym for my own reasons - like, I was told to (go figure that one out, I can't - and it has nothing to do with MarkM either). I mean you are weird in the nicest possible way, but I will explain it. As a simple John 3:16 is it - type protestant, a lot of your mysticism/ orthodox/ Catholic posts are generally quite confusing to me personally. This has nothing to do with you of course. It is my personally lack of understanding. But I will not deny, some of your posts I have often been left wondering - "am I supposed to understand"? I guess, and this isn't a shot, you are just to 'deep' for me sometimes. As someone notice the free email addy, also under an assumed name I borrowed from a friend, I will use it here. -joefisher [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Points of correction Author: steve [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 02:54:22 04/18/03 Fri psst, Randy -- that wasn't me steve [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Points of correction Author: Tom Donoho [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:13:00 09/03/03 Wed Whoa! I believe the title of "monsignor" (translated as "my lord", similar to the French use/translation in that language) is a totally honorific one bestowed by the Roman Cathoilc Church upon a priest who at one time or another was "attached" to the Vatican City or former papal estates. It is not the same as bishop or elder. That's my understanding. A good source of information for some Roman Catholic titles is "The A to Z of the Holy See" (the author escapes me at present). Blessings... [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Points of correction Author: Tom Donoho [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 08:27:22 09/03/03 Wed I tried to edit my response in the matter of "monsignor" but it wouldn't let me do it. Just wanted to change "estates" to "states" and mention that "monsignor" is also conferred on a priest of advanced age in lieu of an actual "promotion". It is an honorific and courtesy title. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Sorry Steve - my mistake Author: Rev Msgr Randy Kemp, Ph.D. - www.unlimitedgrace.net [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:00:33 04/17/03 Thu Sorry Steve. I thought you were posting. I don't put much stock or faith in the words of someone replying who is too shy or frightened to identify themselves. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: IP address lookup Author: Rev Msgr Randy Kemp, Ph.D. - www.unlimitedgrace.net [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:09:46 04/17/03 Thu If you go to IP monster at http://www.ipmonster.com/ you can gather a lot of information about our unknown poster. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Re: Diatribe Author: MarkM [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 11:26:19 04/17/03 Thu Hi Diatribe, welcome! I too appreciate peoples candor, and when people understand that message boards (as with this one) are FORUMS. Forums: © 2003 by Merriam-Webster: "A public meeting place for open discussion c : a medium [as with a Internet message board] of open discussion or expression of ideas.... a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion" I hope this message board will serve as a good medium for discussion. My hopes are that it will be a place of intelligent discussion and not a place that breaks down into rude name calling during such discussion. I understand full well that the topic of religion is one of deep personal experience, and when a doctrine one holds is challenged, often people take it as a personal attack. This can cause a break down in communication resulting in quick reactions and then rude name calling. May we all be a little thick-skinned, be forgiving, and ask for forgiveness when our emotions get the best of us and they will sometimes. Now about: "...what would real non-denominationalism look like.." I understand a true nondenominational Church is one that stands alone, that it is not connected to a net-work of other local churches, who all agree on a set statement of faith or stated doctrines. Most often people think of it as being churches not affiliated with the major Christian denotations. RE: "...difference between 'interfaith' and 'non-denominationalism.." ))snip(( Much of what is referred to as "nondenominational" is actually "interdenominational". So what's the difference? "Interdenominational" accepts all beliefs, "Nondenominational" rejects all man-made doctrines and strives to follow only what the Bible teaches. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Hello Joe Fisher Author: Rev Msgr Randy Kemp, Ph.D. - www.unlimitedgrace.net [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 12:24:20 04/17/03 Thu If you click on help under the help message, the email identify says Joe Fisher. I didn't find you in the UCFM roaster, so I wonder what your association is with UCFM - if any. Care to share some background? (If that is your real name!) [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> Subject: Re: Hello Joe Fisher --- NOT ME !! Author: MarkM [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:17:34 04/17/03 Thu I don't know what you did but when I clicked on properties I got this: "mailto:markm@minister.com" The above is my E-mail address, I am a member of UCFM, Ordained by UCFM, and Pastor Fred has aloud me to be an Asst. ADMIN. of this board. I know the Message Board password, and its be me who has been changing backgrounds, lines, and editing the board. I also wrote the terms of service for this board. Randy we have been posting for sometime, you know me, what’s up, why the questions? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> [> [> Subject: Randy I hope ..... Author: MarkM [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 17:40:02 04/17/03 Thu ...."HELP's" use of the word -weird- did not upset you to much. I debated deleting, but that would have deleted your reply’s also and I did not want to do that. Therefore, I made my little speech about Forums and us not breaking down into name calling and that we need to be a little thick-skinned when posting in forums. You OK? [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: Hello Mark! Author: Rev Msgr Randy Kemp, Ph.D. - www.unlimitedgrace.net [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 18:44:00 04/17/03 Thu Hello Mark. No. It is hard to get me upset! But if someone does mention people by name - with commentary - then I feel they should public identify themselves. Right? I tried clicking on where it says "author help", both at my home and work computers, and it says Joe Fisher. And I know I'm not crazy or taking anything not prescibed by a physician. [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> Subject: I'm Sorry Already Author: JoeFisher [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 20:10:39 04/17/03 Thu OK, just for clarification. ON THIS BOARD I have been ASKED to use a psydonym if I am going to be 'open and honest' and speak my own mind. So I am doing that. Since I am sure some of you hackers out there enjoy the challenge, yes, you could probably figure it out easily enough. Just keep me out of trouble, please, by keeping it to yourself when you do. Randy, I apologize again for the use of the term 'weird' - I think if I had posted as the name you might recognize, it would never have been taken wrong. Yes, I was trying to poke a little fun at you, but more due to my lack of ability to keep up with you - which is something I know many people can't do. Let me say I have defended you before - and talked to you before. Please respect my anonymity on this issue. At some time, in another forum perhaps - I would like more information from you on the mysticisms and rituals you often speak of, for my own educations sake. NOW - to the point of the questioning: IF I understand MarkM's post correctly, there is no such thing as an 'organization' of non-denom. church's. He indicates that they would stand alone. I would like this expanded on - I don't believe it to be wholy true. I also noticed MarkM's post on doctrine, which I loved. Given this, I ask, a lot of the 'man made doctrine's' come from us trying to interpret the Bible in areas it is less than clear - to our insect-like understanding. Is it wrong to attempt the understanding? Is it correct to 'play down' some of these issues - with the knowledge that if it was supposed to be clear, it would be (this is my view, btw). For background purposes, I am a member on one hand of a denomination that is about as non-denominational as you can get, and a non-denomination that is about as denominational as you can get - and am looking for others experiences. Bro. Randy, specfically, where does non-denominationalism and it's stance on "Bible Only" fit it with Tradition for you? This is an honest question - not intended to poke fun at you. I do respect you opinions and knowledge, even where we differ (greatly at times). Thank you all for your understanding. -joefisher [ Post a Reply to This Message ]

[> [> [> [> Subject: Apology accepted Author: Rev Msgr Randy Kemp, Ph.D. - www.unlimitedgrace.net [ Edit | View ] Date Posted: 04:13:14 04/18/03 Fri Joe: The bible only is called "Sola Scriptura". While I respect my protestant brothers and sisters, I have to disagree that only a written tradition was given, and we also have an oral tradition handled down by the apostles. And I closely side with the Eastern Orthodox theologians on this issue. Considering that protestant apologists are still debating with Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox apologists on this topic, let's both adknowledge that this would be a big division between a Catholic and Orthodox outlook, and a protestant one. But I would add this. Protestants are NOT in agreement over what holy scripture means or who correctly hears the voice of the Holy Spirit. If they did, then you wouldn't have thousands of different protestant denominations, each with their own spin on things. Randy [ Post a Reply to This Message ]