A difficult question -- Adilbrand Noblesword's Hall of Warriors

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Date Posted: 15:15:35 02/25/02 Mon
Author: Omega
Subject: A difficult question
In reply to: mvd 's message, "Religion (Omega?)" on 11:17:43 02/21/02 Thu

You have asked a difficult question. The answer to it isn't easy, because religions, despite what many think about various ones (Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Bahai, et. al) are also diverse in their origins and development and traditions, and so what is the answer at one point is not the answer at another, or for one religion or another.

I think that most religions developed a sense of imperfection in our existence now, but I do not think all of them held it at their formation. Judaism, for example, only at a later date developed the Adam and Eve story (later than the formation of the early forms of the religion). Rather, I think most religions start out with an awareness that there is something "out there" which in one sense can be said to be "greater than us" (although some religions will say we are also one with it). Then something gives them an awareness that things are not all perfect with life, and this usually comes about through some form of persecution or great tragedy that brings to question, "Why did this all happen." Combine the two -- that there is something greater out there, but we live in a world with tragedy and suffering, and I think this produces the inquisitiveness in us to try to find answers. Religion, which seeks to know in some sense the beyond, and our relationship with it, thus also tries to find some answer, some theodicy. This leads to ideas that suggest we are, in some ways now, not even to the perfection of our potential -- that is really what original sin itself is about --it isn't necessarily about the idea of some "sin" that passes down and which makes us evil, as much as that our original or perfected nature needs to be re-obtained, and what causes tragedy or suffering in life, needs to be removed.

With this, I would say many religions saw connected to this the need for some kind of moral perfection within and without: it is not just that we, as individuals, need to be awakened (or enlightened) so that we can indeed, be better indviduals; it is the communal whole, and each part of the cosmos is in some way interdependent with each other, and so in that wholeness the perfection is needed, and just as within ourselves we are able to perform some sort of way to change ourselves and perfect ourselves, we become also the means and mode within the cosmos to reshape and fix the cosmos, and in this way to also bring a better relationship between ourselves, the cosmos, and with the other.

In the end, most religions also assert that there is some connection also with the beyond and the cosmos -- and that often that the process of englightenment is also the process which we come to realize this in perfection: not only do we need to understand this, we need to comprehend it, and know it within our very fiber of being. That is enlightenment, and when, to put in Buddhist terms, samsara is seen really as Nirvana, and Nirvana as samsara. Or within hindu terms, "Thou art that." Christianity also realizes this, but it is much more esoteric within Christianity.

Judaism is strange in this regards, because the original foundation seems to be more primitive in conception. Immortality for example was not personal immortality, but cultural immortality through descendents and being remembered by them. This is also the case, to some extent, with Egyptian religion -- where it is said that once one's name was totally forgotten, you could really be said to be dead, and thus the monumnents were also made to preserve one's memory in the world.. so that in one sense, you would truly be able to be immortal.

But I would expect these side-thoughts in religions, like Judaism and Egyptian thought, which often didn't focus on the perfection of the individual, still have the basic principles within that accept this aspect of life, even if not as the primary concern. It is why Judaism was able to develop to something more than its early (and I would say, tribal) beginnings.

I hope that helps a bit -- though it is brief, and really would require a lot of exploration in various religions to show where your question has truth, and where it is sometimes not always the case (though I think, in some respects, related).

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Replies:

A thoughtful answer -- mvd, 16:15:55 02/25/02 Mon
- Another tough question, with only brief thoughts -- Omega, 14:40:58 02/26/02 Tue
  - I have a question, too. -- Adilbrand, 12:23:27 02/27/02 Wed
    - It is a good notion -- mvd, 12:34:00 02/27/02 Wed
    - There are many reasons -- Omega, 13:29:06 03/02/02 Sat