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Date Posted: 19:04:46 05/20/99 Thu
Author: daniel
Subject: Re: time & foreknowledge
In reply to: Kevin 's message, "Re: time & foreknowledge" on 15:08:40 05/20/99 Thu

> You have been given numerous examples of the
> scientific reasons for a belief that our time is part
> of this universe. You refuse to accept physical
> reality. Fine by me.
>
> You have been given numerous Scripture passages which
> support the position that God is the Lord and Creator
> of our time line. You dismiss the Scripture because
> it is not what you want to hear. Inspite of your
> admittance that this is the view of most believers.
> I understand.
>
> I understand that you have been programmed by the YE
> cult and it will take time to deprogram you. I am a
> patient fellow. I'll stay with you until we beat this
> thing :-)
>
> You remind me of the proud mother sitting in the
> bleachers watching her son in the marching band as she
> exclaims "Look my little Johnny is the only one
> marching in step".
>
> Seriously, since the purpose of this forum is to
> develop a working OEC model, I propose the following.
> It resolves the difficulties you mention and yet it
> maintains the concept of God's Lordship of time;
>
> God who is outside of our time (no beginning and no
> end), created the heaven and the earth, "In the
> beginning". This beginning includes our time line.
> God then subjected himself to operate within our time
> line with regard to man. His choice. Jesus was
> chosen before time to be the ransom for our sins.
> Various other decisions were made before our time was
> created as well. But, all the prophecies given
> directly to man were given in time, as such they are
> subject to it. So failed prophecies occur as God
> appears to change His mind, in time, yet God is
> unchanging outside of our time.
>
> Now we know Daniel will not accept this proposal.
> That's OK, you can't please everyone. What about the
> rest of you silent guys - any objections? Seriously,
> speak up or this will end up being my working model
> and not ours.
>
> Peace
> Kevin> You have been given numerous examples of the
> scientific reasons for a belief that our time is part
> of this universe. You refuse to accept physical
> reality. Fine by me.
>

You are asserting that which I have never said. Why do you do that?

I have never said that OUR time is not part of this universe. Please provide a direct quote.

> You have been given numerous Scripture passages which
> support the position that God is the Lord and Creator
> of our time line. You dismiss the Scripture because
> it is not what you want to hear. Inspite of your
> admittance that this is the view of most believers.
> I understand.
>


This is true. I am the one that gave you the timeline. God created the heavens and the earth. Creation was the beginning of OUR timeline.

If you look back at my posts, you will see several "?" marks. They are strategically placed for a reason. Notice how you avoid them like the plague. They are not rhetorical.

As far as most believers go, I am doing a little research on what believers believed about YEC. Amazing that I am having a hard time finding any dissenting votes until just a few hundred years ago. Hmmm. Maybe you can explain this reality.


> I understand that you have been programmed by the YE
> cult and it will take time to deprogram you. I am a
> patient fellow. I'll stay with you until we beat this
> thing :-)
>

I am trying to program the YEC's to understand that their position is solid not only as it relates to origins but that literalism is quite necessary to understand difficult or problematic passages. When I told the director of RMCF about the concept of God repenting and that he changes his mind, he nearly flipped. But that is only because of the greek mysticism that invaded popular christian teachers like Augustine. He boldly proclaimed that it was necessary to know the scriptures based on Platonic Rationalism. Ouch! You too have been bitten.

> You remind me of the proud mother sitting in the
> bleachers watching her son in the marching band as she
> exclaims "Look my little Johnny is the only one
> marching in step".
>
> Seriously, since the purpose of this forum is to
> develop a working OEC model, I propose the following.
> It resolves the difficulties you mention and yet it
> maintains the concept of God's Lordship of time;
>
> God who is outside of our time (no beginning and no
> end), created the heaven and the earth, "In the
> beginning". This beginning includes our time line.
> God then subjected himself to operate within our time
> line with regard to man. His choice. Jesus was
> chosen before time to be the ransom for our sins.
> Various other decisions were made before our time was
> created as well. But, all the prophecies given
> directly to man were given in time, as such they are
> subject to it. So failed prophecies occur as God
> appears to change His mind, in time, yet God is
> unchanging outside of our time.
>

That is a very nice story. But exactly where do you find scriptural reference to support your claim?
The above sounds like a very mass escoteric belief.


> Now we know Daniel will not accept this proposal.
> That's OK, you can't please everyone. What about the
> rest of you silent guys - any objections? Seriously,
> speak up or this will end up being my working model
> and not ours.
>

As I said before, you can't come up with one.

You are doomed to failure because it will be impossible to remain consistent.

Whether you agree with my approach or not, it is consistent.

Daniel

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