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Date Posted: 14:50:36 07/14/04 Wed
Author: JRGNYR
Subject: All is not lost
Let's reel ourselves in here. I'm beginning to understand why there are some Patriot League fans out there who call HC and its alumni, followers and fans elitist. The way some of you have reacted following the news of Quinnipiac's invitation to the ECAC and HC's tentative invitation has made me think that perhaps some of their concerns are legitimate.
We wanted HC to become a member of the ECAC, and now it appears there is a positive step towards that end. Yet because QU is receiving an outright invitation and HC is receiving one with conditions, some of you feel we have been sold down the river by our Ivy League companions. Not only that, but some are also saying that we are receiving sloppy seconds. To that I say...
GET A HOLD OF YOURSELVES!!
Look, I want HC to be in the ECAC as much as the rest of you. But I'm not going to complain that QU got in and HC may get in but with a condition. We didn't finish second to Quinnipiac here, and I wish some of you would stop looking at it that way. Academics was not the only criteria being examined in this move, and anybody who assumed that would be the only contributing factor was foolhardy.
In recent days, in some posts there was a feeling that HC was perhaps entitled to the ECAC, and it's that sense of entitlement that is leading to the disappointment that there is somebody (Quinnipiac) sharing the headlines right now regarding the ECAC expansion. As far as we know, HC is in provided we upgrade the women's program. We knew this would be an issue. If this is indeed the case, all the ECAC is saying is "We'll let you in, but you gotta get this done by such and such date." What this does is put the responsibility SOLELY on the athletic department to get that done. But we knew HC would have to upgrade their women's program to get this done, and this news, if true, confirms that's the case.
Look at it this way...it's better that this be the condition than the ECAC saying "you're in only if you provide scholarships." Because you know that would have had a harder time getting done on Mt. St. James than upgrading the women's program.
So let's all calm down and wait and see what happens. Obviously the ECAC sees potential in Holy Cross as a member. We have location and academics going for us, and if the news story is true, the one thing holding HC back is moving the women's program up to D-I. If the administration doesn't do that, then we can direct all of our anger and resentment not at the ECAC, and not at Quinnipiac, but at the very institution from which many of us matriculated.
The future of Holy Cross hockey now rests firmly in the hands of the administration...and I hope to God they take it seriously and make the right move.
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Re: All is not lost -- HCsader2207, 15:03:46 07/14/04 Wed
you're right, all is not lost...
but that does not make the sting of being second to Quinnipiac(!!!) among a committee of schools for which twenty five years ago we sacraficed our place in the upper tier of D1 athletics any less painful and embarassing. As other posts have sated this just cements one more time that the decision to become the underappreciated stepchild of the ivy league has done nothing for the school, athletically and academically.
The alums and students have a right to feel outrage and post their laments because the remarkable memories of the past just make the present that much more painful.
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Re: All is not lost -- JRGNYR, 15:11:41 07/14/04 Wed
I still don't think it's fair to think the Ivies sold us down the river on this one, especially since we don't know the facts. Unless somebody here has inside knowledge of what each Ivy institution voted or said regarding inviting HC to the conference, it is not right to point fingers at them.
That said, if you want to be angry about this, go ahead and do so. If I may speculate for a minute, the immediate thought in my mind is the HC administration has dragged its feet with the ECAC regarding moving up the women's program, and it finally got to the point where the ECAC is saying "If you want in so badly, then you absolutely have to upgrade the women's program." It is not unlike the Patriot League saying to an institution "If you want to join us in football, you have to join us in everything." It's not entirely the same, since the ECAC carries more weight in college hockey than the Patriot League does in college basketball/football. That goes without saying.
And if you want to somehow link this to Fr. Brooks and what happened in the late 70s, go right ahead. But I don't see how that is quite justified. If we are to believe that the women's program is all that is holding HC back from future entry to ECAC, then to me all this has done is confirmed the obvious.
The Ivies don't owe us a thing. Our own administration screwed with the competitiveness of the sports programs in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. I think we need to start assigning blame where it is due. Yes, Fr. Brooks bowed to Ivy League pressure. Ultimately he pulled the trigger on the decisions that castrated the basketball and football programs though. Nobody from Harvard or Yale or Dartmouth came in and assumed control of HC's destiny for long enough to alter HC's athletic future. The responsibility ultimately lies with HC, then and now.
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Re: All is not lost -- HCsader2207, 15:32:19 07/14/04 Wed
Completely agree that the responsiblity of what happened in the 70s and 80s lies with HC. My point is that the IVY league sold Father Brooks and others a model of the "true spirit of college athletics" and in bowing to the pressure and attempting to follow the mold of the Ivies we tried to become something we were, and are, never capable of becoming. We will never be truly accepted among the "old boys" of the Ivy league because we are a jesuit college, and it is just frustrating that between a school whos had a storied athletic tradition with many ecac schools and Quinn., a school with none, we got slapped in the face, with the "conditional" clause. Maybe Quinnipiac too should have been given a "conditional on you actually displaying the funds to build an arena" clause.
I am not blaming the Ivies for the state of HC athletics I am simply saying that this decision defies commons sense and reason on their part, reagardless of past relationships HC should have had the upper hand, and factoring in those traditions it should have been unanimous (among the ivies at least).
...and this makes me believe even more that Regan just simply does not represent HC in the way it deserves. He should be gone.
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Re: All is not lost -- JRGNYR, 15:44:54 07/14/04 Wed
I agree with you that Brooks bought into something that was ultimately going to fail.
As far as HC's tradition and being affiliated with the Ivies...that most likely did help HC's application, but I didn't think that would have been enough to get HC an invitation, and clearly it wasn't. It could not have hurt, but again I think anybody who thought HC could charm their way into the ECAC simply based on its relationship with the Ivies was deluding themselves.
I know this isn't a popular sentiment on the board right now, but the ECAC did make the right decision based on hockey reasons. Somebody rightly pointed out on the USCHO.com board, I think, that the ECAC doesn't need another institution to boost its academic profile.
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Re: All is not lost -- HCsader2207, 15:53:54 07/14/04 Wed
I do not pretend to be a Hockey expert so...
is Quinnipiac really that much better of a hockey program than HC to boost the hockey profile of the ECAC, while taking the acknowledged hit in acadamic affiliation?
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Re: All is not lost -- JRGNYR, 16:11:57 07/14/04 Wed
With scholarships, QU's potential to have an impact on ECAC in a hockey sense is larger than HC's.
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Re: All is not lost -- zipp, 16:15:45 07/14/04 Wed
I'd argue that a QU program already with scholarships(10) has far less potential than a HC progam going from AH with no scholarships to ECAC with scholarships.
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Re: All is not lost -- Hchockeyalum, 21:17:55 07/14/04 Wed
HCsader2207 properly defines the issue for the ECAC...but they don't seemingly get it.
Once again, boys and girls, HC 2 titles, no scholarships, Quinnipiac 1 title, 11 scholarships. What does that tell you about the recruiting power of HC vs. QU, Mercy, etc.
Remember, that D1 hockey players don't grow on trees, even in Canada. While there are still players out there in Canada and Europe that are now, more than ever, willing to attend university, rather than play Canadian or European junior hockey, there are a limited number. What players will be willing to attend QU on scholarship that have an offer to play at another D1 school? No matter what, QU will always get the academic dregs of the talent pool. And guess what happens to your program when that happens?
I'll stick with HC for now with their Canadian financial aid program (maybe they can extend that to Europe) and work on HC giving scholarships down the road. In time, HC with 18 scholarships would easily be an equal to any ECAC school.
QU will be battling with Union and whoever else occupies the cellar for quite some time, until they get impatient and start taking those who don't belong in any college. Then we'll see how much the ECAC likes them.
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Re: All is not lost -- HCGrad, 21:48:29 07/14/04 Wed
To me, those stats say that Coach Pearl and the rest of the staff work harder than QU. How do you think hockey recruits are going to look at HC now?
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