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Date Posted: 09:17:17 07/21/04 Wed
Author: Purple71
Subject: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends
If the posters are to be believed, Colgate, our sister Patriot League school, deep sixed us in favor of QU and then Niagara. Very interesting that a school that shares the value system of the PL found QU a more fitting partner for hockey than HC. We have been playing Colgate since before I entered the Cross in '67 and they vote against us? Shows how strong those Patriot League ties are... Also, the Ivies were quick to embrace a Junior Ivy PL member as well, or not????
I am posting a link to an intersting link on LaSalle's troubles from the Siena Board: http://www.arborwood.com/awforums/show-topic-1.php?start=11&fid=7155&taid=1&topid=2672
This shows how most of the rest of college hoops views HC's continuted PL affiliation: an attempt to get a cheap ticket to the dance by playing is one of the weakest conferences imaginable. Of course, they must be jealous of HC's academics which made the Cross such a strong contender for the support of the Ivies and Colgate in it's recent ECAC bid.
In short, there is no tradition or sense of loyalty in the PL and the sooner we get out, the better. This ECAC situation is an interesting wake up call to those you follow the PL theory of superiority nad onemindedness... it's a myth!!!
There has to be a middle ground between the LaSalle situation and the PL, we need to find it before we use up all our athletic tradition in the PL and it is gone for ever.
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- Sader81, 09:56:30 07/21/04 Wed
The Ivy's sold HC down the river in helping to form the PL; and Fr. Brooks bought into it. Lehigh, Layfayette and Bucknell have a long history together - it would not surprise me to see them throw HC under the bus if the situation presented itself.
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- dadominate, 10:49:13 07/21/04 Wed
this is further testament that there are no (read ZERO) benefits to patriot league affiliation. if colgate and the ivies don't support one of their league brethren/historical opponents in a situation like this then what is having a relationship with them really worth?
i am starting to see why some of you older guys are so frustrated with holy cross athletics. joining, and continuing to stay in, the patriot league was akin to athletic suicide. it's too bad it seems we'll never make the move, but if it was up to me i'd be AGGRESSIVELY exploring all options to bolt this conference today and never look back!
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- PatriotFan, 10:55:43 07/21/04 Wed
OK wise guys, what league would suggest that a school with 2,700 students and no scholarships compete in?
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- dadominate, 11:02:25 07/21/04 Wed
while i was against it before, i'd actually be in favor of a move to the MAAC. yes, i am eating my words purple71! at least the other schools might go to bat for us there, and the level of hoops (the sport that can generate the most interest at HC and in worcester) is clearly superior.
if it's true colgate voted for quinnipiac, this is just another wake-up call to fr. mcfarland that it's time to put this (failed) patriot league experiment behind us!
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- PatriotFan, 16:19:25 07/21/04 Wed
Joining the MAAC would crush admissions. At least we can compare ourselves now to Colgate, Bucknell and Lafayette. Would you rather have kids think about the MAAC schools at the same time as Holy Cross? MAAC football? MAAC soccer? MAAC baseball? MAAC lacrosse? Yeecch.
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- Purple71, 19:17:42 07/21/04 Wed
Get a grip on reality. Very, very few kids consider the Pl in making their applicaiton to the Cross. As one who had done Alumni Admissions and scholarship interviewing for years, I have yet to hear a kid so he or she chose HC because of the PL. I am hearing all too frequently that they chose the Cross because they got waitlisted at BC.
The PL affiliation plus is a fiction of your imagination. It does allow however mediocre basketball programs to offer an excuse for their mediocrity.
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"A League of Their Own" -- HC1843, 11:03:09 07/21/04 Wed
wah wah wah
Cheers.
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- Sienafan, 15:20:18 07/21/04 Wed
If I may, I'd just like to add my two cents. A lot of us MAACers would love to have Holy Cross back in the MAAC. You are a strong academic instituion and your athletics are top notch as well. You would not be a drain on the RPI, you would improve it. My understanding is that the MAAC approached you guys, but you were not interested. If you change your mind, give us a call.
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- Purple71, 16:54:25 07/21/04 Wed
The College's new Admissions web page has the following statement:
Our membership in the Patriot League, an NCAA Division 1 League that makes the academic and personal development of each player a high priority, demonstrates our commitment to excellence in learning.
Unfortunately the administrations of the College since Father Brooks have bought into that philosophy rather than the Jesuit tradition of excellence once pursued on all levels at Holy Cross. Father Brooks bought the Ivies' line about wanting to continue to play HC but being unwilling to do so as long as well offered scholarships. Well we just got our wake up call from the ECAC and as BC gets more selective than HC in admissions and Notre Dame graduates a higher percentage of its student athletes, I wonder about the justification of staying mired in the mediocrity of the Patriot League, at least in basketball. For football, it is a great fit as fewer and fewer schools are fielding teams. In hoop, to play before 212 at Colgate is obsurd, given that Colgate apparently voted against our application to join the academicly prestigous ECAC in hockey.
We took the wrong fork in the road a while back and need to rethink our situation. We can have excellence in academics and hoop, it's just that excellence and the Patriot League are opposite ends of the athletic spectrum in terms of Division 1 basketball. Not so in football, but hoops has always been the Cross' signature sport although kids today never heard of Bob Cousy and Tom Heinsohn.
I would trade playing in front of 10,000 in Albany for playing in front of 212 in Hamilton any day. I also don't believe that our academic reputation would suffer from joining the MAAC. I also think the geography of the MAAC makes more sense, particularly if we were to come in for Loyola.
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- Purple fanz, 20:11:19 07/21/04 Wed
Not a bad point, but I think you are wrong in one way - ND does not graduate a higher percent of its athletes than HC.
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- Purple71, 09:10:57 07/22/04 Thu
Don't mean to make too much of it but the ND graduation rate is 92%, as per the NCAA statistics while the HC rate is 90% as per same statistics. See: http://www.holycross.edu/departments/publicaffairs/hcm/fall02/news/gradrate.html.
The point being the those who feel so damn intellectually superior because we are in the PL need a reality check as there are other instituions with excellent academic credentials who manage to play real Division 1 basketball. I recognize that HC doesn't have the resources to engage in D-1 footbal but certainly it has the resources to be competitive in D1 hoops.
However, this is an oft debated point and I am not going to change anyone's mind. The ECAC gave all you PL fans a wake up call and if that doesn't work, nothing will.
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Re: Benefits of the PL and our Ivy Friends -- PROTON, 20:17:46 07/21/04 Wed
My kid is an athlete at Holy Cross. In addition to the academics, part of the appeal was the quality of play in his sport in the Patriot League, even though his team has historically been weak. Much more fun to play Navy, even if you get your butt kicked, than to have a laugher vs. Siena. If Holy Cross was in the MAAC, he wouldn't have applied, either for the academics, or the athletics. No comparison.
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