Subject:  Diatribe |
Author:
Steve Gagne
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Date Posted: 01:15:59 04/08/03 Tue
In reply to:
help
's message, "Is the UCFM a denomination" on 00:51:26 04/04/03 Fri
I speak as one who has the "advantage" of usually being ignored. So no one attempts to enlist my support, and I get more opportunity to see things objectively.
(1) Just because the UCFM has a 'statement of faith' - is it in reality, a denomination, and if so, why?
Yes, the UCFM is a denomination. Not only does it have a statement of faith, there are a set of secondary or secular issues which are considered "litmus tests" for membership, and people are are either driven out or disavow their own membership based on questions of conscience. This appears to be because, as a faith community ("denomination"), each feels he is his brother's keeper, and feels responsible for the the points of faith, religious and secular, that his brother holds. Examples:
(a) the vilification I received when I first joined two years ago by a number of members on several occasions, because they couldn't stand either my sense of humor nor any message of prophecy I attempted to share;
(b) the choice by Randy to withdraw because he felt his catholicism to be "inconsistent" with the UCFM statement of faith (ratified by the rabid anti-catholic bigotry expressed by many members here);
(c) the choice and decision to drive out Dr. Walter Abington over a secular issue (and leave district #1 without a bishop at the time when Pastor Fred already has his hands full). This was STUPID. Not unforgiveable, but a definite mistake and a sin against the Body of Christ;
(d) the choice by Carla to withdraw due to the anger and hostility in the polemics of advocates of various doctrinal positions;
(e) the choice by Mark to withdraw due to perceived doctinal impurities on the part of the membership.
Okay so I take all this personally (not very surprising -- I am, after all, a person). Perhaps every denomination (cult) has a shaking-out period. But small-mindedness like that reported above gives rise to the observation:
"The Name of our God is blasphemed amongst the Gentiles because of you."
(2) Is denominationalism 'bad', or does it just provide a place for like minded believers to worship?
Denominationalism is condemned in Scripture:
10. I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
11. For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brethren.
12. What I mean is that each one of you says, "I belong to Paul," or "I belong to Apollos," or "I belong to Cephas," or "I belong to Christ."
13. Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
14. I am thankful that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius;
15. lest any one should say that you were baptized in my name.
16. (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any one else.)
17. For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. (I Cor.1:10-17 RSV)
There are those who seek only to empty the Cross of its power.
And yet our God is the God of History, and makes His Will known in and through the history of man. The facts will always remain that the Church Visible, the Church Militant went astray at least 600 years ago, and the LORD God Almighty raised up denominationalism as a rebuke to the Church Visible, as he raised up the Chaldeans in rebuke to a stiff-necked Israel (Habakkuk 1:5-11). Each of the faithful have been held in Naziritic separation and consecration, no matter what denomination, in anticipation of the corporate repentance of the Church. It has taken this long for the Church to correct its errors. But now that the errors are being withdrawn, the reasons for our Naziritic separation from the Church Visible are passing away. WE ARE THE CHURCH. THE CATHOLIC CHURCHES ARE **OURS** NO LESS THAN OUR OWN LOCAL CONGREGATIONS. AND THE ESTABLISHED CURIA HAVE NEITHER RIGHT NOR POWER TO STAND IN OUR WAY. VICTORY IN THE GOSPEL!
(3) What, in your view, if the UCFM ISN'T a denomination, makes it different? (No 'webster's dictionary' terms - I have one too - I want your opinions).
I just checked the webpage with the statement of beliefs. The statement of beliefs make it clear that the first thing "WE" believe is important is "WE". Not God the Father. Not Jesus, the Son of the Living God. Not the Holy Ghost, Spirit of Truth and the Lord of Life. Not the Bible. Who and what "WE" are.
I guess that makes "WE" special.
Every other website I found, which spoke of believing the Bible, put the Bible first as an idol, like some holy object with a secret, magical, sacramental power to work wonders in peoples' lives, independent of the Holy Spirit's working's in one's soul and spirit. It's amazing how many so-called believers think God comes in second place after the Bible.
So I guess "WE" are not idol worshippers like everyone else. Just self-centered, selfish, stubborn, unforgiving, and lacking in Christian charity. And if you're inclined to say "speak for yourself, buddy" then you've already been convicted of every word I've written here:
10. As for a man who is factious, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him,
11. knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned. (Titus 3:10-11, RSV)
========================================================
So you can see why I didn't post this over at the new board -- I'd be getting an invite to join Walter. The thing is, Carla, Rod, and Mike prayed me out of a potential cult situation in my personal life just a few months ago. And now we see signs of it happening here. Hmmphhh.
stephen the 5/8 forgiven
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Hi Steve, you misunderstood my position...
Re: Hello Joe Fisher --- NOT ME !!
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