What do You think? -- WASHINGTON BOARD

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Date Posted: 14:19:34 07/08/02 Mon
Author: Normal
Author Host/IP: NoHost / 12.110.236.157
Subject: What do You think?

Normal
Laying aside ethics, morals, and feasibility,
Sat Jun 15 15:11:41 2002
12.110.236.181

What if Mother Theresa could be cloned and placed with a family that didn't know who she was. One that would be sure to see to it that she recieved the highest possible education in Philosophy, science, etc.

Do you believe that her genetic makeup will influence her character?

Suppose Andrea Yates were cloned?

If the tendency to become an alcoholic can be inherited, why / why not violence or saintliness?

Donk
Re: Laying aside ethics, morals, and feasibility,
Sun Jun 16 09:52:51 2002
12.85.13.214

There is no doubt genetics predispose people to certain behaviors, but influences are so diverse and numerous, it would be a real leap to assume final expressions of those predispositions. While it is absurd to think we're all mentally identical, although we physically vary by wide degrees, it is equally absurd to assume mental abilities alone define us.

Mother teresa, in my view, is defined by perceptions, so she is similar to an institution. But, I think that she evolved to be who she was due, in large part, to her interactions. That is, she could have turned her energies to other pursuits with equal fervor and she would have been as unusual there. Value judgements are part of who we perceive her to be, but Hitler was no less intent and skilled in his pursuits.

I'm not sure the values we place on deeds help define the persons. In Yates' case, her mental arrangement might have produced a genius in another time and place, but she was directed to motherhood which was probably the last place she needed to be. Was Edgar Allen Poe a guy you'd want at your pool party? Probably not, but that doesn't change the genius he was able to express.

This morning, Picasso's granddaughter talked about his failure as a grandfather as though it were significant. Hard to understand why a strange artist was also required to be a good grandfather and, of course, that "good" would be defined by her. Hmmmm.

cck
We are not our bodies.
Sat Jun 15 18:52:12 2002
216.107.4.23
The body and mind you are using now is only a �loner.' Our minds/spirits do not reside in this physical dimension, but only link to it when a brain begins to function. When a brain stops functioning the mind/spirit gets disconnected from this physical plane and must search for another link.
Cloning anyone will not recreate the same mind/spirit that set of DNA once had. If we made a hundred clones of the same person, each will have a different mind/spirit.

Normal
Interesting take.
Sat Jun 15 20:26:36 2002
12.110.237.6
OK, since you have a spiritual view of individuality, do you believe environment affects spirit?

cck
Everything affects everything else. ;o)
Sun Jun 16 19:18:27 2002
216.107.3.99

The Universe is a continual feedback loop. We are affected by everything, and our reactions to any stimuli changes the universe. And so it goes, around and around, where it comes out nobody knows! ;o)

You cannot separate the mind from the universe, they are dimensions all rolled up together and interconnected. What we perceive changes the universe, and when the universe changes, it changes what we perceive.

cck
also...
Sun Jun 16 19:41:33 2002
216.107.3.99

"I just wondered how much a person can be separated from the forces that formed their response mechanism.

It depends on the spirit of the person. Is the mind and soul strong enough to rebel against its environment? A scoundrel soul can be born into any environment and still be a scoundrel. A saintly soul will still be a saint.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, most souls are not born at either extreme, most are a little of both. Environment and opportunity can sway it either way. A good soul can repent and change its ways. A scoundrel soul wont give a damn.

Normal
So, then
Sun Jun 16 21:50:46 2002
12.110.237.48

the soul is the basic ingredient in character and personality. Then if souls are born, rather than raised, how does this effect your views of crime and punishment?

wildrose
definitely!
Sat Jun 15 17:51:22 2002
204.154.247.30

I don't believe that environment has any influence on who you are...only in what you become based on who you were to begin with. Does that make any sense? I think we are born with our basic character...and how we react to our environment and therefore, what we ultimitely become is based on our initial makeup. I have 4 children, all very close in age and all completely different people, from the very beginning. I have a daughter that is so like my mother it is scary...and she was only 3 when my mom died...and I can see traits of our other relatives in all my kids...they were born close together, basically had the same environmental influences yet are very different people with varying degrees of morals and ethics...

I believe that Sister Teresa would end up Sister Teresa no matter what the environment she was raised in...there may be some differences in the external circumstances of her life...where she lived and worked..but the basic's would remain the same...

As for Andrea Yates...her tendency towards mental illness was predisposed, imho....and given a different life style and married to a different person, the results of her life may have been different...but most likely, her genetic makeup would give her a tendency to marry the same kind of man and end up with the same illness...and the same lack of care.

wildrose : )

Normal
Hi, Wildrose
Sat Jun 15 20:24:20 2002
12.110.237.6

Thanks for such a thoughtful answer.

In the book "Inside the Brain" some of the researchers did studies on inner city kids, and found that they, being formed and born into stressful environments, meant that the production of adrenalin being a more common event in their lives that they learned to react with aggression, etc. That nearly all the children in the study had chemical imbalances to one degree or another. They also were affected by poor diet, lack of physical and or emotional contact with a nurturing parent, who was a part of the same pattern. I don't remember for sure, but I believe they even claimed it became genetic.

So, suppose one of these children were adopted into your family at birth, then what?

wildrose
LOL...deep waters here...
Sat Jun 15 21:37:33 2002
204.154.247.39

perhaps too deep...I may end up arguing the other side of this..First, on Mother Teresa...she was such a strong personality...such an exceptional individual, that I do think she would be an exception to any general rule..

I know where you're thinking is...and I don't disagree...environment can effect to a great degree a person's sucess or failure in this life...personally and financially...a person who has never had the benefit of good parenting will have many difficulties being a good parent...a person who has known nothing but abuse has an overwhelming odds that they will be unable to sucessfully relate to other people...a person brought up among people who do not work, will not know how to work..and this is through no fault of theirs...but there is always the individual who rises above whatever adversities they were born into and those individuals who are born with all the advantages who don't/can't take advantage of them. Have you ever seen the phenomena of the nicest people you know having the rottenest kids? What we are born with...strengths and weaknesses...determine how our environment effects us.

A child born of parents in extreme poverty and adopted into my family at birth will be who they are..shaped by whatever envirnment I provide...both good and bad, since I am a human with all the usual foibles of the species...and effected by whatever envirnmental forces stay with a child even into different living conditions. In other words, LOL, I don't have a clue...

wildrose : ) glad to see you here...keep asking the good questions...

Normal
Thanks, Wildrose
Sat Jun 15 22:52:28 2002
12.110.237.6

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Replies:

Re: What do You think? -- Southern Gent, 23:04:43 07/10/02 Wed
- Re: What do You think? -- Donk, 18:44:47 07/14/02 Sun
  - Well, then -- Normal, 22:19:02 07/14/02 Sun
    - Re: Well, then -- Southern Gent, 23:13:07 07/15/02 Mon
      - Re: Well, then -- Normal, 23:47:16 07/15/02 Mon
    - Re: Well, then -- Donk, 22:16:20 07/18/02 Thu
      - Re: Well, then -- Normal, 23:06:36 07/18/02 Thu