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Date Posted: 15:03:46 07/14/04 Wed
Author: HCsader2207
Subject: Re: All is not lost
In reply to:
JRGNYR
's message, "All is not lost" on 14:50:36 07/14/04 Wed
you're right, all is not lost...
but that does not make the sting of being second to Quinnipiac(!!!) among a committee of schools for which twenty five years ago we sacraficed our place in the upper tier of D1 athletics any less painful and embarassing. As other posts have sated this just cements one more time that the decision to become the underappreciated stepchild of the ivy league has done nothing for the school, athletically and academically.
The alums and students have a right to feel outrage and post their laments because the remarkable memories of the past just make the present that much more painful.
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Re: All is not lost -- JRGNYR, 15:11:41 07/14/04 Wed
I still don't think it's fair to think the Ivies sold us down the river on this one, especially since we don't know the facts. Unless somebody here has inside knowledge of what each Ivy institution voted or said regarding inviting HC to the conference, it is not right to point fingers at them.
That said, if you want to be angry about this, go ahead and do so. If I may speculate for a minute, the immediate thought in my mind is the HC administration has dragged its feet with the ECAC regarding moving up the women's program, and it finally got to the point where the ECAC is saying "If you want in so badly, then you absolutely have to upgrade the women's program." It is not unlike the Patriot League saying to an institution "If you want to join us in football, you have to join us in everything." It's not entirely the same, since the ECAC carries more weight in college hockey than the Patriot League does in college basketball/football. That goes without saying.
And if you want to somehow link this to Fr. Brooks and what happened in the late 70s, go right ahead. But I don't see how that is quite justified. If we are to believe that the women's program is all that is holding HC back from future entry to ECAC, then to me all this has done is confirmed the obvious.
The Ivies don't owe us a thing. Our own administration screwed with the competitiveness of the sports programs in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. I think we need to start assigning blame where it is due. Yes, Fr. Brooks bowed to Ivy League pressure. Ultimately he pulled the trigger on the decisions that castrated the basketball and football programs though. Nobody from Harvard or Yale or Dartmouth came in and assumed control of HC's destiny for long enough to alter HC's athletic future. The responsibility ultimately lies with HC, then and now.
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Re: All is not lost -- HCsader2207, 15:32:19 07/14/04 Wed
Completely agree that the responsiblity of what happened in the 70s and 80s lies with HC. My point is that the IVY league sold Father Brooks and others a model of the "true spirit of college athletics" and in bowing to the pressure and attempting to follow the mold of the Ivies we tried to become something we were, and are, never capable of becoming. We will never be truly accepted among the "old boys" of the Ivy league because we are a jesuit college, and it is just frustrating that between a school whos had a storied athletic tradition with many ecac schools and Quinn., a school with none, we got slapped in the face, with the "conditional" clause. Maybe Quinnipiac too should have been given a "conditional on you actually displaying the funds to build an arena" clause.
I am not blaming the Ivies for the state of HC athletics I am simply saying that this decision defies commons sense and reason on their part, reagardless of past relationships HC should have had the upper hand, and factoring in those traditions it should have been unanimous (among the ivies at least).
...and this makes me believe even more that Regan just simply does not represent HC in the way it deserves. He should be gone.
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Re: All is not lost -- JRGNYR, 15:44:54 07/14/04 Wed
I agree with you that Brooks bought into something that was ultimately going to fail.
As far as HC's tradition and being affiliated with the Ivies...that most likely did help HC's application, but I didn't think that would have been enough to get HC an invitation, and clearly it wasn't. It could not have hurt, but again I think anybody who thought HC could charm their way into the ECAC simply based on its relationship with the Ivies was deluding themselves.
I know this isn't a popular sentiment on the board right now, but the ECAC did make the right decision based on hockey reasons. Somebody rightly pointed out on the USCHO.com board, I think, that the ECAC doesn't need another institution to boost its academic profile.
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Re: All is not lost -- HCsader2207, 15:53:54 07/14/04 Wed
I do not pretend to be a Hockey expert so...
is Quinnipiac really that much better of a hockey program than HC to boost the hockey profile of the ECAC, while taking the acknowledged hit in acadamic affiliation?
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Re: All is not lost -- JRGNYR, 16:11:57 07/14/04 Wed
With scholarships, QU's potential to have an impact on ECAC in a hockey sense is larger than HC's.
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Re: All is not lost -- zipp, 16:15:45 07/14/04 Wed
I'd argue that a QU program already with scholarships(10) has far less potential than a HC progam going from AH with no scholarships to ECAC with scholarships.
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